What should I do?

[Polycarp_fan]

What about the people who have no problem with this? Are they not members of the populace?

If I tell you what they are called I'll get banned.

Homosexuality is not just sex acts. You have been told this repeatedly, but you refuse to understand, because you prefer the lie that you have constructed.

And yet all of the evidence is on my side.

Liar.

The ad hom. Of course and always.

This applies to you.

Master's degree have you?

 

[Andreusz]

And yet all of the evidence is on my side.

Prove it.

The ad hom. Of course and always.

You clearly do not understand what an ad hominem argument is. I called you a liar because your statement does not accord with the truth, and I strongly believe you are aware of this. This is not an ad hominem argument.

Master's degree have you?

What do my qualifications have to do with this?

 

[cantata]

To be fair, Cantata, I think a lot of people did admire Kennedy's looks.

Did they regard it as a measure of his ability to be a good president?

Attractiveness? Yes. You should hear leftist talk radio over here. They can't get enough of deriding Caribou Barbie and incessantly bringing up how horrid McCains appearance is. Now, for the record, I am an admirer of Mrs. Clinton. She is a great woman and a great person. I do nt begrudge her ambitions.

Here comes that Polycarp_fan refrain again...

"THEY STARTED IT"

When will you get it into your head that saying "The other guys do it!" doesn't get you off the hook?

BARACK OBAMA

He's advertised as a flippin' messiah. He even believes it himself. His latest ad: "We're going to change America and then the world."

What has that to do with how he looks?

Hubba-hubba baby. I have always maintained that I am a flesh and blood man. This isn't a right-wing computer generated program destroying the common arguments of liberals. Look, even Alec Baldwin thinks she's awesome.

Also, being able to drill a moose or deer with a 30-06, clean and cook em, and have five children as well . . . OH MY . . . ! That's a leader.

Palin's revolution is just starting!!!!!!!

(I'll be back in a few minutes.)

OK, cold shower over. (My wife's not home.)

So you're seriously saying that you finding her sexy makes her a better candidate?

Bring on the terrorists, the Russians and the Venezuelans. Cantata, these people will not respect nor regard Obama as anything but a tax and spend Democrat focused on destroying the conservatives in America and abroad.

Sarah Palin on the other hand, they know she can kill and care for her family with what she provides for them.

McCain chose wisely.

Which has absolutely NOTHING to do with the post to which you responded.

I haven't said anything about Palin except that I find it hilarious that you think you're being ever so diplomatic by supporting her and yet you bring up how she looks as a reason for it.

Ya know cantata, I'm thinking that sometimes, we can have fun with all of this. I'm really not afriad of any of you.

It'd be pretty pathetic if you were. It's not like liberals on the internet are going to shoot rainbows down your chimney.

 

[wanderingone]

As a gay man who wants a long-term, monogamous and fulfilling relationship, what would the Religious Right suggest I do? Try to change my sexuality? Live a lonely and unfulfilled life of self-imposed celibacy? Or be myself and seek fulfilment? I believe straight marriage is great and should continue to be protected by law, I have no interest whatsoever in sleeping around or eroding social morals about the beauty of long-term monogamous relationships (in fact that's what I want). But should I accept little or no recognition of my relationship? Why I can't be married?

Even conservative Christians do not have a single answer for you, however since you are not a Christian their answer should not matter to you. What should matter is their response to the legal regulation of an institution that for some is a religious rite. In my opinion an American Christian attempting to make the laws of the land comply with their own faith is failing their faith, and failing as a citizen to attempt to force people who don't share their beliefs to comply with them.

If you were a Christian depending on the church you belonged to you would hear that you CAN'T be gay because that just doesn't exist and you've been led astray by a sexually perverse society. You might be referred to counseling of some type and told to denounce this sin.

You might be told that being gay is okay, as long as you don't act on your preference and that you should choose a life of abstinance.

You might be told sex is only allowed within marriage and since marriage for same sex couples is not currently allowed you must remain celibate (as if God invented the marriage license and will only recognize a committment made by legal means)

In my church you would most likely get a message that your relationships are between yourself and God. That until a legal option is available to you for public commitment the church (although not the denomination ) will bless your union and accept you as a couple who are as equally committed as any heterosexual married couple in the church.

