What saves a person?

Red Sky at Morning said:

As good a talk as I have heard on the subject:-

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First of all, I don't like that he spoke against Finney. If you have ever heard or read any of Finney's preaching, you know that is it anointed of the Holy Spirit.

Secondly, near the end of his talk he mentioned that he believes it is not necessary to pray to receive Christ; and I think that Hosea 14:2 and John 1:12 with Revelation 3:20 would tell us otherwise.

Neostarwcc said:

Obviously Jesus saves as he is the only name to call upon to be saved. But what constitutes salvation? What saves a person? Is it believing in the gospel? I.E. the death, burial, and resurrection of Jesus? If that's the case than Catholics and SDA's are saved. Is it believing in the Trinity? Ditto to Catholics and SDAs and other controversial groups. Is it trusting in the finished work of Jesus on the cross? If that's required for salvation than Catholics and SDAs are not saved and I believe they are so that can't be it. So what saves a person? Paul says in Romans 10:9 that if we declare Jesus as Lord and believe in our hearts that God raised Jesus from the dead than we will be saved. So it must be that every person who believes the gospel and calls upon the Lord for salvation will be saved right? Or am I missing something?

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Put your faith in our Lord, God, and Savior Jesus Christ. Period.

NOT in a theory about how He saves us. There IS a difference.

Putting your faith in a theory is ultimately putting your faith in your own faith, and ultimately in yourself.

[It is God's word that tells us that Christ has paid for all of our sin - past, present and future. This is the Good News of salvation!] This comment was made in a previous post.

1)Christ did not pay for our sin(s).
Christ died in our behalf to redeem us from the curse of the Law by taking the curse of the Law upon Him on the cross ("tree").

Christ has redeemed us from the curse of the law, having become a curse for us (for it is written, "CURSED IS EVERYONE WHO HANGS ON A TREE") (Galatians 3:13).

so that by the grace of God for our faith in Jesus Christ, we are not condemned by the curse.

His dying in our behalf is also how/why those who are born of the Spirit of Jesus Christ are/were justified, saved from death and have Eternal life. We hope to share this understanding in another post. Understanding these points also proves with Scripture why the baptism INTO Jesus Christ mentioned in Romans 6 and Colossians 2 is baptism of the Spirit of Jesus Christ, and not baptism with water in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins as in Matthew 28 and Acts 2:38.

2)God does not forgive our sin.
God forgives us of our sins (and cleanses us of the unrighteousness in our life) by His grace for our faith in Jesus Christ as we repent and confess our sins.

Whoever has been born of God does not sin, for His seed remains in him; and he cannot sin, because he has been born of God (1 John 3:9).
Those who have been born again of the Spirit of Jesus Christ CANNOT commit sin.
When are born of the Spirit, we are one with the Father and the Son, and even though there is yet sin in our life (in our flesh that is) it is no longer we who sin, but sin that dwells in our body/flesh. Our body is redeemed/delivered from sin in our life as we are purged/purified/cleansed of unrighteousness (sin) to be made holy when sanctified completely by being anointed with the Holy Spirit of God. This is when we are perfected forever and "put on immortality."
We have died with Christ and the Spirit of God in Christ is the life within us, so that we are made the righteousness of God by Christ (Who is our righteousness) being the life within us.

In Christ, we are in the Spirit and not in the flesh. We have been spiritually circumcised of the flesh by the circumcision of Christ.

In addition, because sin is transgression of the Law, and because we are no longer under the Law but under the grace of God for our faith, we cannot commit sin by transgressing the Law, because where there is no law, there is no transgression.

In the name of the Lord Jesus Christ,......may God bless.

justbyfaith said:

James 4:7? Naaaah!

Just wanted to bless you with some more persecution my brother.

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If a person submits themselves to God and resists the devil they are obeying His commandments. Your position is that you don't have to submit to God and resist the devil by obeying His commandments because you believe all future sin is paid for you by having a belief on Jesus.

klutedavid said:

Are you finished with massaging that text I quoted (1 John) to make it say something else?

1 John 8-10
If we say that we have no sin, we are deceiving ourselves and the truth is not in us. If we confess our sins, He is faithful and righteous to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. If we say that we have not sinned, we make Him a liar and His word is not in us.

