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What proof would you need?

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There was no ark. There was no flood. There was no garden of eden.
Then the theory of evolution is a lie. There is no biodiversity if there was no Garden of Eden. For example Goats and Sheep were found in the Garden of Eden. Just that little speck of information gives you ALL you need to back up your claim. But you can NOT back up your claim because you are full of hot air. Yet I give you tons and tons and tons of evidence to back up what I say and you give me nothing to back up what you say. When you put the evidence on the scale the scales tips in my direction because you have no evidence on your side of the scale. I have all of science to back up what I am saying and show that it is true. 3500 years and Moses is still undefeated. One person with God is a majority.
 
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jay1

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Then the theory of evolution is a lie. There is no biodiversity if there was no Garden of Eden. For example Goats and Sheep were found in the Garden of Eden. Just that little speck of information gives you ALL you need to back up your claim. But you can NOT back up your claim because you are full of hot air. Yet I give you tons and tons and tons of evidence to back up what I say and you give me nothing to back up what you say. When you put the evidence on the scale the scales tips in my direction because you have no evidence on your side of the scale. I have all of science to back up what I am saying and show that it is true. 3500 years and Moses is still undefeated. One person with God is a majority.


Please provide evidence of where it says that Biodiversity is based on there being a Garden of Eden.

That's like saying we have teeth therefore there must have been a Toothfairy ?
 
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So, the evidence for the flood is what survived on an Ark that we have no proof of, that was built to withstand the flood.
Of course you have proof, you have sheep, you have goats. The Bible is filled with information about what we would have found in Eden. We know that Eden was in the Middle East between the Tigris and Euphrates river. So all you have to do is show that the goats and the sheep were not domesticated in the Middle East 6,000 years ago. The Bible makes a LOT of predictions. If the Bible were NOT true then the Bible would be very easy to falsify. But the Bible is true and all of science verifys that.


questions i have are: If all that survives today are descendants of what was on the Ark, where do penguins come from? Did Noah go to the Antarctic?
Penguins come from a different "Eden". They did not come from the Eden we read about in our Bible in the Middle East in what is now Modern Day Turkey.

What about Kangaroos? Did he go to Australia and get them and then put them back?
Same answer a different biodiverse "eden". That is why if you would study science and study the theory of evolution then you would understand just what God was doing in the Garden of Eden. When science is true and accurate then science again and again will show us that the Bible is true and accurate. Science is limited in what science can do. So do not cry to me about the limits. Do not tell me that science can not do this and science can not do that. I am fully aware how little science can accomplish sometimes.
 
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jay1

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Of course you have proof, you have sheep, you have goats. The Bible is filled with information about what we would have found in Eden. We know that Eden was in the Middle East between the Tigris and Euphrates river. So all you have to do is show that the goats and the sheep were not domesticated in the Middle East 6,000 years ago. The Bible makes a LOT of predictions. If the Bible were NOT true then the Bible would be very easy to falsify. But the Bible is true and all of science verifys that.

Still doesn't prove that the Garden of Eden existed. Easy to falsify? yes, snakes do not talk. There done.


Penguins come from a different "Eden". They did not come from the Eden we read about in our Bible in the Middle East in what is now Modern Day Turkey.

How does a global flood, sufficient to cover all the land on the Earth not affect these other edens?

So there was more than one Garden of Eden? Please quote the bible passage that states this.


Same answer a different biodiverse "eden". That is why if you would study science and study the theory of evolution then you would understand just what God was doing in the Garden of Eden. When science is true and accurate then science again and again will show us that the Bible is true and accurate. Science is limited in what science can do. So do not cry to me about the limits. Do not tell me that science can not do this and science can not do that. I am fully aware how little science can accomplish sometimes.

You seem to imply that there is no limit to what the Bible can do. Sin of Pride?

Personally i wouldn't go proclaiming about the accuracy of the Bible. Science does not backup talking snakes.
 
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Please provide evidence of where it says that Biodiversity is based on there being a Garden of Eden.
You got it backwards again. YOU have to provide evidence that the theory of evolution is not true and there was no Eden in the Middle East.

