What think ye of Ezekiel's Temple?

[ebedmelech]

Jesus was given the authority, but He has yet to take it up. Plainly obvious to all but those who live in their own little world.

It simply means our citizenship is not of this 'present' world. The devil was given to rule today's kingdoms on earth (except where God does not allow it). See Luke 4 with Satan offering the kingdoms of this world to Jesus, as he said they were given him, which is true. The devil is still loose roaming the earth today, the kingdoms of this world not yet having become those of The Father and His Son (1 Peter 5:8; Revelation 11:15).

In the world to come, Jesus will sit upon the throne of David, reigning over the 12 tribes of Israel, the Church reigning with Him, on earth like Rev.5 reveals. David's throne is an earthly throne.

The new Jerusalem is coming down here, to earth. It's pointing to the heavenly dimension being joined in the same time and space with the earthly dimension. Afterall, Genesis 2 does show that God's Garden of Eden, which is now in Heaven with God, was once established upon this earth.

So can the both of you refute Colossians 1:13-20?:
13 For He rescued us from the domain of darkness, and transferred us to the kingdom of His beloved Son,
14 in whom we have redemption, the forgiveness of sins.
15 He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of all creation.
16 For by Him all things were created, both in the heavens and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or rulers or authorities—all things have been created through Him and for Him.
17 He is before all things, and in Him all things hold together.
18 He is also head of the body, the church; and He is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead, so that He Himself will come to have first place in everything.
19 For it was the Father’s good pleasure for all the fullness to dwell in Him,
20 and through Him to reconcile all things to Himself, having made peace through the blood of His cross; through Him, I say, whether things on earth or things in heaven.

This passage makes it very clear that Jesus is over EVERYTHING...NOTHING is left uncovered.

Please show where this passage says Jesus "hasn't taken up the reign yet"...OR...that "He has given the devil the rule over them". For even in Job it shows that despite Satan being able do things He is subject to the Father (Jesus has taken the reign from the Father since His resurrection). Satan
needed Gods permission to assault Job and God set the perimeters of what Satan could do.

Satan has Peter locked up...Jesus sends an angel to set him free.

We see Jesus interupt the world as Saul (Paul), is heading to persecute more Christians, certainly being used of Satan...and Jesus reveals Himself to Paul, converts him, and uses him to write 13 NT books...(14...if you believes as I do, that Paul wrote Hebrews).

 

[keras]

Please show where this passage says Jesus "hasn't taken up the reign yet"...OR...that "He has given the devil the rule over them"

1 Peter 5:8-9
Jesus has been given the authority, as He was found to be worthy. Psalms 2:7-9 His Judgement of the nations is soon to happen and later, when He Returns, He will reign over all the world.

 

[ebedmelech]

1 Peter 5:8-9
Jesus has been given the authority, as He was found to be worthy. Psalms 2:7-9 His Judgement of the nations is soon to happen and later, when He Returns, He will reign over all the world.

Very poor response Keras. That very passage is telling you that Jesus will fulfill the Fathers will. It's telling believers to be firm in their faith in all that they do and continue in the Father's will. It' doesn't tell them Satan rules...it tells them to withstand Satan. You're cherry picking the scriptures for your theology Keras. Try reading Ephesians 3:1-13 and then Ephesians 6:10-18.

Think about this...as you read the Old Testament you see God allowing things to happen for HIS PURPOSES. As well you see God tell Moses how Israel would fall and commit spiritual adultery with other nations as well as break their covenant with Him. Yet you would never say that God was not ruling over this earth as well as heaven.

It's the same way with Christ ruling after His resurrection. Jesus said He and the Father are ONE and He ALWAYS does the will of the Father. We see Satan thinking He has the upper hand at the crucifixion only to find it opened the flood gates of salvation to the nations!

Just as God is omniscient, omnipotent. and omnipresent, so is Jesus as He received the reign from the Father. Our Lord is choosing out a people for His name Keras, and when He is done He will put Satan down. This is what 1 Corinthians 15:20-28 is telling us...but you're not grasping that.