This paragraph is very simple, confess your sin and your forgiven. This paragraph is present tense not past tense.

Your interpretation is erroneous, no wonder you spent so much time on 1 John 8.

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It is not called massaging the text. I was expounding upon it. I was explaining it to you in what it actually says. Most misread this verse and use it as a banner flag to justify a grievous sin and still be saved gospel.

Again.

1 John 1:10.

Is it talking about past sin?

If so, then we BOTH agree that we have sinned in the past. 1 John 1:10 is saying not to declare that we have never sinned ever (including the past). This is clearly a gnostic belief because we both believe 1 John 1:10. 1 John 2:26 is a verse that says that John is writing to the brethren in regards to them that seduce them. So 1 John 1:8 is a warning not to think like the false gnostics in how they denied the existence of sin.

Again, explain to me how 1 John 2:4 works with your false interpretation on 1 John 1:8?

justbyfaith said:

@Jason0047 said:

Now it appears to me that you are saying here that everyone must go to hell and then the lake of fire: because with eternal security, which proposes that we are forgiven of the sins of which we bear their guilt, you are saying that this is a false doctrine that this might be the case.

We are deceiving ourselves if we believe that we will not face the judgment and wrath of God over sin? Christ's blood isn't sufficient to bring forgiveness?

So if we are not forgiven of our sins, how does anyone go to heaven?

I think that you have not thought your position through.

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We are saved by grace THROUGH faith. If you do not have the right kind of faith, then you cannot access the saving grace of God that is a free gift.

Faith always shows itself true by it's works.
Also, a gospel message should never lead a person to think they can commit grievous sin and still be saved on some level.

klutedavid said:

For some unknown reason, you are refusing to answer my question. Jason, you have been asked to name a few sins that we can safely commit.

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You are refusing to answer my question (from the very beginning) in what sins you currently do that are paid for by Jesus Christ by your having a belief alone on Him. For example, if you said you currently lie, I can show you how that is not paid for by Jesus in the Scriptures.

klutedavid said:

For some unknown reason, you are refusing to answer my question. Jason, you have been asked to name a few sins that we can safely commit.

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I already said that there are sins that do not lead unto spiritual death. But as a believer, every saint desires to obey God even in the smallest things (even if it is a command that if disobeyed does not bring spiritual death).

KDB47 said:

[It is God's word that tells us that Christ has paid for all of our sin - past, present and future. This is the Good News of salvation!] This comment was made in a previous post.

1)Christ did not pay for our sin(s).
Christ died in our behalf to redeem us from the curse of the Law by taking the curse of the Law upon Him on the cross ("tree").

Christ has redeemed us from the curse of the law, having become a curse for us (for it is written, "CURSED IS EVERYONE WHO HANGS ON A TREE") (Galatians 3:13).

so that by the grace of God for our faith in Jesus Christ, we are not condemned by the curse.

His dying in our behalf is also how/why those who are born of the Spirit of Jesus Christ are/were justified, saved from death and have Eternal life. We hope to share this understanding in another post. Understanding these points also proves with Scripture why the baptism INTO Jesus Christ mentioned in Romans 6 and Colossians 2 is baptism of the Spirit of Jesus Christ, and not baptism with water in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins as in Matthew 28 and Acts 2:38.
2)God does not forgive our sin.
God forgives us of our sins (and cleanses us of the unrighteousness in our life) by His grace for our faith in Jesus Christ as we repent and confess our sins.

Whoever has been born of God does not sin, for His seed remains in him; and he cannot sin, because he has been born of God (1 John 3:9).
Those who have been born again of the Spirit of Jesus Christ CANNOT commit sin.
When are born of the Spirit, we are one with the Father and the Son, and even though there is yet sin in our life (in our flesh that is) it is no longer we who sin, but sin that dwells in our body/flesh. Our body is redeemed/delivered from sin in our life as we are purged/purified/cleansed of unrighteousness (sin) to be made holy when sanctified completely by being anointed with the Holy Spirit of God. This is when we are perfected forever and "put on immortality."
We have died with Christ and the Spirit of God in Christ is the life within us, so that we are made the righteousness of God by Christ (Who is our righteousness) being the life within us.