Let me give you a clue. Everything in the Bible came from somewhere. Do you know anything at all about the theory of evolution. Maybe you need to spend more time in your science class to study darwin and his theory. What does Darwin and the theory of evolution tell us about biodiversity?

"Biodiversity is the degree of variation of life forms within a given ecosystem, biome, or an entire planet. Biodiversity is a measure of the health of ecosystems. Biodiversity is in part a function of climate. In terrestrial habitats, tropical regions are typically rich whereas polar regions support fewer species." wiki

"An ecosystem is a biological environment consisting of all the organisms living in a particular area, as well as all the nonliving (abiotic), physical components of the environment with which the organisms interact, such as air, soil, water and sunlight.[1]"

I have a Sixth Edition Campbell Biology Book if you want to do a study on biodiversity and ecosystems. You can get a used copy real cheap on Amazon.
 
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jay1

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You got it backwards again. YOU have to provide evidence that the theory of evolution is not true and there was no Eden in the Middle East.

Let me give you a clue. Everything in the Bible came from somewhere. Do you know anything at all about the theory of evolution. Maybe you need to spend more time in your science class to study darwin and his theory. What does Darwin and the theory of evolution tell us about biodiversity?

"Biodiversity is the degree of variation of life forms within a given ecosystem, biome, or an entire planet. Biodiversity is a measure of the health of ecosystems. Biodiversity is in part a function of climate. In terrestrial habitats, tropical regions are typically rich whereas polar regions support fewer species." wiki

"An ecosystem is a biological environment consisting of all the organisms living in a particular area, as well as all the nonliving (abiotic), physical components of the environment with which the organisms interact, such as air, soil, water and sunlight.[1]"

I have a Sixth Edition Campbell Biology Book if you want to do a study on biodiversity and ecosystems. You can get a used copy real cheap on Amazon.

I have the Eighth edition, only because the 9th was too expensive (although well done on picking a great textbook. Did you study Biological Sciences?). I do not deny Evolution. I'm studying Biological Sciences at university right now. On Evolutions validity, we seem to be able to agree.

What i do have issue with is that Biodiversity proves that the Garden of Eden existed. I don't believe that it does. It seems thhat you have to rely on the sizeable assumption that the Bible is fact. This has not been proven.

I guess what i am saying is that i question your base assumption.
 
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Loudmouth

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No this is not instability at all. It is about the veracity of dating methods that one accepts. Old earth creationists take the most liberal view possible of the bible. In turn any less liberal views are also in alignment with the bible.

Yes, some creationists claim that the methods work, others don't. That is instability. Even worse, they can't even agree on an age of the Earth within 4 billion years. That is MAJOR instability. Whenever you give an age of the Earth all I need to do is quote other creationists who completely disagree with you. If that is not instability, then evolution does not have instability either.

Same again. Mega or global still aligns with the bible. This is not instability.

Yes, it is. How can a local and a global flood both align with the Bible? They are contradictory. Either a place on the Earth was flooded or it wasn't. Creationists can't decide amongst themselves. That is instability by your own criteria.

Your instability is noted by one theory of evolution that does not provide consistent data.

Then all I have to show is that creationists produce inconsistent data. I have already shown that with the dating methods that different creationists use. Some date the Earth to 6,000 years while others date the Earth to 4.5 billion years. That is a difference of more than 4 billion years. That is inconsistency, and that is instability.

I have already spoken to this as being the one and only chsnge in thinking as opposed to the millions you have over just one theoretical assertion.

False. It is one of many. Creationism is the most unstable model there is.

The major prediction that unites all creationists is there will be no convincing demonstration of evolution in the fossil record, the observed evidence.

So what features must a fossil have in order to be convincing?

The other creationists prediction that supports the first is that kinds will be found to suddenly appear in the fossil record. eg Cambrian, mankind.

How do you determine if a fossil has suddenly appeared or not? What is the creationist method for determining this?