1 Timothy 6:11-16 Keras!

 

[Davy]

So can the both of you refute Colossians 1:13-20?:
13 For He rescued us from the domain of darkness, and transferred us to the kingdom of His beloved Son,
14 in whom we have redemption, the forgiveness of sins.
15 He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of all creation.
16 For by Him all things were created, both in the heavens and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or rulers or authorities—all things have been created through Him and for Him.
17 He is before all things, and in Him all things hold together.
18 He is also head of the body, the church; and He is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead, so that He Himself will come to have first place in everything.
19 For it was the Father’s good pleasure for all the fullness to dwell in Him,
20 and through Him to reconcile all things to Himself, having made peace through the blood of His cross; through Him, I say, whether things on earth or things in heaven.

This passage makes it very clear that Jesus is over EVERYTHING...NOTHING is left uncovered.

Please show where this passage says Jesus "hasn't taken up the reign yet"...OR...that "He has given the devil the rule over them". For even in Job it shows that despite Satan being able do things He is subject to the Father (Jesus has taken the reign from the Father since His resurrection). Satan
needed Gods permission to assault Job and God set the perimeters of what Satan could do.

Satan has Peter locked up...Jesus sends an angel to set him free.

We see Jesus interupt the world as Saul (Paul), is heading to persecute more Christians, certainly being used of Satan...and Jesus reveals Himself to Paul, converts him, and uses him to write 13 NT books...(14...if you believes as I do, that Paul wrote Hebrews).

I'll tell ya what. Go to the main headquarters of ISIS and preach to them. Afterall, our Lord Jesus said He gave us power over all... our enemies! God might even allow you to convert one or two of them!

That Colossians 1 passage is about our Lord Jesus' SPIRITUAL KINGDOM that is NOT of the flesh in this present world. Don't you remember Paul's teaching in Ephesians 2 about us being foundation stones in the spiritual temple? That has nothing to do with a physical Church building we may meet in. It has nothing to do with any outward religious organization of men. It only has to do with the body of Christ, His many-membered body of all peoples and nations. That's a kingdom no man of this world can corrupt. Only a believer can choose to fall away from it to something else. The spiritual temple cannot be corrupted by anyone, not even the devil. That is what Jesus brought upon His cross.

However, that's not all.

There is plenty of Bible Scripture that reveals in 'the world to come', He is going to sit upon the throne of David and rule over the nations with "a rod of iron". He has not done that yet, because it is not yet time for that. That will begin at His 2nd coming.

Therefore, no Bible believing Christian should ever... confuse this present world with the world to come. They are two totally separate times.

 

[BABerean2]

There is plenty of Bible Scripture that reveals in 'the world to come', He is going to sit upon the throne of David and rule over the nations with "a rod of iron". He has not done that yet, because it is not yet time for that. That will begin at His 2nd coming.

Based on Psalm 2, He will destroy the flawed pottery with the rod of Iron.

.

 

[ebedmelech]

I'll tell ya what. Go to the main headquarters of ISIS and preach to them. Afterall, our Lord Jesus said He gave us power over all... our enemies! God might even allow you to convert one or two of them!

That Colossians 1 passage is about our Lord Jesus' SPIRITUAL KINGDOM that is NOT of the flesh in this present world. Don't you remember Paul's teaching in Ephesians 2 about us being foundation stones in the spiritual temple? That has nothing to do with a physical Church building we may meet in. It has nothing to do with any outward religious organization of men. It only has to do with the body of Christ, His many-membered body of all peoples and nations. That's a kingdom no man of this world can corrupt. Only a believer can choose to fall away from it to something else. The spiritual temple cannot be corrupted by anyone, not even the devil. That is what Jesus brought upon His cross.

However, that's not all.

There is plenty of Bible Scripture that reveals in 'the world to come', He is going to sit upon the throne of David and rule over the nations with "a rod of iron". He has not done that yet, because it is not yet time for that. That will begin at His 2nd coming.

Therefore, no Bible believing Christian should ever... confuse this present world with the world to come. They are two totally separate times.

Thanks for the sermon but you don't really have a point...you're kinda tap dancing. I understand we look to the world to come knowing this world is temporal...therefore the reality is the spiritual. This is equally why we're here and why God chose us out of this world.

