What set the universe into motion?

[seebs]

Originally posted by nephilimiyr
Why is it that atheists and or evolutionists always answers a question about our universe saying maybe it's because of this or maybe it's because of that, it could be this or it could be that.

Because we are honest enough to admit that, not being God, we don't actually know a whole lot with absolute certainty. When you ask questions about things that are, by definition, outside the realm of science (such as "where did the universe come from" - science only answers questions *WITHIN* the universe), you will get a lot of speculation, but why should we pretend to knowledge we don't have?

Whenever asked about the possibility of a creation they say absolutly not and when they ask a question to us who believe in a creation they demand absolute answers?

Because you claim to have them. I say that creation as depicted in the Bible is almost totally certainly not what happened, simply because it contradicts the physical evidence of creation as we see it today. God doesn't lie to us; He may speak in riddles, or metaphors, or allegory, but He doesn't place fake evidence to mislead us.

And if we dare ever say maybe or that we don't know for sure they act like they just proved themselves right. These guys are real pieces of work! Maybe,possibly, and I don't know are their favorite words when discribing evolution!

I think you're very confused. What you're asking about has absolutely nothing to do with evolution. When you ask questions about evolution, we can offer pretty strong and conclusive evidence.

If I come into a room, and there's a warm gun and a guy with a bullet hole in him, I may not know who shot him, but I can say with some confidence that he was shot, and furthermore, if someone else says "no, he was stabbed", I can say pretty conclusively that the person saying he was stabbed is wrong.

Your question here is, to continue the analogy, the equivalent of saying "If you can't tell me the murderer's grandmother's maiden name, you're obviously wrong about the theory that the man was killed with a gun". Our questions about creationism are more along the lines of "what kind of knife is it that makes a round entrance wound and leaves a bullet in the body?"

 

[Jerry Smith]

Whenever asked about the possibility of a creation they say absolutly not

And this part is just plain wrong. Only when asked about specific mechanisms of creation that are contrary to the natural evidence will you hear one of us say "no". Find a post where any of us answers "absolutely not" to the question of whether creation is a possibility. I know that I have suggested it as a possibility along with other speculative answers when asked about where the universe came from.

 

[Nathan Poe]

What set the universe in motion?

I believe it started rolling down a really steep hill.

 

[lucaspa]

Originally posted by webboffin
From a viewpoint:

The bible never changes it's story. Maybe it doesn't have to.

Well, it's pretty difficult to change the text now, isn't it?

But interpretations certainly have changed. Passages once interpreted to mean the earth was flat have had their interpretation changed. Passages that once were interpreted as geocentrism were reinterpreted.

Of course, doesn't the rather jealous and vengeful god of the OT change into a loving, gentle god in the NT? So yes, the Bible does seem to change it's story.

Anyway, the Book of God's Word gets reinterpreted when more information comes in from the Book of God's Creation.

"If sound science appears to contradict the Bible, we may be sure that it is our interpretation of the Bible that is at fault."

Of course, it can't possibly be that your interpretation of the Bible is ever at fault, can it Weboffin?

 

[lucaspa]

Originally posted by Jerry Smith
Find a post where any of us answers "absolutely not" to the question of whether creation is a possibility. I know that I have suggested it as a possibility along with other speculative answers when asked about where the universe came from.

Neph and Tacoman, let me reinforce Jerry here. I always list "deity" as one of the possible hypotheses for the cause of the Big Bang.

There are dogmatic atheists out there.  Read William Provine or Peter Atkins.  But they aren't here.

 

[webboffin]

Originally posted by lucaspa
Well, it's pretty difficult to change the text now, isn't it?

But interpretations certainly have changed. Passages once interpreted to mean the earth was flat have had their interpretation changed. Passages that once were interpreted as geocentrism were reinterpreted.

Of course, doesn't the rather jealous and vengeful god of the OT change into a loving, gentle god in the NT? So yes, the Bible does seem to change it's story.

Anyway, the Book of God's Word gets reinterpreted when more information comes in from the Book of God's Creation.

"If sound science appears to contradict the Bible, we may be sure that it is our interpretation of the Bible that is at fault."

Of course, it can't possibly be that your interpretation of the Bible is ever at fault, can it Weboffin?

wrong

 

[Chris†opher Paul]

Originally posted by TacoMan
If there was nothing before the big bang, then where did the particle come from?

Originally posted by RufusAtticus
Possibly a quantum singularity.

How is that possible without time or space?

Originally posted by lucapsa
Remember that spacetime also came into existence at the Big Bang. Not only was there no matter/energy, but no space and no time, either.

 

[Arikay]

Explain more, why is it wrong?

Originally posted by webboffin
wrong

 

[Arikay]

This is the problem, since everything we see, is from inside the universe, and after the big bang, currently it is impossible to say what is outside of the universe, and what was before the big bang.

even though scientists want to know, they also say its irrelivent to the study of our universe, since everything we can study came into existance after the big bang, and exists in our universe.

Originally posted by Chris†opher Paul
How is that possible without time or space?

 

[tacoman528]

To Everyone,
First of all, I would like to say that we are getting off track. What we all want is the truth, we don't want to spend only 10% with content of science and stuff all the rest with insults and putdowns. Lets try to keep a clean show running. If we have to end this conversation by agreeing to disagree, so be it.

