What texts prove that Mary was a sinner?

[Fidelibus]

Answer to each of these is Yes, as I am sure your answer is Yes, too.

Do you seek to do what is right?
Do you seek to do God's will?
Do you seek to understand Scriptures?
Do you pray to God daily?
Have you seek to look unto the Author and Finisher of your faith?
Do you do good unto others?
Do you respect God?
Do you believe in Christ?
Do you know about Theosis II Peter 1 "divine nature"
Do you seek to grow in the virtues of II Peter 1?
Are you useful to your family or others?

For you to be sure I would answer yes to each of these questions would require you to know the going on in my mind. Pretty sure you can't do that. So now you are sure of my answers, how about you addressing my post #352.

 

[Fidelibus]

Mary is not excluded from whom within all have sinned.

I'm sorry St. Cody, but that's not what I asked. Again, back on your post # 348 you quoted Scripture verse Romans 3:23. I will re-post it for you verbatim.

Romans 3:23 23 for all (including Mary, the mother of God) have sinned and fall short of the glory of God.

And I responded:

"Every Bible I have ever read, the words...... "including Mary, the mother of God" are not included in Romans 3:23. What version of the bible did you get this from, or are you just adding your own words to Scripture?"

Maybe I should have worded it differntly for you like........ every Bible I have ever read, the words...... "including Mary, the mother of God" are not found in Romans 3:23. So, what version of the bible are you quoting this passage from?


Now, as for Romans 3:23. "for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God." Is it your understanding and belief, that when this passage say's, "for all have sinned" that 'all' means 'all' as a absolute? If so, I am not sure if you have been keeping up with this thread, but the other Protestants that were asked the same question said yes, 'all is an absolute and that 'all' does mean 'all.' If they believed this to be so, I would ask a follow-up question. It may seem like an odd question to ask a Christian, but the question is a pertinent question in this discussion. "Do you seek God?" A simple yes or no would be suffice. Thanks!


Have a Blessed Day!

 

[Daniel Marsh]

Whoever thinks I did not answer a question please list the question as a seperate thread. I am dealing with the virus again.

 

[Daniel Marsh]

Whoever thinks I did not answer a question please list the question as a seperate thread. I am dealing with the virus again.

Thanks for the prayers Tiger. I am trying to organize the garage. What normally takes three hours is taking days.

 

[Fidelibus]

Whoever thinks I did not answer a question please list the question as a seperate thread.

I for one know for a fact that you (and another) failed to answer many questions in your very own thread. My question to you is,,,, why in the world would I even think about starting another thread (to ask the same questions) when you refuse to answer questions on a thread "YOU" started?? My suggestion to you would be, (if you are serious on answering any questions) address the questions of mine you avoided on post # 352. That would be a great start, in stead of starting a brand new thread.

I am dealing with the virus again.

Okay..... I for one, am not afraid to ask the question I am sure many are asking. The virus you are dealing with...... is it the China Virus.... the virus that originated from Wuhan, China, by the CCP? Also known as Covid 19?


Have a Blessed day!

 

[garee]

I understand that Catholic Apologetics claims she was not a sinner.

Romans says, all have sinned. We know Jesus to be an exception.

I have been taught at church that Mary was in fact a sinner.

I am simply wanting to hear both sides as a intelligent discussion.

The word and is sometimes not heard.

Not just all have sinned . all have sinned . . and. . . continue to fall short of the unseen glory of God.

Romans 3 :23 AMP since all have sinned and continually fall short of the glory of God,

Romans 3 :23ERV All have sinned and are not good enough to share God’s divine greatness

Romans 3 :23VOICE You see, all have sinned, and all their futile attempts to reach God in His glory fail.

Romans 3 :23WEB for all have sinned, and fall short of the glory of God;

Romans 3 :23WE All have done wrong and all are far from being as good as God.

No queen of heaven the pagan foundation.

 

[Daniel Marsh]

The word and is sometimes not heard.

