What science says about homosexuality

[b&wpac4]

I bet you still pay income tax?

Ruled Constitutional by the authority, the Supreme Court.

 

[LittleNipper]

So was my assumption correct then, that you believe it's all nurture or learned?

It might also be the result of participation in various behavior/stimulous at very sensitive and strategic point of adolesent development ---- just as television has been shown to be an influence to attention deficit and speech development.

 

[Mercy Medical]

It might also be the result of participation in various behavior/stimulous at very sensitive and strategic point of adolesent development ---- just as television has been shown to be an influence to attention deficit and speech development.

And that might very well be the case for some. I am not denying the fact that it is possible, but I am saying that is not the case for every LGBT individual as everyone comes from different background and different homes and is brought up differently.

As I said before, sexuality is a very, very complex thing. It is not black and white. There is no one cause or another. Actually, sexuality isn't just the complex thing, the human brain is a very complex thing. One cannot just assume that there is one cause for it and that applies to everybody. That's not the way it works.

And your last point in regards to television also only applies to some people. While that may be the cause for some, it is not the cause for all. I watched A LOT of TV growing up and I do not have ADD nor do I have any sort of speech development issue.

 

[Everlasting33]

So was my assumption correct then, that you believe it's all nurture or learned?

No, your assumption was not correct.

Human beings have biological, psychological, sociological components that intertwine within physiological and psychosocial development.

It would be unwise to assume we all are just determined by our environment and nothing else. I am not saying that.

But, assuming homosexuality has genetic components, how does this equal a genetic cause? Are all sexual orientations determined genetically? How much is genetic and how much is environmental?

 

[Mercy Medical]

No, your assumption was not correct.

Human beings have biological, psychological, sociological components that intertwine within physiological and psychosocial development.

It would be unwise to assume we all are just determined by our environment and nothing else. I am not saying that.

But, assuming homosexuality has genetic components, how does this equal a genetic cause? Are all sexual orientations determined genetically? How much is genetic and how much is environmental?

I have no idea nor do I have any answer to any of those questions and I have said in the post right above yours, I believe that human sexuality and the brain are complex things that are influenced by a lot of things, whether it be genetic, biological, nurtured, whatever. No two snowflakes are the same.

 

[Mercy Medical]

No, your assumption was not correct.

Human beings have biological, psychological, sociological components that intertwine within physiological and psychosocial development.

It would be unwise to assume we all are just determined by our environment and nothing else. I am not saying that.

But, assuming homosexuality has genetic components, how does this equal a genetic cause? Are all sexual orientations determined genetically? How much is genetic and how much is environmental?

I have no idea nor do I have any answer to any of those questions and I have said in the post right above yours, I believe that human sexuality and the brain are complex things that are influenced by a lot of things, whether it be genetic, biological, nurtured, whatever. No two snowflakes are the same.

 

[fated]

No, your assumption was not correct.

Human beings have biological, psychological, sociological components that intertwine within physiological and psychosocial development.

It would be unwise to assume we all are just determined by our environment and nothing else. I am not saying that.

But, assuming homosexuality has genetic components, how does this equal a genetic cause? Are all sexual orientations determined genetically? How much is genetic and how much is environmental?

I haven't seen anything comprehensive about any genetic component at all that would provide any of this information, even though I've asked for it and looked for it.

Actually, it looks like it is not genetic or possibly only barely genetic because birth order seems to play a significant role, which would indicate some other factor to be far more important in development.

 

[Skaloop]

There is still no scientific evidence to conclude homosexuality is genetic.

There's plenty. Twin studies, for starters.

Besides, pretty much any human trait is in part due to genetics on some level; sexuality wouldn't be any different.

 

[Mercy Medical]

I haven't seen anything comprehensive about any genetic component at all that would provide any of this information, even though I've asked for it and looked for it.

Actually, it looks like it is not genetic or possibly only barely genetic because birth order seems to play a significant role, which would indicate some other factor to be far more important in development.

Birth order plays a significantly role? How so? I am the youngest child out of 5 (only 4 of which my mother had). My girlfriend is an only child and my cousin was the middle child of 3.

Yes, I see a very significantly correlation there.

 

[Everlasting33]

There's plenty. Twin studies, for starters.

Besides, pretty much any human trait is in part due to genetics on some level; sexuality wouldn't be any different.

Like I said in my earlier post, genetics certainly plays a role but it is not the only one.

