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what proof
- Thread starter AtheistShawn
- Start date
The red sea splitting for one....Napolean crossed the red sea as well, was almost killed by that incedent as a matter of fact
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For starters, millions--if not billions--of people believe in it worldwide. How on earth could that many people be disillusioned?
being as polite as i can, most of the world has been taught religion since birth, and are too stubborn to look at any other option
as far as the red sea splitting...links please.
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PRMan
Part-Time Bible Scholar
If you are truly serious about researching the subject, here is a start on all the prophecies spoken by Christ 2000 years ago that are coming true all around us:
http://www.parentalguide.com/Documents/Bible_Desk/proof_bible_true.htm
http://www.parentalguide.com/Documents/Bible_Desk/proof_bible_true.htm
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Rafael
Only time enough for love
Life is proof of God, and each second we live is sustained by God and His power to bring the dimensions together in harmony out of chaos. People say that God does not speak, yet each day of life speaks volumes in a language much more sophisticated than the mere words of men.For starters, millions--if not billions--of people believe in it worldwide. How on earth could that many people be disillusioned?
Many things are unknown to man and our knowledge is very limited. If not, then why do we not deliver from our assumptions about how life began or where any power comes from that could make the sophisticated mechanisms of life? I have yet to see even one so-called simple single celled organism given life by man...yet to hear us speak of such things one would think we have all knowledge and power to do so. Why can't we make a tree or a blade of grass, giving them life? Our words and delusions of grandeur fly in the face of all rational thinking, yet they are accepted because the ego of man is huge - being fallen in nature from birth to sin and die. Death is also proof of what the Bible says when all things were meant to be eternal and timeless.
Science goes hand in hand with the Bible when one puts aside prejudice and really looks at the facts. Intelligent design is what truthfully appears in all life and in all things we are able to perceive in this universe. Even our placement in the galaxy supports us in being able to see the center of the Milky Way and then the rest of the galaxies, enabling us to see all that God has done so we can learn of Him and His revelation.
Check out Lee Strobel's book, "A Case For a Creator" and read it. He was an atheist journalist who set out to once and for all prove God and Christ were not real. He interviews many famous scientists and gives resonable answers to some of the hardest questions asked by atheism.
For me, I never could say that God could not exist. I was an agnostic, believeing that if there was a being of such power, he did not really care for us or just sat back and laughed with a sadistic smile. Well, I was wrong. The Bible pretty well tells us the truth historically and spiritually about man. Archeology is constantly proving the scriptures as accurate, and following the Jewish people through history and seeing the prophecies of the Bible coming true in the Middle East is amazing stuff just by itself. It takes unbiased study, though, that at least gives the benefit of the doubt before making judgment.
Why we think we know so much as a race of beings when our track record is glaringly pitiful when it comes to showing true giving love and kindness towards our fellow man.....well, it just escapes me. The message Jesus brought addressed all these lackings in mankind as proof of our being born dead spiritually with a need to be reborn to the true life that mankind began with that was, and will once again be eternal.
The world is deceived by thinking that all this intelligent design is an accident of billions of years. This universe is not as old as once thought according to the most recent scientific findings, and our perceptions of reality are not really so firmly founded that we can say anything is impossible. Mathematically speaking, we know little of how the dimensions work together to give us the reality we experience. Time and eternity can just as easily be proven to be mathematically relative to the will of God, as it can be to anything else, and the scriptures spoke of these things first - long before men could prove that all things are made of the unseen - molecules and then atoms. The Bible spoke first of the circle of the earth even though many men thought the world flat.
You will find that most of the worlds greatest geniuses and scientists were believers in God, too. So are we delusioned to look to a Creator of such beauty and design?? I think not.