Not just all have sinned . all have sinned . . and. . . continue to fall short of the unseen glory of God.

Romans 3 :23 AMP since all have sinned and continually fall short of the glory of God,

Romans 3 :23ERV All have sinned and are not good enough to share God’s divine greatness

Romans 3 :23VOICE You see, all have sinned, and all their futile attempts to reach God in His glory fail.

Romans 3 :23WEB for all have sinned, and fall short of the glory of God;

Romans 3 :23WE All have done wrong and all are far from being as good as God.

No queen of heaven the pagan foundation.

I agree with the text you quoted. I think the so-called pagan thing is misinformation.

"The Babylon Connection? shows that the claims about Babylonian origins often lack connection, takes a closer look at the oft-quoted The Two Babylons by Alexander Hislop, and provides some much needed clarification on this subject. Was Nimrod a deformed, ugly black man, married to Semiramis, a beautiful white woman with blue eyes and blond hair? Was Semiramis the originator of Soprano singing and priestly celibacy? Was she the mother of Tammuz? Is the cross a symbol of Tammuz? Are round communion wafers sun-symbols? Are candles, black clergy garments, the letters I.H.S., the fish symbol, halos, and church steeples of pagan origin? Does the Pope wear a crown with 666 on it? Was the papal mitre copied from the fishhead of Dagon? Does the Book of Revelation describe the Roman Catholic Church as "Mystery Babylon"?"

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0916938174/ref=dbs_a_def_rwt_hsch_vapi_taft_p1_i1

 

[garee]

I agree with the text you quoted. I think the so-called pagan thing is misinformation.

"The Babylon Connection? shows that the claims about Babylonian origins often lack connection, takes a closer look at the oft-quoted The Two Babylons by Alexander Hislop, and provides some much needed clarification on this subject. Was Nimrod a deformed, ugly black man, married to Semiramis, a beautiful white woman with blue eyes and blond hair? Was Semiramis the originator of Soprano singing and priestly celibacy? Was she the mother of Tammuz? Is the cross a symbol of Tammuz? Are round communion wafers sun-symbols? Are candles, black clergy garments, the letters I.H.S., the fish symbol, halos, and church steeples of pagan origin? Does the Pope wear a crown with 666 on it? Was the papal mitre copied from the fishhead of Dagon? Does the Book of Revelation describe the Roman Catholic Church as "Mystery Babylon"?"

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0916938174/ref=dbs_a_def_rwt_hsch_vapi_taft_p1_i1

What would color of skin or eyes have to do with all have sinned and continue to fall short of the glory of God? I am not getting your point. . Any congregation where you have hierarchy of venerable men lording it over the faith of other non venerable through oral traditions of kings, princes or fathers fits the mystery of Babylon . The abomination of desolation.

 

[Fidelibus]

The word and is sometimes not heard.

Not just all have sinned . all have sinned . . and. . . continue to fall short of the unseen glory of God.

Romans 3 :23 AMP since all have sinned and continually fall short of the glory of God,

Romans 3 :23ERV All have sinned and are not good enough to share God’s divine greatness

Romans 3 :23VOICE You see, all have sinned, and all their futile attempts to reach God in His glory fail.

Romans 3 :23WEB for all have sinned, and fall short of the glory of God;

Romans 3 :23WE All have done wrong and all are far from being as good as God.

Is it your understanding and belief, that when this passage say's, "for all have sinned" that 'all' means 'all' as a absolute?


Have a Blessed day!

 

[garee]

Is it your understanding and belief, that when this passage say's, "for all have sinned" that 'all' means 'all' as a absolute?


Have a Blessed day!

No the exemption is the Son of man Jesus . He alone did not do the will of his flesh which he says profits for zero.(John6) As the chief apostle without fail he did the will of the unseen Holy Father the one Lord, as good Master.

Our Holy Father in heavens commands us to call no man on earth Father as good master. He alone is our one infallible teacher and Lord.

