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What the bleep do we know?

gaijin178

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I don't know if this is the right place to post this so mods, please move this if it isn't appropriate.

Has anyone seen this movie? So far, it started in one theater in Seattle, WA and has only played in about a hundred theaters nationwide. I still haven't seen it yet but was wondering if anyone has. You can watch the trailers online and it talks about quantum physics and it's relationship with spirituality. I am very intrigued and will see it when it comes out on dvd as it isn't playing near me.

Thanks!
 

vedickings

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gaijin178 said:
I don't know if this is the right place to post this so mods, please move this if it isn't appropriate.

Has anyone seen this movie? So far, it started in one theater in Seattle, WA and has only played in about a hundred theaters nationwide. I still haven't seen it yet but was wondering if anyone has. You can watch the trailers online and it talks about quantum physics and it's relationship with spirituality. I am very intrigued and will see it when it comes out on dvd as it isn't playing near me.

Thanks!

I thought this was a great movie, it really get into the mind and emotions and how it works. Very intersting!!
 
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Eudaimonist

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I've seen this movie. Personally, I think it is a terrible movie. It's made by "Ramtha" and her followers. If you don't know, Ramtha is allegedly a spirit from "Atlantis" and "Lemuria" who is channelled by some woman who basically runs a kind of cult of personality. The "science" in the show is rather shaky, and highly speculative in places without warning. Don't waste your time with this movie.


eudaimonia,

Mark
 
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vedickings

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Eudaimonist said:
I've seen this movie. Personally, I think it is a terrible movie. It's made by "Ramtha" and her followers. If you don't know, Ramtha is allegedly a spirit from "Atlantis" and "Lemuria" who is channelled by some woman who basically runs a kind of cult of personality. The "science" in the show is rather shaky, and highly speculative in places without warning. Don't waste your time with this movie.


eudaimonia,

Mark

You didn't think it was intersting?
 
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vedickings

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AlanGurvey said:
Next time before i see a movie, i'll look around the forums i visit, Eudaimonist hit the nail on the head.

I think that the "What The Bleep Do We Know" has more to offer then the Bible IMO. In other words at less your mind is working!
 
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Scolaí

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As a movie, it failed.

As a documentary, there were some pretty interesting discussions on quantum physics and psychology. Though I am reluctant to agree wholeheartedly with some of the points made in the movie, I also realize that I have neither a PhD in quantum physics nor an MD in any field thus rendering my opinions rather pale in the face of all the qualified individuals who were interviewed for the film.

It is up to the individual see the movie and decide if it was a waste of time. To make statements like, "Don't waste your time with this movie" make it appear that you feel so highly about your opinion that you feel the need to protect others from their own. It's OK for people to come to their own conclusion without censorship or imbued bias.
 
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vedickings

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Scolaí said:
As a movie, it failed.

As a documentary, there were some pretty interesting discussions on quantum physics and psychology. Though I am reluctant to agree wholeheartedly with some of the points made in the movie, I also realize that I have neither a PhD in quantum physics nor an MD in any field thus rendering my opinions rather pale in the face of all the qualified individuals who were interviewed for the film.

It is up to the individual see the movie and decide if it was a waste of time. To make statements like, "Don't waste your time with this movie" make it appear that you feel so highly about your opinion that you feel the need to protect others from their own. It's OK for people to come to their own conclusion without censorship or imbued bias.

I agree with you:)
 
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arunma

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Scola&#237 said:
As a movie, it failed.

As a documentary, there were some pretty interesting discussions on quantum physics and psychology. Though I am reluctant to agree wholeheartedly with some of the points made in the movie, I also realize that I have neither a PhD in quantum physics nor an MD in any field thus rendering my opinions rather pale in the face of all the qualified individuals who were interviewed for the film.

It is up to the individual see the movie and decide if it was a waste of time. To make statements like, "Don't waste your time with this movie" make it appear that you feel so highly about your opinion that you feel the need to protect others from their own. It's OK for people to come to their own conclusion without censorship or imbued bias.

