What should Constantine or the Church have done?

[timothyu]

Constantine was Baptised in the last period of his life, by Eusebius.

After defeating the Latin Empire in the civil war, one would presume the Greek church.

 

[prodromos]

After defeating the Latin Empire in the civil war, one would presume the Greek church.

Constantine and his army were just as Latin.

 

[timothyu]

Constantine and his army were just as Latin.

Really? After defeating the latin side of the empire?

 

[prodromos]

Really? After defeating the latin side of the empire?

Both sides were Latin

 

[Philip_B]

Really? After defeating the latin side of the empire?

I have no idea what you are talking about. Constantine defeated Licinius (his brother in law) at the battle of Hellespont, thanks mainly to the efforts of his Son Chrispus. He ultimately moved the Capital from Rome to the old site of Byzantium.

 

[Philip_B]

After defeating the Latin Empire in the civil war, one would presume the Greek church.

At this stage of History, the distinction between the Greek and Latin Church makes little sense.

 

[timothyu]

To a non Greek church I suppose

 

[Philip_B]

To a non Greek church I suppose

No, that is not the point. This is before the time of the great schism. Whilst there were clear differences in how the liturgy was celebrated in Rome and Other Centres, this was not a matter of great consternation. Central to the Building of Constantinople were a number of Churches, Hagia Irene attached to the Palace, Holy Apostles, and Hagia Sophia, being amongst them.

Constantine's vision of the Church was of a Church rather more whole and undivided, as was his vision of the empire. The Council of Nicaea that happened under his watch was by intent to be a Council of the Whole Church. Constantine's Vision of Empire was naturally broad. He had first been declared Augustus by the Legions in York - as in Britain, a very long way from both Rome and Byzantium.

There were undoubtedly differences between Eastern and Western Rites, but in terms of substantial division, that first raised its head in the time of Photius, and then resolved, and then the events of 1014 led to the great schism in 1054. Over-reading later divisions to earlier periods of history is not to my mind constructive or informative.

 

[timothyu]

Revisionist history. Greek is Greek.

 

[prodromos]

Revisionist history.

Is what you are posting. Little nonsensical sound bites with no backing references.

Greek is Greek.

 

[Root of Jesse]

Constantine didn't get saved until his deathbed. Who knows if it's even possible to get saved on your death bed without doing anything, according to ROMAN CATHOLICS?

There's that pesky thief on the Cross who did...Constantine believed before he was baptized. And Christ told us Baptism saves us.

He sure loved Christianity. lol.

It's because he took it seriously. If baptism saves us from our sins, as Jesus tells us, then best to wait until you can't do any more. That was the reasoning.

I don't get Roman Catholicism. This idea that God did it and the Romans didn't manipulate things.

How could they manipulate things? There were so many who died rather than apostatize ... Oh, the secular government tried, but never succeeded.

It seems absurd to believe that it's the perfection of Jesus and the Apostles.

Nope. The apostles were not perfect. They had the Holy Spirit to guide them and lead them in all truth.

That's why I don't like Eastern Orthodoxy also.. what is their proof? Apostolic succession? They can't even prove half of it with doctrine. Sola Scriptura is the point of life.

Sola Scriptura is not Biblical.

God may have lead Catholic councils to put the books together, but who cares?

Who cares what God did...

Martin Luther and the reformers managed to take the truth and dispel the garbage.

Not to say that the Church didn't need reformation, it always does, us being human and all...but Luther just closed off parts of the banquet Jesus gave us.

Thinking Apostolic Succession corrupted itself, then Eastern Christianity fixed it, proves Apostolic Succession to be a wish in the wind as far as continuing today.

I don't think Eastern Orthodox 'fixed' Apostolic Succession, I think they just rebeled against the Pope.

Look at what Luther rebelled against. Look what the Catholics of the time were saying. Sure, he didn't rebel against Eastern Orthodoxy, in a way.. so i'll continue to give them the opportunity to persuade me. The Apostles set the foundation.. then what happened? I'm learning slowly. I'm just not grasping Constantine killing non-Christians forming "righteousness"... i know Protestants had a murderous history in some ways, but nothing you can't say "Sometimes people hold God accountable for man." God did some times destroy his creation, but justifiably. We are talking about the Pope, about all of it.. the righthand man to God. Eastern Orthodoxy is the reformation of Catholicism.. in a way.

Seems there's a lot you're not grasping. Try reading a book called "The Apostasy that Wasn't.

 

[prodromos]

I don't think Eastern Orthodox 'fixed' Apostolic Succession, I think they just rebeled against the Pope.

There was no Papacy to rebel against.

 

[Philip_B]

Revisionist history. Greek is Greek.

And the the Capital of the Roman Empire was Constantinople for a longer period than Rome.

Greek is Greek, and Greek was the lingua franca of the Roman Empire. Your claim for Revisionist History is lame, unfounded, and not demonstrated.

 

[Philip_B]

There was no Papacy to rebel against.

The Pope failed in upholding the Creed of the Councils in 1014.

 

[timothyu]

And the the Capital of the Roman Empire was Constantinople for a longer period than Rome.

And not latin

 

[Philip_B]

And not latin

I have no idea what the point you are trying to make is, but as far as I can see you have not made it.

 

[prodromos]

And not latin

Constantinople was the capital of the ROMAN Empire. The empire didn't suddenly become Greek when Constantine relocated the capital from Rome. The patriarchate in Constantinople (or Istanbul if you prefer) is known officially as the Rum (Roman) Patriarchate.

Rum Patrikliği, Dr. Sadık Ahmet Cad. No. 19, 34083 Fatih-İstanbul, TURKEY

 

[prodromos]

Or perhaps the Pope failed in upholding the Creed of the Councils.

The "or" should be an "and".

 

[Philip_B]

The "or" should be an "and".

edited a fix. I am sure you know that I had not intent to minimise the offence caused by the other issues. The Bishop of Rome has precedence among equals as was outlined at the 1st Council of Constantinople, 40 odd years after Constantine died.

 

[Root of Jesse]

There was no Papacy to rebel against.

Right...and yet there was.