 

[Daniel Marsh]

What would color of skin or eyes have to do with all have sinned and continue to fall short of the glory of God? I am not getting your point. . Any congregation where you have hierarchy of venerable men lording it over the faith of other non venerable through oral traditions of kings, princes or fathers fits the mystery of Babylon . The abomination of desolation.

huh, why majoring in minors?

 

[Fidelibus]

No the exemption is the Son of man Jesus .

Sorry garee, maybe I should have worded it differently. Aside from Jesus, is it your understanding and belief, that when in Romans 3:23 where the passage say's, "for all have sinned" do you believe that "all" absolutely means "all" without exception?

He alone did not do the will of his flesh which he says profits for zero.(John6) As the chief apostle without fail he did the will of the unseen Holy Father the one Lord, as good Master.

So according to your fallible opinion/ personal interpretation of Scripture, Jesus "alone" did not do the will of the flesh? Could you please show the verse in Jn. chapter 6 where Jesus say's that He "alone" did not do the will of the flesh?

Our Holy Father in heavens commands us to call no man on earth Father as good master. He alone is our one infallible teacher and Lord.

Well garee there is a problem with your last sentence. If it is your belief that Jesus was the only human who was "infallible," then what you are basically saying is that the writers of the various books of the Bible were not infallible when they were writing their particular books of Scripture. Can you not see the problem with that? Was not Paul infallible when he wrote his epistles? Were the gospel writers not infallible when they wrote the gospels? If they weren't, then you are essentially saying there could be errors in the Bible...that the Bible is not infallible? So, do you believe the writers of Scripture were infallible or not?

One other quick question garee...What, for a Christian, is the pillar and ground of the truth, Jeff? Is it the Bible?

Have a Blessed Day!

 

[garee]

Sorry garee, maybe I should have worded it differently. Aside from Jesus, is it your understanding and belief, that when in Romans 3:23 where the passage say's, "for all have sinned" do you believe that "all" absolutely means "all" without exception?



So according to your fallible opinion/ personal interpretation of Scripture, Jesus "alone" did not do the will of the flesh? Could you please show the verse in Jn. chapter 6 where Jesus say's that He "alone" did not do the will of the flesh?



Well garee there is a problem with your last sentence. If it is your belief that Jesus was the only human who was "infallible," then what you are basically saying is that the writers of the various books of the Bible were not infallible when they were writing their particular books of Scripture. Can you not see the problem with that? Was not Paul infallible when he wrote his epistles? Were the gospel writers not infallible when they wrote the gospels? If they weren't, then you are essentially saying there could be errors in the Bible...that the Bible is not infallible? So, do you believe the writers of Scripture were infallible or not?

One other quick question garee...What, for a Christian, is the pillar and ground of the truth, Jeff? Is it the Bible?

Have a Blessed Day!

The power to beleive God not seen uses the temporal things seen pillars and ground .There is no power coming from the corrupted temporal things seen.

So then yes we have it in us, it works both to will and to empowers us to do His good pleasure. If he has begun the good work of salvation He not seen is our confidence. our heavenly father gives us a living hope that will never die.

2 Corinthians 4:18 While we look not at the things which are seen, but at the things which are not seen: for the things which are seen are temporal; but the things which are "not seen" are eternal.

Three verse you can look at a decide when using the prescription above for rightly dividing (sola scriptura). Not looking to things seen the temporal pillars and temporal foundations. .

2 Corinthians 4:7 But we have this treasure in earthen vessels, that the excellency of the power may be of God, and not of us.

Philipians1:6 Being confident of this very thing, that he which hath begun a good work in you will perform it until the day of Jesus Christ:

Philipians 2:13 For it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of his good pleasure. Do all things without murmurings and disputings:

Will you deny its God alone that works in us or give that eternal power over to the church as the things of men ? Again God who does the work or flesh and blood? Can't serve two teaching good masters as Lord.

 

[garee]

huh, why majoring in minors?

Not sure what you mean by that?