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soulsearching1
Veteran
It's a bit of both scientific/historic fact, and honestly...faith. At the very least, there IS historical writing by non-Christians (some Roman historians- I can find names later, or you can probably Google it, but Lee Strobel's book "A Case for Christ" names some of them) that gives solid evidence that Jesus did in fact exist. Whether or not you believe the things he believed....the evidence becomes a bit more circumstantial, but especially the logical progression of facts surrounding His resurrection make it very hard to discount any of it. And it's more than just Strobel's book that talks about this- there are other sources, so it's not like all of it came from one guy. Also, there's plenty of textual evidence, in the manuscripts that we do have, which are many considering the age of the Bible. And within all of these manuscripts, there is consistency. In fact, the Bible is the most consistent text in historical record.
Secondly, to be honest, it really takes just reading the Bible- I am a liberal Democrat, with a Masters in Literature (which mean A LOT of theory and philosophy), who was agnostic for years. And the New Testament completely made sense. I can't really explain it to you- it just did. So the fact that it hit so hard was enough proof for me.
Secondly, to be honest, it really takes just reading the Bible- I am a liberal Democrat, with a Masters in Literature (which mean A LOT of theory and philosophy), who was agnostic for years. And the New Testament completely made sense. I can't really explain it to you- it just did. So the fact that it hit so hard was enough proof for me.
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Billions believe in Islam. I guess they can't be wrong either.For starters, millions--if not billions--of people believe in it worldwide. How on earth could that many people be disillusioned?
Islam states that Jesus was not crucified. Obviously since billions believe this then it is true.
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But Islam also states that Jesus was a Prophet. So that must be true. Many people were crucified in the times of Istos Christos {Regional Translation at the time of Jesus Christ} and chances are He was one of them. Him being a Prophet of God His blood is devine so therefore it cleasened the Earth of Sin because Jesus the man who knew no sin died so we may follow him into salvation. But we can play this game all day but...
Its not about proof its about Faith.
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RealSorceror
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Not much. The Old Testament is basically shot. The Genesis account didn't literally happen. The world is not 6,000 years old. There was no worldwide flood in recent history. There is no indication in Egyption history that the Moses account was real.
It is possible that the New Testament is based on a historical man, though it would be difficult, if not impossible, to seperate fact from fiction.
Not to mention all the philosophical implications of doctrines such as eternal torment and original sin.
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soulsearching1
Veteran
To comment on the 6,000 year old Earth thing. Not all Christians believe that. The thing is, God does not follow the same concept of time that we do. So a day for him is not necessarily 24 hours. I know many Christians who are of this opinion. However, in the grand scheme of things, human life is incredibly young- even scientists will tell you that.
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RealSorceror
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Good to see that you are open to other possibilities. I usually debate with very literalistic Christians and I realize that "Christianity" contains thousands of denominations with very different views on things.
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soulsearching1
Veteran
Yup, I know people who are incredibly literal and I know others who are not.
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P
PaulAckermann
Guest
If you are sincere in wanting to know, I would read The New Testament Documents: Are They Reliable by FF Bruce.
Here is a link:
http://www.amazon.com/New-Testament..._bbs_sr_1/104-5177238-2303960?ie=UTF8&s=books
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dvd_holc
Senior Veteran
The Talmud which is a recorded record of oral traditions and things of the rabbis...says that Jesus was real though the rabbis of the Talmud don't believe in Jesus. Also, The Twelve Caesars records that all of the Jews were expelled in 49 or 50 AD because of Christ which the bible also records in Acts 18. Josphesus record there was a Jesus even though the records of Jesus are suspect in content...bear minimum is that Jesus is record...also John the Baptist is record in Josphesus. There are many things that point toward the bible being rooted in facts.
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Calminian
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The Case for Christ is a great place to start. But it really depends on your criteria for "proof." What do you mean by proof? What do you consider proof? What do you believe in and why? What current proven foundations are you standing on now? I find that this question is often relative to the individual. Everyone seems to have a different definition of proof. Once you explain what yours is, I (we) may be able to help.
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People say theirs proof because jesus was seen by different peoples during his time. Really theirs not credible proof. People can say ther same about muhhamhud and buhda etc too. Millions of peoples have claimed to see ufo's.
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