 

[wanderingone]

They really don't give a damn about getting married.

Uh-huh and Richard and Mildred Loving were just making a political statement when they asked for help to live in their home state as a married couple despite being legally prohibited.
-----------
Stop speaking what you don't know. The men and women I know who married where they could legally be married did so out of the same desire to be MARRIED as anyone else. Then there are all those folks who despite being LEGALLY prevented from marriage still have ceremonies... wow.. imagine that.. even though they can't get a license there are gay couples every day making public commitments to each other.

 

[OphidiaPhile]

Attractiveness? Yes. You should hear leftist talk radio over here. They can't get enough of deriding Caribou Barbie and incessantly bringing up how horrid McCains appearance is. Now, for the record, I am an admirer of Mrs. Clinton. She is a great woman and a great person. I do nt begrudge her ambitions.



BARACK OBAMA



He's advertised as a flippin' messiah. He even believes it himself. His latest ad: "We're going to change America and then the world."



Hubba-hubba baby. I have always maintained that I am a flesh and blood man. This isn't a right-wing computer generated program destroying the common arguments of liberals. Look, even Alec Baldwin thinks she's awesome.

Also, being able to drill a moose or deer with a 30-06, clean and cook em, and have five children as well . . . OH MY . . . ! That's a leader.

Palin's revolution is just starting!!!!!!!

(I'll be back in a few minutes.)

OK, cold shower over. (My wife's not home.)

Bring on the terrorists, the Russians and the Venezuelans. Cantata, these people will not respect nor regard Obama as anything but a tax and spend Democrat focused on destroying the conservatives in America and abroad.

Sarah Palin on the other hand, they know she can kill and care for her family with what she provides for them.

McCain chose wisely.


Ya know cantata, I'm thinking that sometimes, we can have fun with all of this. I'm really not afriad of any of you.

Not only is she not attractive the fact that she kills animals makes her downright ugly.

 

[selfinflikted]

Not only is she not attractive the fact that she kills animals makes her downright ugly.

Huh? I like to hunt every now and then, and I certainly hope that doesn't make me "ugly". =\

 

[wanderingone]

Huh? I like to hunt every now and then, and I certainly hope that doesn't make me "ugly". =\

Well yuck...

Seriously I hate hunting, but those folks who hunt and use the meat I can't argue with.. they at least have the picture of where their food comes from and I would propose that a hunter going out and getting a deer who has lived its life pretty much comfortably fits more naturally into the circle of life idea than eating beef that's been slaughtered along with thousands of others after being cooped up in a too small pen and injected with all kinds of chemicals.. hopefully you don't dive bomb wolves from airplanes. (and yeah I heard the argument about managing wildlife.. somehow shooting from an airplane doesn't fit in for me on that)

 

[OphidiaPhile]

Huh? I like to hunt every now and then, and I certainly hope that doesn't make me "ugly". =\

Do you kill wolves from a helicopter or offer $150.00 for the left foreleg of every wolf killed or did you pass a law making it legal to kill female Bears with cubs or sue the government to remove Polar Bears from the endangered species list so they could be hunted, if not then you are not ugly.

 

[FlamingFemme]

Do you kill wolves from a helicopter or offer $150.00 for the left foreleg of every wolf killed or did you pass a law making it legal to kill female Bears with cubs or sue the government to remove Polar Bears from the endangered species list so they could be hunted, if not then you are not ugly.

^ This.
I don't really agree with hunting for sport, but if you hunt, and eat what you kill, I can't fault you for it.

To the OP:
*hugs*
I wonder the same thing sometimes.

 

[ToddNotTodd]

So you're seriously saying that you finding her sexy makes her a better candidate?

You're naive if you think the general American populace doesn't take looks into account when voting. Michael Dukakis was derided for his looks and his short stature in '88. I've known many people that, when asked why they were voting for someone, answer in part that their favorite candidate was "attractive". I believe that if Palin had a gigantic nose and warts she would have been passed over. She was a "safe" choice because she's seen as attractive.

It seems to have had an effect on PCF at least...

 

[gwenmead]

Fair point, I'm just wondering on an individual basis how they see things. I doubt many of them know any gay people, as they don't seem to think about 'teh gayz' as a group of actual people.