I've had four years of physics education (in fact I'd have a B.S. if I didn't have to spend an extra semester on my generals and classes for my math degree). That still doesn't make me an expert in the world of people with "Dr." before their name. But may I at least make a reasonably educated opinion?

I do not blame Mark for "censoring" the movie. I too would prefer that peole not see it. The reason I'm against the mere viewing of this film is because it gives the public misinformation. What the Bleep Do We Know? is a work of fiction that passes itself off as real science, and this misleads non-scientists into believing things that aren't true. Consider the water crystals, for instance. The movie claims that by saying nice or rude words to vials of water, one can cause the water to crystalize into asthetically appealing and unappealing patterns, respectively. If you actually dig deeper, you'll find that the "study" behind this was not scientific, no did it claim to be. The researchers did not do double-blind studies, so the person who scanned the frozen water's crystal structure knew which vials had been "treated nicely," and which ones had not. As such, the results were clearly tainted.

There were also many statements about physics in the film that were blatently false (it's been awhile since I saw it, but I believe they made claims about alternate universes, and other things of this nature). Attempts were made to connect quantum physics with spirituality. The problem is that science is not spiritual. To make science spiritual defeats the very purpose of science. Science does not answer the important questions, such as why we are here or what our purpose is in the universe. When people view this film, they misunderstand the place that science holds in the world. The result is statements like this:

Vedickings said:
I think that the "What The Bleep Do We Know" has more to offer then the Bible IMO. In other words at less your mind is working!

I mean no offense to the author. But this statement suggests that science and the Bible are addressing similar issues (unfortunately, it also suggests that the movie has something to do with genuine science). The film deludes people into thinking that they are learning real science by making statements that sound profound. Perhaps this is why people think that their "mind is working" when they watch it. Sorry, but that's not the case. As far as science goes, your mind is working when you're doing a least squares analysis of data that you've legitimately gathered in the lab. If you can sit in an easy chair and eat popcorn at the same time, what you're doing probably doesn't involve much mental work (not that there's anything wrong with popcorn). To view this film as genuine science is a mockery of science. As the addage goes, "10% inspiration, 90% perspiration." Real science requires sweat.

Please, people: understand that this is not real science. Real science is not as glamorous as this movie makes it look. Science does not consist of philosophizing about the meaning of life. It is about doing meticulous, disinterested, and dispassionate analysis of observable data, and making conclusions that can be reproduced. Science can do many great things for us, but it will not answer the more profound questions in life.
 
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Eudaimonist

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Scola&#237 said:
It is up to the individual see the movie and decide if it was a waste of time.

Of course it is, but I gave my personal recommendation.

To make statements like, "Don't waste your time with this movie" make it appear that you feel so highly about your opinion that you feel the need to protect others from their own. It's OK for people to come to their own conclusion without censorship or imbued bias.

Watch it if you want, but make sure to do some Internet reading of criticisms of the movie.

Take the movie with a grain -- no, a whole shaker -- of salt.


eudaimonia,

Mark
 
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9Harmony

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Hi,

I saw the first one, and thoroughly enjoyed it. Of course it's just alot of different opinions by various people, and as such cannot all be true, but to me, it really opened my mind and expanded my vision in how i view the world around me.

(Ramtha was just one of the perspectives offered, and i don't agree with her pov at all, but it's just one of many offered in the film)

I agree that the movie itself kind of gives the impression that they are presenting the info as fact. But i bought the DVD (it didn't make it to theatres here) and the interviews on the other side, explain better their purpose behind it. They basically just want people to be open to the incredible possibilities that exist around us, and look into things for themselves. Don't accept what they are presenting as fact, but use it as a starting point for our own investigations.

I ordered the new one, which comes out on DVD on Aug. 1st. And i for one am looking forward to it. :)
May even have a 'What the Bleep - Dinner party' which i've heard others have done. Watch the movie and discuss it over dinner. Should be fun.

Have a great day!
 
