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What proof would you need?

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Doveaman

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Imagine that? an atheist saying God did something -- (and capitalizing 'God' as well).
He even quote scriptures to show why our Christian beliefs are wrong. :D

Perhaps he is a sheep in wolf's clothing. :)
 
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Doveaman

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I am trying to understand why educated people would want to be creationists,
Because educated scientists rely on faith when it's convenient.
I was wondering, did any of that long list of creationist scientists become creationists after they became scientists?
No -- Big Bang creationists became creationists because they believe in the Big Bang creation mythology:

In the beginning nothing went BANG.

And then there was a universe.

And the universe expanded faster than light speed.

And scientists saw that is was very good.

And the evening and the morning were 13.7 billion years.
 
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jay1

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Because educated scientists rely on faith when it's convenient.

This is the reason that you are a creationist, not that you believe in the Bible but because educated scientists rely on faith. Seems quite a shallow reason.

No -- Big Bang creationists became creationists because they believe in the Big Bang creation mythology.

Biblical creation = mythology
Big bang theory = scientific hypothesis

If there is evidence for something it is no longer a myth.
 
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CTD

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He even quote scriptures to show why our Christian beliefs are wrong. :D

Perhaps he is a sheep in wolf's clothing. :)
No such thing.

It's really quite telling if you think about it. No surprise the true believers don't practice such, but look at even the false sects and misguided. Even they are not so disingenuous as to pretend to be further from the truth than they are.

All are tempted. We see the enemies of truth employing the tactic non-stop. Yet nobody, even among unbelievers will be observed stooping so low.
 
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jay1

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No such thing.

It's really quite telling if you think about it. No surprise the true believers don't practice such, but look at even the false sects and misguided. Even they are not so disingenuous as to pretend to be further from the truth than they are.

All are tempted. We see the enemies of truth employing the tactic non-stop. Yet nobody, even among unbelievers will be observed stooping so low.

What truth, none of the Bible is established truth. It seems that Christians always claim to be the sole possessors of truth; 38000 denominations proves they don't.
 
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Hentenza

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What truth, none of the Bible is established truth. It seems that Christians always claim to be the sole possessors of truth; 38000 denominations proves they don't.

There aren't 38,000 denominations. Study the data collection and interpretation of the Barret study and you will realize how flawed it is.
 
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Hentenza

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Biblical creation = mythology
Big bang theory = scientific hypothesis

If there is evidence for something it is no longer a myth.

There is no evidence for the big bang "theory". They just can "imagine" it.
 
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Wiccan_Child

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What truth, none of the Bible is established truth. It seems that Christians always claim to be the sole possessors of truth; 38000 denominations proves they don't.
Apologetics can get threads closed.
 
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Wiccan_Child

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There is no evidence for the big bang "theory". They just can "imagine" it.
I submit this graph which contains two curves: one, a prediction made by the Big Bang theory of what the CMBR should look, and the other, the physical observation made by COBE of the CMBR:

800px-Cobeslide36.jpg


Notice the level of overlap between the two curves is so great that they are indistinguishable. That the Big Bang theory could predict the CMBR spectrum so accurately is one of its greatest achievements. As the annotation states, theory and observation agree.

And this is by no means the only evidence.
 
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jay1

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There aren't 38,000 denominations. Study the data collection and interpretation of the Barret study and you will realize how flawed it is.

If there is more than one denomination then my point is made the actual number is immaterial.

Christians can't even agree on the day of the Sabbath, a truth is a truth. How can it be the truth when so many people disagree about it?
 
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Hentenza

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I submit this graph which contains two curves: one, a prediction made by the Big Bang theory of what the CMBR should look, and the other, the physical observation made by COBE of the CMBR:

800px-Cobeslide36.jpg


Notice the level of overlap between the two curves is so great that they are indistinguishable. That the Big Bang theory could predict the CMBR spectrum so accurately is one of its greatest achievements. As the annotation states, theory and observation agree.

And this is by no means the only evidence.

This is hardly conclusive evidence since there are a plethora of theories as to what causes the CMBR. IIRC, several have proposed that the low temperature of hydrogen is the cause for CMBR.
 
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Wiccan_Child

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Please can you provide us your refutation of the perceived evidence for the big bang theory, or are you just imagining that there is none?
Technically, we have to present her with evidence before she can be asked to refute it. For all we know, she may genuinely be unaware of any data put forward as evidence for the Big Bang theory. It's best to give people the benefit of the doubt - I would rather be thought genuinely ignorant of the facts than stubbornly unwilling to change my mind, as the latter stance precludes discussion and debate. Love your neighbour as yourself, so they say.

That all said, I look forward to her rebuttal of the COBE observation.
 
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Hentenza

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Technically, we have to present her with evidence before she can be asked to refute it. For all we know, she may genuinely be unaware of any data put forward as evidence for the Big Bang theory. It's best to give people the benefit of the doubt - I would rather be thought genuinely ignorant of the facts than stubbornly unwilling to change my mind, as the latter stance precludes discussion and debate. Love your neighbour as yourself, so they say.

That all said, I look forward to her rebuttal of the COBE observation.

I'm a he. :wave:
 
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