Well, fair that, yeah.
If I may offer the perspective I held back when I was a Christian: there was a time when I would've classified myself with the Religious Right on many issues. I was considerably more conservative than I am now, by leaps and bounds (though moderate on some issues too). While I don't ever recall being rabidly homophobic, I took the stance that homosexuality was not even remotely Biblical, and adopted an attitude of pity that some would live in sin that way - a "hate the sin, love the sinner" way of looking at it.

However, I should also note that I knew absolutely nothing about GLBT anything. I'd lived a very restrictive, repressive, sheltered life, and for most of my life homosexuality was just something no one ever talked about, for good or ill. So gay marriage as a specific issue never even came up at all, back in the day, because homosexuality just wasn't even on the radar until I was nearly grown up.

It wasn't until I was in college the first time and a good friend of mine came out of the closet that I got any real education on the subject. I will be forever grateful to that friend for being willing to sit down with me and answer all my stupid questions, because it put a face on something that, even though I didn't find it repulsive, per se, I just didn't know anything about it at all.

I do recall a level of fear in my religious community about homosexuality. For some it was simply an unknown, for others it was a frightening threat, and becoming truly educated about it was equally frightening. It didn't occur to me why, for a long time, but I just had a thought about it: look at me now. I am not gay, but I am polyamorous, generally liberal, and my sexuality had taken some very interesting turns over the past decade or so. My values stand 180 degrees from most religious conservatives now, and becoming educated was part of that shift in values.

One cannot adopt a new idea if one has never been exposed to it. If one cannot avoid being exposed to new ideas, vilification of said ideas is one way of warding them off. I've found over the years that the truly bigoted tend to be resistant to honest education; willful ignorance is part of the way they preserve their deeply-held values.

Someone ignorant but open to education may be able to see you as human. Someone hell-bent on preserving their beliefs at any cost probably will never be able to.

 

[HappyHealthyHolyRoller]

Well, fair that, yeah.
If I may offer the perspective I held back when I was a Christian: there was a time when I would've classified myself with the Religious Right on many issues. I was considerably more conservative than I am now, by leaps and bounds (though moderate on some issues too). While I don't ever recall being rabidly homophobic, I took the stance that homosexuality was not even remotely Biblical, and adopted an attitude of pity that some would live in sin that way - a "hate the sin, love the sinner" way of looking at it.

However, I should also note that I knew absolutely nothing about GLBT anything. I'd lived a very restrictive, repressive, sheltered life, and for most of my life homosexuality was just something no one ever talked about, for good or ill. So gay marriage as a specific issue never even came up at all, back in the day, because homosexuality just wasn't even on the radar until I was nearly grown up.

It wasn't until I was in college the first time and a good friend of mine came out of the closet that I got any real education on the subject. I will be forever grateful to that friend for being willing to sit down with me and answer all my stupid questions, because it put a face on something that, even though I didn't find it repulsive, per se, I just didn't know anything about it at all.

I do recall a level of fear in my religious community about homosexuality. For some it was simply an unknown, for others it was a frightening threat, and becoming truly educated about it was equally frightening. It didn't occur to me why, for a long time, but I just had a thought about it: look at me now. I am not gay, but I am polyamorous, generally liberal, and my sexuality had taken some very interesting turns over the past decade or so. My values stand 180 degrees from most religious conservatives now, and becoming educated was part of that shift in values.

One cannot adopt a new idea if one has never been exposed to it. If one cannot avoid being exposed to new ideas, vilification of said ideas is one way of warding them off. I've found over the years that the truly bigoted tend to be resistant to honest education; willful ignorance is part of the way they preserve their deeply-held values.

Someone ignorant but open to education may be able to see you as human. Someone hell-bent on preserving their beliefs at any cost probably will never be able to.

Your situation and your life history is indeed unique. Most of us usually adopt a moral and ethical code after we go through life experiences and education--not before, as your case illustrates.
This will explain why most of the older people on this forum are conservative types, as it is in the general populace.

Since you traded your once-sound moral compass for that of one without good morals and ethics (you call this being or thinking 'liberal') over the last 10 years or so, it's only a matter of time before the devil has his way in your life; you will be back, provided the Spirit of God was with you in the first place.

 

[gwenmead]

Your situation and your life history is indeed unique.

Sure, as unique as anybody's, really.