 

[Fidelibus]

The power to beleive God not seen uses the temporal things seen pillars and ground .There is no power coming from the corrupted temporal things seen.

Sorry garee, but quoting Scripture, and then giving me your fallible, (you do consider yourself fallible, do you not? You have yet to say one way or the other) non-authoritive, and personal interpretation of said Scripture is not addressing the questions I asked of you. I will re-post them one more time in hopes you will not deflect this time around.



"Sorry garee, maybe I should have worded it differently. Aside from Jesus, is it your understanding and belief, that when in Romans 3:23 where the passage say's, "for all have sinned" do you believe that "all" absolutely means "all" without exception?"

"So according to your fallible opinion/ personal interpretation of Scripture, Jesus "alone" did not do the will of the flesh? Could you please show the verse in Jn. chapter 6 where Jesus say's that He "alone" did not do the will of the flesh?"

"Well garee there is a problem with your last sentence. If it is your belief that Jesus was the only human who was "infallible," then what you are basically saying is that the writers of the various books of the Bible were not infallible when they were writing their particular books of Scripture. Can you not see the problem with that? Was not Paul infallible when he wrote his epistles? Were the gospel writers not infallible when they wrote the gospels? If they weren't, then you are essentially saying there could be errors in the Bible...that the Bible is not infallible? So, do you believe the writers of Scripture were infallible or not?"

"One other quick question garee...What, for a Christian, is the pillar and ground of the truth, Jeff? Is it the Bible?"

Will you deny its God alone that works in us or give that eternal power over to the church as the things of men ? Again God who does the work or flesh and blood? Can't serve two teaching good masters as Lord.

Address the above questions of mine, then I will address these two questions of yours.


Have a Blessed Day!

 

[garee]

Sorry garee, but quoting Scripture, and then giving me your fallible, (you do consider yourself fallible, do you not? You have yet to say one way or the other) non-authoritive, and personal interpretation of said Scripture is not addressing the questions I asked of you. I will re-post them one more time in hopes you will not deflect this time around.



"Sorry garee, maybe I should have worded it differently. Aside from Jesus, is it your understanding and belief, that when in Romans 3:23 where the passage say's, "for all have sinned" do you believe that "all" absolutely means "all" without exception?"

"So according to your fallible opinion/ personal interpretation of Scripture, Jesus "alone" did not do the will of the flesh? Could you please show the verse in Jn. chapter 6 where Jesus say's that He "alone" did not do the will of the flesh?"

"Well garee there is a problem with your last sentence. If it is your belief that Jesus was the only human who was "infallible," then what you are basically saying is that the writers of the various books of the Bible were not infallible when they were writing their particular books of Scripture. Can you not see the problem with that? Was not Paul infallible when he wrote his epistles? Were the gospel writers not infallible when they wrote the gospels? If they weren't, then you are essentially saying there could be errors in the Bible...that the Bible is not infallible? So, do you believe the writers of Scripture were infallible or not?"

"One other quick question garee...What, for a Christian, is the pillar and ground of the truth, Jeff? Is it the Bible?"

Address the above questions of mine, then I will address these two questions of yours.


Have a Blessed Day!

Yes the church seen represented as a pillar has the treasure of Christ's power that works in their earthen bodies of death but no power from the earthen bodies.(dead in trespasses and sin )

2 Corinthians 4:7 But we have this treasure in earthen vessels, that the excellency of the power may be of God, and not of us.

If any man has not the Spirit of Christ then neither do they belong to Him

Romans 8:9-11 But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.And if Christ be in you, the body is dead because of sin; but the Spirit is life because of righteousness.
But if the Spirit of him that raised up Jesus from the dead dwell in you, he that raised up Christ from the dead shall also quicken your mortal bodies by his Spirit that dwelleth in you.

 

[Fidelibus]

Yes the church seen represented as a pillar has the treasure of Christ's power that works in their earthen bodies of death but no power from the earthen bodies.(dead in trespasses and sin )

2 Corinthians 4:7 But we have this treasure in earthen vessels, that the excellency of the power may be of God, and not of us.