When Jesus spoke to the woman at the well in John 4, He made it very clear it has NOTHING to do with Jerusalem, or mountains being where we worship God...just as you said..it's not about a building.

How many times does Paul have to say "HE IS"...before you get it the fact that HE IS? Does "in heaven and on earth" cover enough for you?

 

[Davy]

Thanks for the sermon but you don't really have a point...you're kinda tap dancing. I understand we look to the world to come knowing this world is temporal...therefore the reality is the spiritual. This is equally why we're here and why God chose us out of this world.

When Jesus spoke to the woman at the well in John 4, He made it very clear it has NOTHING to do with Jerusalem, or mountains being where we worship God...just as you said..it's not about a building.

How many times does Paul have to say "HE IS"...before you get it the fact that HE IS? Does "in heaven and on earth" cover enough for you?

It's actually you that's just 'not getting it', because you obviously have forgotten why Jesus was born into this present world through woman, which has everything to do with determining who will live with Him and The Father for the future eternity, and who will not. And as He already said...

Ps 37:9-11
9 For evildoers shall be cut off: but those that wait upon the LORD, they shall inherit the earth.

10 For yet a little while, and the wicked shall not be: yea, thou shalt diligently consider his place, and it shall not be.

11 But the meek shall inherit the earth; and shall delight themselves in the abundance of peace.
KJV

 

[ebedmelech]

It's actually you that's just 'not getting it', because you obviously have forgotten why Jesus was born into this present world through woman, which has everything to do with determining who will live with Him and The Father for the future eternity, and who will not. And as He already said...

Ps 37:9-11
9 For evildoers shall be cut off: but those that wait upon the LORD, they shall inherit the earth.

10 For yet a little while, and the wicked shall not be: yea, thou shalt diligently consider his place, and it shall not be.

11 But the meek shall inherit the earth; and shall delight themselves in the abundance of peace.
KJV

This doesn't make your point. The fact is Jesus reigns now and is in control of everything that happens, yet you think Satan is in control of this world.
Meantime Jesus NEVER leaves or forsakes us, so how can Satan be in control of the world?

 

[Davy]

This doesn't make your point. The fact is Jesus reigns now and is in control of everything that happens, yet you think Satan is in control of this world.
Meantime Jesus NEVER leaves or forsakes us, so how can Satan be in control of the world?

You need to understand more about what God showed in Isaiah 10, using "the Assyrian" as a type for Satan himself. God is using Satan as a punishing rod upon the rebellious.

Thus goes your false accusation against me, for I never said nor implied anywhere that our Heavenly Father and His Son are not in ultimate control over all things, in both Heaven and earth. That includes over Satan too by they way, which is why God calls him the "rod of Mine anger".

So, is Jesus in control of ISIS today? Yeah, but it's obviously to work God's negative side of His Plan, using the vessels of destruction. Now if you believe that kind of working is evidence of His Promised Salvation in final, then you have gotten into one of Satan's beth-avens (house of vanity), and not a Church belonging to Christ (called a Beth-El = House of God).

 

[ebedmelech]

You need to understand more about what God showed in Isaiah 10, using "the Assyrian" as a type for Satan himself. God is using Satan as a punishing rod upon the rebellious.

Absolutely not. That's flawed theology. The Assyrian is the nation of Assyria. It's not "a type" of anything as you say, and nothing in the passage even alludes to that. God calls Assyria "the rod of His anger” and he uses them to take take Israel into exile. So no...that's not correct. Read 2 Kings 15-17 because that’s exactly what God is saying in Isaiah 10. He did the same thing with Babylon to take Judah into captivity. This “the Assyrian” idea is wholly flawed. This is something God told Moses would happen in Deuteronomy 31:14-18.

Thus goes your false accusation against me, for I never said nor implied anywhere that our Heavenly Father and His Son are not in ultimate control over all things, in both Heaven and earth. That includes over Satan too by they way, which is why God calls him the "rod of Mine anger".

Well…explain yourself in this you wrote:
“See Luke 4 with Satan offering the kingdoms of this world to Jesus, as he said they were given him, which is true. The devil is still loose roaming the earth today, the kingdoms of this world not yet having become those of The Father and His Son (1 Peter 5:8; Revelation 11:15).”

