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And my point was that in this instance she wasn't included in that group (that does the will of the Father)
smh, no
If anybody deserves that title or honour, 2nd best, then it is John the Baptist, based on Matthew 11:11.
I hardly ever mention her, but when I do, I just call her by her name. So no, not really.Do you call her blessed?
oh, sorry, I forgot your original comment. But still, "who is my mother" does not imply anything about her sin. All it is saying is anyone who does the will of God (perfectly or imperfectly) is His mother.
My view is (I'm not saying it's infallible) that the apostles weren't born again until pentecost, so yes they weren't greater than John the Baptist until after that moment.
Who got a greater blessing? I really can't say nor do I really care tbh. Maybe we'll find out in heaven.
Is that not enough?
ah. you mean the people whose church didn't come to existence until around the 1400's?
I'm sorry but this is just biblical. If Mary was sinless then she could have just as easily been the one that God put on the cross. Jesus was and is the only sinless person that ever existed period!
syn·ec·do·cheThat may simply be an example of synecdoche, just like in Matthew 3:4-6
Now John wore a garment of camel’s hair, and a leather girdle around his waist; and his food was locusts and wild honey. Then went out to him Jerusalem and all Judea and all the region about the Jordan, and they were baptized by him in the river Jordan, confessing their sins.
Genesis 5:21-24 seems to imply that Enoch did not sin, which would further support "all" being synecdoche.
When Enoch had lived sixty-five years, he became the father of Methu′selah. Enoch walked with God after the birth of Methu′selah three hundred years, and had other sons and daughters. Thus all the days of Enoch were three hundred and sixty-five years. Enoch walked with God; and he was not, for God took him.
John the Baptist was filled with the Spirit from his mother's womb.
“for he shall be great in the sight of the Lord, and shall drink neither wine nor strong drink, and he shall be filled with the Holy Ghost, even from his mother’s womb.” Luke 1:15 (NCPB)
All believers in OT times and before were born-again. Possibly Mary was born again in the same sense John was and overcame Adam's sin residing in her. As born-again people do every day.
@WanderedHome @chevyontheriver @archer75 @Cis.jd @thecolorsblend @prodromos
Where does the doctrine that St Mary was sinless come from? Did the Nicene / pre-Nicene Fathers claim this? I don't think so.
But I will accept their opinion if you have references.
Yup, that text. And Jesus said one time that his parents and siblings were not his family but those who do the will of God are. You would think that if his mother was sinless he would have included her as part of his family that "does the will of God."
His mother was a sinner like the rest of us. She might have committed less sins than most humans
When Paul said No one, he meant no human born of a sin nature. Christ was born from the Holy Spirit so he had no sin nature so he didn't count.
I mean ALL have sinned is really all you need right? ALL means all, not 99% otherwise that would be most have sinned. All is inclusive of everyone, including Mary
there isnt an exception to "all" unless "all" doesnt mean what you think it means.Myself, I can only think of "all have sinned" text. Jesus was the only exception that I know of.
I mean ALL have sinned is really all you need right? ALL means all, not 99% otherwise that would be most have sinned. All is inclusive of everyone, including Mary
No, it wasn't just being sinless that allowed Jesus to save us, it was His being both God and man, because only by being both could Jesus destroy death. Everyone needs salvation from death and corruption, whether they have sinned or not. 1 Corinthians 20-26
But in fact Christ has been raised from the dead, the first fruits of those who have fallen asleep. For as by a man came death, by a man has come also the resurrection of the dead. For as in Adam all die, so also in Christ shall all be made alive. But each in his own order: Christ the first fruits, then at his coming those who belong to Christ. Then comes the end, when he delivers the kingdom to God the Father after destroying every rule and every authority and power. For he must reign until he has put all his enemies under his feet. The last enemy to be destroyed is death.
Mary was not God, nor the Messiah, thus your argument does not boil water.
Quite a statement BTS. Could I please ask you a question? Not trying to be disrespectful, but are you seeking God in your life? I will explain why I'm asking such a question if or when you respond.
Have a Blessed day!
There are no such texts. That's a conclusion that people have arrived at that isn't really supported by the texts themselves.What texts prove that Mary was a sinner?
The only way those New Testament passages apply is if she's a fool and an evildoer. They are quotes of Psalm 14; if you carefully study that psalm you'll see that it doesn't at all indicate that "every person without exception has sinned", and indeed there is no passage of scripture that says or implies anything of the sort.Myself, I can only think of "all have sinned" text.
Said at a time when people thought that men contributed the "seed," and women were merely incubators. I suspect that Augustine's views might be different had he known that the contribution was fifty-fifty. Nevertheless, Augustine was, himself, a sinner prone to error, nor was he uniquely qualified to opine on this point.I think it was Augustine who says, origianal sin was passed down from the male.
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