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Eudaimonist

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9Harmony said:
(Ramtha was just one of the perspectives offered, and i don't agree with her pov at all, but it's just one of many offered in the film)

Not all of the interviewees are followers of Ramtha, but her followers made and edited the film. I doubt there was anything in the film that contradicted the messages they wanted to send. (Indeed, one of the interviewees is reported to have complained that he was edited in such a way as to give a misleading slant on what he really thinks about physics.) It's not a "balanced" presentation of opposing views by any means.


eudaimonia,

Mark
 
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9Harmony

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Eudaimonist said:
Not all of the interviewees are followers of Ramtha, but her followers made and edited the film. I doubt there was anything in the film that contradicted the messages they wanted to send. (Indeed, one of the interviewees is reported to have complained that he was edited in such a way as to give a misleading slant on what he really thinks about physics.) It's not a "balanced" presentation of opposing views by any means.


eudaimonia,

Mark

Hi Mark,

do you know that for sure? Watching the interviews i didn't get the impression that they really followed anything inparticular. just curious...

thanks!
 
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NCStein

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9Harmony said:
Hi Mark,

do you know that for sure? Watching the interviews i didn't get the impression that they really followed anything inparticular. just curious...

thanks!
The three creators of the film are indeed members of Ramtha's School of Enlightenment.
 
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Eudaimonist

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9Harmony said:
do you know that for sure? Watching the interviews i didn't get the impression that they really followed anything inparticular. just curious...

Yes, this stuck out like a sore thumb for me. They certainly didn't go to any effort to give any non-mystical interpretations of QM. There is a definite worldview, what I call "quantum mysticism", in which all of the ideas presented fit neatly.

Didn't you notice that while different interviewees talked about different subjects, there was very little in the way of deep disagreement among them? They were artificially limiting the scope of the discussions, and could easily have included contrary views from physicists.

Now, I don't mind if they do this and are explicit about it. There's nothing wrong with a movie advocating a particular worldview. It's the subtle dishonesty of presenting this highly speculative worldview as "science" without warning the audience that they are speculating so heavily, and without being honest that they are presenting a kind of mystical doctrine coming from a New Age chaneller.


eudaimonia,

Mark
 
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9Harmony

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Thanks Mark, :)

i agree it could have been done better. It's good to be aware of these things to begin with.

i personally don't buy into everything just because someone says something, but i do know people who do, and that can be a dangerous thing. I agree.

so yeah, it's best to watch it with a 'shaker of salt', but i still think it's worth watching. ;)

take care!

And thanks again!

-Amy
 
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Arthra

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Well I saw the film and it's available on DVD... I thought it was artistically a very creative and innovative film and encouraged some interesting perspectives. I think it probably went over or through the heads of most movie goers.


- Art
 
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arunma

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Arthra said:
Well I saw the film and it's available on DVD... I thought it was artistically a very creative and innovative film and encouraged some interesting perspectives. I think it probably went over or through the heads of most movie goers.

I'm not so sure that it really did go over anyone's head. The movie seemed to throw out words like "quantum mechanics" merely in order to give viewers the false impression that the material being presented was especially technical and esoteric. The movie's title itself suggested that it covered an advanced topic, as did the final line "now ponder that!" After raising the viewers' expectations, the movie presented relatively simple (and scientifically false) material, so as to give reasonably intelligent non-scientists the impression that they were really grasping one of the more advanced topics in physics. As one poster has already put it, his "mind was working," and this illustrates the deceptive nature of the movie. I do not tolerate the misuse of science, neither when it comes from creation scientists, nor from these guys. And I don't think you'll find many scientists who feel differently. In science, the misportrayal of data is rightly seen as a sort of blasphemy.

I'm not trying to sound haughty or arrogant, but quantum mechanics is not kid's stuff. It is a mathematically rigorous and difficult subject, and one that requires a fairly strong understanding of classical physics. It's not something that you can pick up in an afternoon by watching an hour long video, even if said video contained accurate science. If anyone wants to learn real science, I would suggest this page:

http://www.ncsu.edu/felder-public/kenny/papers/quantum.html

This is a good description of quantum mechanics (intended for a non-scientist audience) which I think can be picked up by almost anyone here.
 
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