There's a great deal more to it than that, of course, but that's all I feel is relevant at the moment.

Most of us usually adopt a moral and ethical code after we go through life experiences and education--not before, as your case illustrates.

Yes, I adopted my current moral code after a number of life experiences and some education, as indicated in my story.

This will explain why most of the older people on this forum are conservative types, as it is in the general populace.

That might be one explanation, yes. I have no idea if it's actually true or not, so will not speculate.

Since you traded your once-sound moral compass for that of one without good morals and ethics (you call this being or thinking 'liberal') over the last 10 years or so, it's only a matter of time before the devil has his way in your life; you will be back, provided the Spirit of God was with you in the first place.

No worries. My morals are doin' dandy, as am I. I'm fairly confident that the Spirit of God was as much with me as it ever was with you, but I doubt I'll be back.

 

[cantata]

You're naive if you think the general American populace doesn't take looks into account when voting. Michael Dukakis was derided for his looks and his short stature in '88. I've known many people that, when asked why they were voting for someone, answer in part that their favorite candidate was "attractive". I believe that if Palin had a gigantic nose and warts she would have been passed over. She was a "safe" choice because she's seen as attractive.

It seems to have had an effect on PCF at least...

Doesn't justify it, though, does it?

I think it's pathetic, and I think it's particularly pathetic that someone would actually bring that up as a reason to vote for someone.

 

[David Brider]

Secondly, the gay community has to find their own definition of marriage. The great flaw in their thinking is they don't want to get married (since when does a guy who like has well over 1,000 partners a year on average have any interest in monogamy?)...

Where on earth do you get a figure like that from? Given that gay people are very much in a minority, I doubt that most gay people even know 1000 other gay people, never mind having sex with them. I mean, good grief, that would average out at about three different partners a day. Where do you imagine that gay people find the time?

David.

 

[David Brider]

As a gay man who wants a long-term, monogamous and fulfilling relationship, what would the Religious Right suggest I do? Try to change my sexuality? Live a lonely and unfulfilled life of self-imposed celibacy? Or be myself and seek fulfilment? I believe straight marriage is great and should continue to be protected by law, I have no interest whatsoever in sleeping around or eroding social morals about the beauty of long-term monogamous relationships (in fact that's what I want). But should I accept little or no recognition of my relationship? Why I can't be married?

In the words of a certain wise old sage, "you must do what you feel is right." That's all any of us can do.

David.

 

[David Brider]

Take a look at your signature-rote insult lines.

Insult lines? What's insulting about them? They seem perfectly okay to me. Especially the quote from Tony Benn. We need more politicians like him.

David.

 

[FrederickM]

I think I'm going to get fired upon by some for this, but this is just what I think;
Go for it.
As long as you are not picking up random guys in bars, really look for your happiness, if it really makes you happy. Don't let others make you suffer, its easy for us to say, stay away from it because we don't share your problem.
Forget what they say, don't think twice about what they think of you, for if God really punishes you on day of judgement, I think any genuine human shall pray for you, one who is seeking a pious and correct life style except with a man.
If yet God wants you to burn in hell for seeking love, then he is malevolent, and heaven will not be a place of joy, but rather a place of eternal judgement, prejudice, and arrogance with little difference to hell.

 

[Sycophant]

For the OP - if you want a monogamous relationship then by all means go out looking for it, find the man of your dreams. Make whatever commitments you can to him in whatever ways are available and comfortable for you both. That should at least satisfy your emotional desires.

Then continue to hope that ignorant fearful idiots don't prevail and that you and your partner can become a legally recognised couple in the near future. If not then perhaps you might consider moving somewhere that small-mindedness doesn't rule.

As for the '1000 partners a year' thing - if you're going to make stuff up, at least try to sound reasonable. Saying 50 or 100 partners a year might have had some believability. But no one is going to believe anyone has three sexual partners a day. And, of course anyone who actually knows gay people and doesn't get their information from other idiots will know that most gay people are exactly like more straight people - some like and get a lot of sex, but most don't. And even those that do probably grow out of that pretty quickly really.

None of my friends from ten years ago who were picking up new girls every weekend are doing anything of the sort now, and my most 'promiscuous' gay friend (who 'scored' less than many of my straight friends) has been with his current partner for longer than I have been with my wife.