Anyway, If our universe came from a previous universe, then wouldn't it be the same. Like father, like son. We don't even know that there are any other universes. We may be alone. One reason I don't think there are any universes is because of black holes: if there are black holes leading into other universes, then how come there are non that lead into this one. With the very large amount of black holes around here, shouldn't there be at least a few "white holes" that expell energy and matter from a parallel universe.

We also know that energy cannot just "come into existence" because it is created by electrons jumping from a higher to a lower orbital in an atom. If there are no atoms, there is no energy that can be created.

And the reason I think that God did not use the Big Bang to trigger the universe, was because he said he didn't. That's good enough for me.

Also, another kind of neat fact:

Uni - means "one"

Verse - means "short stanza or phrase"

universe - "One short Phrase"...

"Let there be..."

 

[tacoman528]

I have a question for all you experienced people. How do you get blessings?

 

[Praxiteles]

Originally posted by tacoman528


Also, another kind of neat fact:

Uni - means "one"

Verse - means "short stanza or phrase"

universe - "One short Phrase"...

"Let there be..."

tacoman,

Your "neat fact" is very clearly unfactual.  From the American Heritage Dictionary:

u·ni·verse

n.

1. All matter and energy, including the earth, the galaxies, and the contents of intergalactic space, regarded as a whole.

[Middle English, from Old French univers, from Latin universum, from neuter of universus, whole : unus, one; see oi-no- in Indo-European roots + versus, past participle of vertere, to turn; see wer-2 in Indo-European roots.]

You might wish to check other "facts" that you have received from the same source.  It is clearly very unreliable.

Cheers,

Prax

 

[Praxiteles]

You get 7 blessings every time you start a thread. You can also be given blessings by other members, and you can also pass your blessings on.

Moderators are an excellent source.

 

[Praxiteles]

Originally posted by tacoman528

Anyway, If our universe came from a previous universe, then wouldn't it be the same. Like father, like son. We don't even know that there are any other universes. We may be alone. One reason I don't think there are any universes is because of black holes: if there are black holes leading into other universes, then how come there are non that lead into this one. With the very large amount of black holes around here, shouldn't there be at least a few "white holes" that expell energy and matter from a parallel universe.

You might want to research what a black hole is.  A black hole is not, as you seem to think, a portal.

You may be confusing them with wormholes, which are theoretical at this point.  Wormholes, if they exists, only join two points in spacetime in this universe.

And the reason I think that God did not use the Big Bang to trigger the universe, was because he said he didn't.

No, he didn't.  Unless you've actually had a one on one with God, we have the Bible, and at no point does it say any such thing.

 

[DNAunion]

tacoman528: We also know that energy cannot just "come into existence" because it is created by electrons jumping from a higher to a lower orbital in an atom. If there are no atoms, there is no energy that can be created.

DNAunion: There were no atoms just after the Big Bang occurred: the energies were too great for particles to form atoms. Unless you are claiming that the theories physicists have worked out for the events that followed the Big Bang itself are incorrect, then it cannot be that energy comes only from electrons falling to lower energy levels in atoms.

 

[tacoman528]

Originally posted by DNAunion
DNAunion: There were no atoms just after the Big Bang occurred: the energies were too great for particles to form atoms. Unless you are claiming that the theories physicists have worked out for the events that followed the Big Bang itself are incorrect, then it cannot be that energy comes only from electrons falling to lower energy levels in atoms.

Then wouldn't there need to be some energy to start the big bang.

 

[tacoman528]

Originally posted by Praxiteles
You might want to research what a black hole is.  A black hole is not, as you seem to think, a portal.

You may be confusing them with wormholes, which are theoretical at this point.  Wormholes, if they exists, only join two points in spacetime in this universe.

 

Stephen Hawking, a black hole expert, seems to think that black holes lead to other universes. I don't. I don't think that they act as wormholes. However, I was using that as a point for other people who believe they do act as wormholes, as somewhat of an argument of why other universes have not been proven to exist, and as a way to show them why I think that other universes don't exist.

 

[Arikay]

as I mentioned before, unfortunatly, we just cant tell whats beyond our universe. We can make assumptions based on things we see here though.

Originally posted by tacoman528
 

Stephen Hawking, a black hole expert, seems to think that black holes lead to other universes. I don't. I don't think that they act as wormholes. However, I was using that as a point for other people who believe they do act as wormholes, as somewhat of an argument of why other universes have not been proven to exist, and as a way to show them why I think that other universes don't exist.

 

[Praxiteles]

Originally posted by tacoman528
 

Stephen Hawking, a black hole expert, seems to think that black holes lead to other universes. I don't. I don't think that they act as wormholes. However, I was using that as a point for other people who believe they do act as wormholes, as somewhat of an argument of why other universes have not been proven to exist, and as a way to show them why I think that other universes don't exist.

I have a copy of "An Illustrated History Of Time" by Hawking at home.  I could be mistaken, but I don't remember reading anywhere in it that he says that they are portals.  I'll check it, though.

Black holes are merely the point around a singularity at which the gravity is too strong for even light to escape.  So even if they were doorways, by the time you got to the other side you'd be nothing but particles.

 

[tacoman528]

ya, I know. That also happens to be what I believe