That’s from your post #615!

So, is Jesus in control of ISIS today? Yeah, but it's obviously to work God's negative side of His Plan, using the vessels of destruction. Now if you believe that kind of working is evidence of His Promised Salvation in final, then you have gotten into one of Satan's beth-avens (house of vanity), and not a Church belonging to Christ (called a Beth-El = House of God).

Jesus is in control of EVERYTHING!!! It all serves the purpose of The Father and the Son. Go back to the OT and read how God used Israel’s adversaries to discipline them in the time of the Judges and on up until Rome exiled them after destroying the temple. Yes…Jesus is in control of Isis and they will do nothing that is not in His will...It's called OMNISCIENCE Davy...and in case you didn't know Jesus possesses that attribute!

One more time read Colossians 1:15-20…see if you can find where a single thing is not under Jesus’ control!

 

[Davy]

Absolutely not. That's flawed theology. The Assyrian is the nation of Assyria. It's not "a type" of anything as you say, and nothing in the passage even alludes to that. God calls Assyria "the rod of His anger” and he uses them to take take Israel into exile. So no...that's not correct. Read 2 Kings 15-17 because that’s exactly what God is saying in Isaiah 10. He did the same thing with Babylon to take Judah into captivity. This “the Assyrian” idea is wholly flawed. This is something God told Moses would happen in Deuteronomy 31:14-18.

You're way behind then in your Bible study:

Isa 30:30-33
30 And the LORD shall cause His glorious voice to be heard, and shall shew the lighting down of His arm, with the indignation of His anger, and with the flame of a devouring fire, with scattering, and tempest, and hailstones.
31 For through the voice of the LORD shall the Assyrian be beaten down, which smote with a rod.
32 And in every place where the grounded staff shall pass, which the LORD shall lay upon him, it shall be with tabrets and harps: and in battles of shaking will he fight with it.
33 For Tophet is ordained of old; yea, for the king it is prepared; he hath made it deep and large: the pile thereof is fire and much wood; the breath of the LORD, like a stream of brimstone, doth kindle it.
KJV

There is only the devil and his angels which the future "lake of fire" is prepared for; that's the meaning of symbolic "Tophet" in the above. God is linking that title of "the Assyrian" with the devil himself which symbolic Tophet has been ordained of old for.

Matt 25:41
41 Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, "Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels:
KJV

Well…explain yourself in this you wrote:
“See Luke 4 with Satan offering the kingdoms of this world to Jesus, as he said they were given him, which is true. The devil is still loose roaming the earth today, the kingdoms of this world not yet having become those of The Father and His Son (1 Peter 5:8; Revelation 11:15).”

That’s from your post #615!

Be glad to explain it to you, IF you first can explain why God called the locust army His army He sent as written in the Book of Joel:

Joel 2:25
25 And I will restore to you the years that the locust hath eaten, the cankerworm, and the caterpiller, and the palmerworm, My great army which I sent among you.
KJV


In your zeal you have forgotten to actually pay attention to the Scriptures as written, and instead fallen to your own thinking about our Heavenly Father and His Son's ways.

 

[seventysevens]

Jesus is in control of EVERYTHING!!! It all serves the purpose of The Father and the Son. .
Yes…Jesus is in control of Isis and they will do nothing that is not in His will...It's called OMNISCIENCE Davy...and in case you didn't know Jesus possesses that attribute!

So just because Jesus knows , you say it is His will ?
you call all the innocent people that die for no reason discipline ?
Tell us how that applies to Sept 11 2001 , the numerous serial killers and rapists , the numerous school shootings , the Las Vegas shooting spree - people that go into churches and shoot and kill people in church praying -

IT IS Gods WORD that tells us that satan has dominion over the earth and will continue to have dominion until Jesus returns to establish his Kingdom on earth , then Jesus will take dominion from satan and cast him into the pit

 

[BABerean2]

So just because Jesus knows , you say it is His will ?
you call all the innocent people that die for no reason discipline ?
Tell us how that applies to Sept 11 2001 , the numerous serial killers and rapists , the numerous school shootings , the Las Vegas shooting spree - people that go into churches and shoot and kill people in church praying -

IT IS Gods WORD that tells us that satan has dominion over the earth and will continue to have dominion until Jesus returns to establish his Kingdom on earth , then Jesus will take dominion from satan and cast him into the pit

Satan is like an animal in a cage with a scheduled execution date.
His days are numbered.