Actually, this says otherwise about twin studies:

New Twin Study shows little Genetic / Utero Hormonal causation of homosexuality

This study suggests a correlation between sexual abuse and homosexuality:

"So did the molestation cause--or contribute to--the respondents' own homosexuality some years later in adulthood? The question is particularly intriguing because 68% of the male study subjects and 38% of the females did not identify as homosexual until after the molestation. "

[SIZE=-1]--Tomeo, M., Templer, D., Anderson, S., Kotler, D., "Comparative Data of Childhood and Adolescence Molestation in Heterosexual and Homosexual Persons." Archives of Sexual Behavior Vol. 30(3), pp. 535-541, 2001.[/SIZE]


Research Studies and Journal Articles of Interest

 

[Everlasting33]

I have no idea nor do I have any answer to any of those questions and I have said in the post right above yours, I believe that human sexuality and the brain are complex things that are influenced by a lot of things, whether it be genetic, biological, nurtured, whatever. No two snowflakes are the same.

If homosexuality is not 100% genetic, in what specific ways do you believe people are nurtured in the context of homosexuality?

Is it right to be a homosexual if its genetic and wrong if its nurtured?

 

[Mercy Medical]

If homosexuality is not 100% genetic, in what specific ways do you believe people are nurtured in the context of homosexuality?

Is it right to be a homosexual if its genetic and wrong if its nurtured?

Honestly, I have no idea...but I also don't really feel the need to figure it out because I see no need in determining why someone is the way they are when I see absolutely nothing wrong with it.

And I don't think it's wrong to be homosexual under any context.

 

[fated]

Birth order plays a significantly role? How so? I am the youngest child out of 5 (only 4 of which my mother had). My girlfriend is an only child and my cousin was the middle child of 3.

Yes, I see a very significantly correlation there.

Fraternal birth order and sexual orientation - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Fraternal birth order and sexual orientation

A correlation between fraternal birth order and sexual orientation has been suggested by recent research. Ray Blanchard identified the association and referred to it as the fraternal birth order effect. The observation is that the more older brothers a man has, the greater the probability is that he will have a homosexual orientation.[1] It has sometimes been called the older brother effect.

Has lots of wiki-links!

 

[Everlasting33]

Honestly, I have no idea...but I also don't really feel the need to figure it out because I see no need in determining why someone is the way they are when I see absolutely nothing wrong with it.

And I don't think it's wrong to be homosexual under any context.

So, you are certain its genetic but cannot give any examples of nurture, etc. How convenient.

The study I provided in another post suggests that many homosexuals identify with being homosexual only after sexual abuse. Do you still believe its right in this context?

 

[ke1985]

Like I said in my earlier post, genetics certainly plays a role but it is not the only one.

Actually, this says otherwise about twin studies:

New Twin Study shows little Genetic / Utero Hormonal causation of homosexuality

This study suggests a correlation between sexual abuse and homosexuality:

"So did the molestation cause--or contribute to--the respondents' own homosexuality some years later in adulthood? The question is particularly intriguing because 68% of the male study subjects and 38% of the females did not identify as homosexual until after the molestation. "

[SIZE=-1]--Tomeo, M., Templer, D., Anderson, S., Kotler, D., "Comparative Data of Childhood and Adolescence Molestation in Heterosexual and Homosexual Persons." Archives of Sexual Behavior Vol. 30(3), pp. 535-541, 2001.[/SIZE]


Research Studies and Journal Articles of Interest

Interesting. never heard of this study before but i will bookmark it. thanks

 

[Fin12]

I'm a new guy here and this is my first post so please be gentle.

If one is to examine homosexuality from a scientific perspective, shouldn't the discussion include more context. While I'm no biologist, I've had some basic biology in my education to include two college courses on biology. One thing that comes to mind is basic physiology; that is the function/purpose of organs.

If you consider the sexual reproductive organs, they are designed so that a man's organs not only complement a woman's but also has a reproductive value. The same cannot be said for the organs of two men or the organs of two women.

Also as part of the scientific context you must consider other "conditions" that are supposedly a result of biology or could be a result of biology. This includes criminality such as rape, murder, thievery, etc. There are also other sexual "orientations" to such as pedophilia, bestiality, maybe incestuous desires and so on.

Then you have medical conditions such as poor vision or blindness, Downs Syndrome, heart defects, and so forth.

There are also predispositions that are supposedly inherited such as alcoholism.

So, if you wish to justify the behavior of one group of people on the basis that biologically speaking, it's who they are, then to be ideologically and scientifically consistent you must do it for all. While you may have no problem doing it for people with medical conditions, what about the alcoholic? Does he gain immunity from prosecution for any alcohol-related crimes? Does the murderer get excused for any murder? Do brother and sister get to marry as well?