If any man has not the Spirit of Christ then neither do they belong to Him

Romans 8:9-11 But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.And if Christ be in you, the body is dead because of sin; but the Spirit is life because of righteousness.
But if the Spirit of him that raised up Jesus from the dead dwell in you, he that raised up Christ from the dead shall also quicken your mortal bodies by his Spirit that dwelleth in you.

Again garee, giving me your fallible, non-authoritive opinion of what 'you' believe Scripture is saying (which could be in error) is not addressing the questions. I will post them one last time, and will break and number as to simplify them.

1. Aside from Jesus, is it your understanding and belief, that when in Romans 3:23 where the passage say's, "for all have sinned" do you believe that "all" absolutely means "all" without exception?"

2. Could you please show the verse in John chapter 6 where Jesus say's that He "alone" did not do the will of the flesh?"

Earlier, you posted that it is your belief that Jesus was the only human who was infallible. So....

3. Was not Paul infallible when he wrote his epistles?

4. Were the gospel writers not infallible when they wrote the gospels?

5. If they weren't, are you essentially saying there could be errors in the Bible...that the Bible is not infallible?

6. Do you believe the writers of Scripture were infallible or not?"

7.What, for a Christian, is the pillar and ground of the truth?

8. Is it the Bible?

There you go my friend. It is my hope you will answer each question directly. Which by the way, most could be answered with a yes or no.

If you decide against answering them, I can only surmise you have either no intention of answering them, or theologically you can't, which in either case would be disappointing.


Have a Blessed day!

 

[garee]

Again garee, giving me your fallible, non-authoritive opinion of what 'you' believe Scripture is saying (which could be in error) is not addressing the questions. I will post them one last time, and will break and number as to simplify them.

1. Aside from Jesus, is it your understanding and belief, that when in Romans 3:23 where the passage say's, "for all have sinned" do you believe that "all" absolutely means "all" without exception?"

2. Could you please show the verse in John chapter 6 where Jesus say's that He "alone" did not do the will of the flesh?"



Earlier, you posted that it is your belief that Jesus was the only human who was infallible. So....

3. Was not Paul infallible when he wrote his epistles?

4. Were the gospel writers not infallible when they wrote the gospels?

5. If they weren't, are you essentially saying there could be errors in the Bible...that the Bible is not infallible?

6. Do you believe the writers of Scripture were infallible or not?"

7.What, for a Christian, is the pillar and ground of the truth?

8. Is it the Bible?

There you go my friend. It is my hope you will answer each question directly. Which by the way, most could be answered with a yes or no.

If you decide against answering them, I can only surmise you have either no intention of answering them, or theologically you can't, which in either case would be disappointing.


Have a Blessed day!

Again I offer my private interpretation of what I think the Holy Spirit is teaching. We are loving commandment to study and seek after his unseen approval. I offer mine just as an other persons heresy or opinion, the Greek word for sect. The Bible infallibly informs us their must be heresies between us. The kingdom of God does not come by observing the temporal things of men

When a law of the father a false hierarchy of men who were shown as a a false zeal for knowing our unseen Holy Father as those who sought after Christian men and woman' to murder in Acts 22. When they tried to prove all thing written in the law and the prophets was heresy in Acts 24 .Paul was converted from those who follow the pagan foundation "out of sight out of mind" he was called a heretic according to their oral tradition. (law of the fathers)They could prove nothing. Paul given the words of our Father as one sent of God replied by what they called heresy so he worshiped the God of the fathers. . . not the father as if they were in the place of God,

It is easy to see no man can serve two written authorities that of men as a law of the father oral traditions, and the things of God the sacred scriptures'. For he will love the one and hate or not bless the other or the other way around

Acts 24:13:14 Neither can they prove the things whereof they now accuse me. But this I confess unto thee, that after the way which they call heresy, so worship I the God of my fathers, believing all things which are written in the law and in the prophets:

 

[qwaslkpotuyjsn]

Initially I have to say, the Bible doesn't always record ones specific sins. As an extreme example, one might ask, Q) Where does the Bible say Epaphroditus sinned?