All of those on this planet are in the cage with Satan.

Those who do not belong to Christ have no way to defend themselves against Satan.

However, even though we are in the same cage, Satan does not have control of us. We can be killed, but because our soul does not belong to him, he is like the animal that cannot eat us. Our soul belongs to Christ.

When they cut Paul's head off, he was not worried, because he knew where he was going when it happened.


Rom_12:1 I beseech you therefore, brethren, by the mercies of God, that ye present your bodies a living sacrifice, holy, acceptable unto God, which is your reasonable service.


Heb 11:36 Still others had trial of mockings and scourgings, yes, and of chains and imprisonment.
Heb 11:37 They were stoned, they were sawn in two, were tempted, were slain with the sword. They wandered about in sheepskins and goatskins, being destitute, afflicted, tormented—
Heb 11:38 of whom the world was not worthy. They wandered in deserts and mountains, in dens and caves of the earth.
Heb 11:39 And all these, having obtained a good testimony through faith, did not receive the promise,
Heb 11:40 God having provided something better for us, that they should not be made perfect apart from us.

Our reward is not here.
This world is not my home.
.

 

[seventysevens]

Satan is like an animal in a cage with a scheduled execution date.
His days are numbered.

.

LOL NONE of what you said is about the matter at hand - unless you think that Jesus is in control of killing people while they pray to Jesus in their own church .
God gave satan dominion over the earth and will take it back from him when Jesus returns- yes satan days are numbered- but he still has dominion and has had it since it was taken from Adam

 

[jgr]

LOL NONE of what you said is about the matter at hand - unless you think that Jesus is in control of killing people while they pray to Jesus in their own church .
God gave satan dominion over the earth and will take it back from him when Jesus returns- yes satan days are numbered- but he still has dominion and has had it since it was taken from Adam

Did God give Satan dominion over your soul?

 

[Davy]

This doesn't make your point. The fact is Jesus reigns now and is in control of everything that happens, yet you think Satan is in control of this world.
Meantime Jesus NEVER leaves or forsakes us, so how can Satan be in control of the world?

If what you believed were true, that our Lord Jesus is behind the evil that goes on in this present world, then there would be no distinction between His future Kingdom to come and how things are today in this world. And that would mean one with their head buried squarely in the sand.

 

[seventysevens]

Did God give Satan dominion over your soul?

No; he gave dominion over the earth - do you really believe that when Christians (that is born-again Christians that have Jesus as their Lord and savoir ) go inside their local church to pray to Jesus and a madman deranged by satan bursts into that church and murders the people there - that Jesus is in control of that incident ?
You clearly have not thought this through

 

[BABerean2]

but he still has dominion and has had it since it was taken from Adam

He did not have dominion over the Apostle Paul, after his conversion, and he does not have dominion over me.

.

 

[jgr]

No; he gave dominion over the earth - do you really believe that when Christians (that is born-again Christians that have Jesus as their Lord and savoir ) go inside their local church to pray to Jesus and a madman deranged by satan bursts into that church and murders the people there - that Jesus is in control of that incident ?
You clearly have not thought this through

Your soul is safe in Him. Can any madman change that?

 

[seventysevens]

Your soul is safe in Him. Can any madman change that?

Obviously then satan still has dominion over the earth - just as he tempted Jesus with it saying to Jesus that he would give Jesus dominion if Jesus would would serve satan - of course Jesus rebuked satan as he knows that the next time he returns he will have dominion over all the earth since he will take it away from satan when he returns and casts satan into the pit - satan has power over the unsaved and can still cause the saved to sin through temptation and that can cause even a saved person to become apostate - which is why the scriptures many times says to put on the whole amour of God because until the saved have received their glorified body they can be tempted to turn away from Christ