The obvious retort is that "well, those are crimes and people are victimized" but just as sodomy and other crimes that affected homosexuals were tossed out, why shouldn't the laws affecting other groups of people affected by biological conditions also be tossed out? The remaining retort is "there are still victims to account for." But then you enter the realm of morality and ethics which is highly subjective and so whose ethics and or system of morals trump everyone else's?

Also, what is the response to the conflict between what one feels urges to do vice the physiological design of their bodies?

Lastly, consider this quote from LeVay which seems to completely dispute the conclusions of the OP, "LeVay cautioned against misinterpreting his findings in a 1994 interview: 'It’s important to stress what I didn’t find. I did not prove that homosexuality is genetic, or find a genetic cause for being gay. I didn’t show that gay men are born that way, the most common mistake people make in interpreting my work. Nor did I locate a gay center in the brain. The INAH3 is less likely to be the sole gay nucleus of the brain than a part of a chain of nuclei engaged in men and women's sexual behavior.' " Simon LeVay - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

And there are many critics of LeVay questioning his examination of the hypothalamus as many of the brains of gays he examined died of AIDS. The problem being that AIDS can affect the size of the hypothalamus.

1. So you would agree that contraceptivs are immoral along with elderly and sterile couples that have sex?

2. Rape theft and murder are not sexual orientations. However as for paraphilia such as paedophillia you have to remember that in the context of homosexuality the chance of people being abused is the same as with hetero relationships.

3. The reason homosexuality is genetic would be a victory for the LGBT crowd, would not be a justification, for their is no crime to justify. It is rather that it would shift peoples perspective of homoexuality to something less based around. "It is a behaviour that is learnt through sin"

4. I persoanlly as long as their is no reproduction involved see no problem with incestious marriage along with the alcoholic I would like to see a different sentance handed out if he was incapable of any real cognitive thought.

5. As for who's morality, no ones, if your going to argu that we may as well have no laws, becuase they are all "subjective".

Rule of thumb, if no ones rights are being abused then it continues such is law. Ethics should not come into government, merely what works for the to create the most effecient society.

Welcome to CF

 

[ke1985]

1. So you would agree that contraceptivs are immoral along with elderly and sterile couples that have sex?

2. Rape theft and murder are not sexual orientations. However as for paraphilia such as paedophillia you have to remember that in the context of homosexuality the chance of people being abused is the same.

3. The reason homosexuality is genetic would be a victory for the LGBT crowd, would not be a justification, for their is no crime to justify. It is rather that it would shift peoples perspective of homoexuality to something less based around. "It is a behaviour that is learnt through sin"

4. I persoanlly as long as their is no reproduction involved see no problem with incestious marriage along with the alcoholic I would like to see a different sentance handed out if he was incapable of any real cognitive thought.

5. As for who's morality, no ones, if your going to argu that we may as well have no laws, becuase they are all "subjective".

Rule of thumb, if no ones rights are being abused then it continues such is law. Ethics should not come into government, merely what works for the to create the most effecient society.

Welcome to CF

Even the homosexual (Levy) from the 1991 twin study has said that homosexuals are not born that way.

 

[Fin12]

Even the homosexual (Levy) from the 1991 twin study has said that homosexuals are not born that way.

And?

Thier are plenty of homosexuals who say they were born that way.

You're simply siding with that postion becuase it is the one that your prejudice backs.


I don't personally believe people are "born that way", thier are definatly aspects of nurture in it, something like 85-90% of us straights are to some extent homo-sexual, along with similar statistics for gays.

I take that as a sign that our sexuality has an ability to fluctuate.


Edit: Steelers post intrigued me, I think the out-come of homosexuality after abuse stems from people having a messed up experience which toys with their identity.

However to say that homosexualities cause is abusation is redundant, homosexuality serves it's evoloutionary purpose, and thier are plenty of homosexuals who have no history of abuse.

But nonetheless and intriguing study in the world of psycho-sexuality. (I believe this is the correct term)

 

[Skaloop]

Even the homosexual (Levy) from the 1991 twin study has said that homosexuals are not born that way.

Even if they aren't, and it's all due to some unknown environmental factor, that still doesn't make it a choice, nor does it make it something that needs fixing.

 

[ke1985]

Honestly, I have no idea...but I also don't really feel the need to figure it out because I see no need in determining why someone is the way they are when I see absolutely nothing wrong with it.

And I don't think it's wrong to be homosexual under any context.

Hmm, i thought you said its wrong to engage in all or nothing thinking but this clearly contradicts your past statement.

For the others who have posted:

You are engaging in all or nothing thinking...because you have to. If you say homosexuality is wrong after sexual abuse then it undermines your argument that homosexuality is never wrong.