In Christ, we are in the Spirit and not in the flesh. We have been spiritually circumcised of the flesh by the circumcision of Christ.

In addition, because sin is transgression of the Law, and because we are no longer under the Law but under the grace of God for our faith, we cannot commit sin by transgressing the Law, because where there is no law, there is no transgression.

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This is not true.


Believing in Jesus is not only required for the blood to cleanse us (Romans 3:25), but also walking in the light as He is in the light to be cleansed of all sin (1 John 1:7). For Jesus is the author of eternal salvation to all who OBEY Him (Hebrews 5:9).

KDB47 said:

Whoever has been born of God does not sin, for His seed remains in him; and he cannot sin, because he has been born of God (1 John 3:9).
Those who have been born again of the Spirit of Jesus Christ CANNOT commit sin.
When are born of the Spirit, we are one with the Father and the Son, and even though there is yet sin in our life (in our flesh that is) it is no longer we who sin, but sin that dwells in our body/flesh. Our body is redeemed/delivered from sin in our life as we are purged/purified/cleansed of unrighteousness (sin) to be made holy when sanctified completely by being anointed with the Holy Spirit of God. This is when we are perfected forever and "put on immortality."
We have died with Christ and the Spirit of God in Christ is the life within us, so that we are made the righteousness of God by Christ (Who is our righteousness) being the life within us.

In Christ, we are in the Spirit and not in the flesh. We have been spiritually circumcised of the flesh by the circumcision of Christ.

In addition, because sin is transgression of the Law, and because we are no longer under the Law but under the grace of God for our faith, we cannot commit sin by transgressing the Law, because where there is no law, there is no transgression.

In the name of the Lord Jesus Christ,......may God bless.

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I believe 1 John 3:6 and 1 John 3:9 is talking from the perspective that if we are IN Christ or while we are abiding in Christ (born again by the "seed" who is Christ), we cannot sin while we are IN Him. Christ cannot live inside us while we sin because Christ cannot agree with sin because He is holy and righteous. We have to be restored back to Christ by repenting of our sin (confession - 1 John 1:9) if we want to be forgiven again. While abiding in Jesus (born of Him, i.e. the "seed"), we cannot sin.

"Whosoever abideth in him sinneth not" ( 1 John 3:6).

It's why 1 John 2:3 says we can have an assurance in knowing Him (Christ) if we find that we are keeping His commandments. For if a person says they know the Lord and they do not keep His commandments, they are a liar and the truth (i.e. Jesus - John 14:6) is not in them.

1 John 3:9 is not saying that we can sin and still be saved as some groups of people suggest. They are saying they cannot commit sin even when they do sin (because Jesus paid for even their present and future sins). This is wrong and it is turning God’s grace into a license for immorality (Jude 1:4).

Jason0047 said:

I already said that there are sins that do not lead unto spiritual death. But as a believer, every saint desires to obey God even in the smallest things (even if it is a command that if disobeyed does not bring spiritual death).

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What do you make of 1 John 1:7 or Hebrews 5:9? Does this sound like a sin and still be saved gospel to you?

We are saved by grace THROUGH faith (Ephesians 2:8-9).
But what does true faith look like?
James says faith without works is dead (James 2:17).
James says he will show you his faith by his works (James 2:18).
Jesus said if you will enter into life, keep the commandments (Matthew 19:17).
Jesus and His followers warned that certain sins can destroy us or have dire consequences to our soul in the afterlife (Matthew 5:28-30, Matthew 6:15, Matthew 12:37, Matthew 25:31-46, 1 John 3:15, Galatians 5:19-21, 1 Corinthians 6:9-10, Revelation 21:8).

“For God hath not called us unto uncleanness, but unto holiness.“ (1 Thessalonians 4:7).

There is always the question of whether to "love" someone who is preaching false doctrine (in this case, of salvation by works) enough to keep engaging with them or whether to obey what it says in Romans 16:17.

Neostarwcc said:

So basically guys Salvation is believing in the death, burial, and resurrection of Jesus Christ. It is also calling upon Jesus and asking him to save us and it is trusting in the Lord to save us. Is that saving faith? Do I have it right now?

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Yes, that is it.

We are saved by God through our faith