But I get that most peoples answers here are just by fact of pointing out Mary is a human. And this is not a cop out.

The only sinless human-God [incarnated] was Jesus - Hebrews 4:15... let alone the only human-God (Luke 1:35 points out that "The Holy Spirit will come upon you, and the power of the Most High will overshadow you; and for that reason the holy Child shall be called the Son of God.", i.e., that is, he is the Son of God (in divine essence with the Father) because of God's part, not Mary's, that he is divine. Matt goes down the path of saying he is "of the Holy Spirit" and that Joseph had no biological contribution (1:16 even goes out of it's way to make Joseph not the "father of" Jesus, but the "husband of" Mary).

But then there are some specific things written concerning Mary to further go more particularly down this path:

Luke 2:35, 1:47ff - showing her being convicted by the need to respond to the gospel/Christ (similar to other hearts being convicted) and showing her express her God as her Saviour and seeing herself completely under his mercy.

And find one example in the NT where an Apostle pointed to her as one to whom we should pray, a dead human (therefore, since also only Jesus has resurrected again - 1Cor 15 and the rest of us wait for his return to receive our new bodies - only Jesus was not under the power of sin/death. As such, she was a sinner). If Jesus never rose again, we have no reason to hope in him - 1Cor 15. And if she didn't arise in her new body, which she didn't because only one man did until the time for the rest of us (bodily), she is no source of perfection.

 

[throughfiierytrial]

Initially I have to say, the Bible doesn't always record ones specific sins. As an extreme example, one might ask, Q) Where does the Bible say Epaphroditus sinned?

But I get that most peoples answers here are just by fact of pointing out Mary is a human. And this is not a cop out.

The only sinless human-God [incarnated] was Jesus - Hebrews 4:15... let alone the only human-God (Luke 1:35 points out that "The Holy Spirit will come upon you, and the power of the Most High will overshadow you; and for that reason the holy Child shall be called the Son of God.", i.e., that is, he is the Son of God (in divine essence with the Father) because of God's part, not Mary's, that he is divine. Matt goes down the path of saying he is "of the Holy Spirit" and that Joseph had no biological contribution (1:16 even goes out of it's way to make Joseph not the "father of" Jesus, but the "husband of" Mary).

But then there are some specific things written concerning Mary to further go more particularly down this path:

Luke 2:35, 1:47ff - showing her being convicted by the need to respond to the gospel/Christ (similar to other hearts being convicted) and showing her express her God as her Saviour and seeing herself completely under his mercy.

And find one example in the NT where an Apostle pointed to her as one to whom we should pray, a dead human (therefore, since also only Jesus has resurrected again - 1Cor 15 and the rest of us wait for his return to receive our new bodies - only Jesus was not under the power of sin/death. As such, she was a sinner). If Jesus never rose again, we have no reason to hope in him - 1Cor 15. And if she didn't arise in her new body, which she didn't because only one man did until the time for the rest of us (bodily), she is no source of perfection.

Also, Mary and family members (or at least some of his family members) began to consider that Jesus was out of his mind...doubting on their part I'll assume:
Mark 3: 20-21
Then Jesus entered a house, and again a crowd gathered, so that he and his disciples were not even able to eat. 21 When his family heard about this, they went to take charge of him, for they said, ‘He is out of his mind.’

this follows...
Mark 30-35:
He said this because they were saying, ‘He has an impure spirit.’
31 Then Jesus’ mother and brothers arrived. Standing outside, they sent someone in to call him. 32 A crowd was sitting round him, and they told him, ‘Your mother and brothers are outside looking for you.’
33 ‘Who are my mother and my brothers?’ he asked.
34 Then he looked at those seated in a circle round him and said, ‘Here are my mother and my brothers! 35 Whoever does God’s will is my brother and sister and mother.’