These predictions are stable and validated, for all biblical creationists. The differences are only a matter of details to be worked out. This is not instability it is about not having all the answers, just like you lot.

You forgot the predictions that differ amongst creationists that produce instability in the creationist model, such as the coverage of a flood and the age of the Earth.

Of course, I could use your excuses to brush away your criticisms of evolution. What unites scientists is that chimps and humans share a common ancestor. The differences of which fossils are direct ancestors or cousins are details that are being worked out. See, no instability.

I support the most liberal view of the bible. If more literal interpretations proove valid I am happy to align.

Perfect example of how unstable creationism is.

For example more and more science is supporting a global flood.

Such as?

That is what the scientific mind does, Loudmouth. This is opposed to evolutionary science that invents non plausible scenarios to save itself from falsification.

Says the person offering magical poofing as a mechanism.

The only grand claim that creationists make is that there is a deity, a spirit, that has the power to perform amazing feats.

If only they had evidence to back it up, or a stable model to test.

I think God creating life forms fully functional is not as far fetched as putting human feet on a curved fingered ape, nor suggesting dinosaurs had modern bird feet.

Talk about a biased worldview. At least we can show that humans, apes, dinosaurs, and birds actually exist.

The fossil evidence, the observed evidence, supports creationist paradigms in general. The rest is detail yet to be established conclusively and does not amount to instability.

What features must a fossil have in order to support evolution and falsify creationism?

Of course the biggest point is that there is no evidence for evolution at all that is observed.

So what evidence, if found, would evidence evolution?
 
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Loudmouth

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The evidence is what was on the ARK and saved from the Flood.
If it were not for Noah then they would all have perished.

If the flood never happened and Noah did not exist we would still see the animals we see today.

Therefore, the fact that we see the animals we see today is evidence agains the flood and Noah.

See how that works?

Evolution tells us all about the Biodiversity we would have found in Eden.
Evolution theory is the best evidence we have for the Garden in Eden.

Evolution tells us that humans would not have the genetic diversity we see today if Genesis were true.
 
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Belk

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This is a paradox. The Bible says nothing is impossible for God. Also the Bible says that it is impossible for God to lie.

Why not? People talk to cats, dogs, birds. Why not snakes.


When your cat starts responding in the Queens English let us know.
 
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jay1

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This is a paradox. The Bible says nothing is impossible for God. Also the Bible says that it is impossible for God to lie.

Can God create a rock so heavy he can't pick it up?

Why not? People talk to cats, dogs, birds. Why not snakes.

Hmmm, you may want to rethink that part.
 
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Did you study Biological Sciences?)
I was a theater major. We study a lot about light: additive and subtractive color theorys. Also a lot of drafting, perspective drawings, set construction and we did a lot of drafting and we would build models. But it is very expensive to rent a theater, well over $1000 a day. We were working very hard from 8 in the morning until midnight. Then you may not work for a week or two. So I left theater and ended up doing regular construction & renovation work from 8 to 5. I would have had to move to LA to get a regular 8 to 5 job in the business. That was before the computer animation so I most likely would have gone in that direction if I had moved to LA. All of that is pretty far away from Biology.

images
 
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jay1

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I was a theater major. We study a lot about light: additive and subtractive color theorys. Also a lot of drafting, perspective drawings, set construction and we did a lot of drafting and we would build models. But it is very expensive to rent a theater, well over $1000 a day. We were working very hard from 8 in the morning until midnight. Then you may not work for a week or two. So I left theater and ended up doing regular construction & renovation work from 8 to 5. I would have had to move to LA to get a regular 8 to 5 job in the business. That was before the computer animation so I most likely would have gone in that direction if I had moved to LA. All of that is pretty far away from Biology.

images

Did you work on this building?

You didn't really make any reply to my post. Can you please tell me how you reconcile science with religion? Why does science have to pass through the bible for you?

Can God make a rock that is too heavy for him to pick up?
 
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Belk

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It would seem Professor Higgins that you do not know the difference between Queen talk and snake talk. Wow what a set up, you should get a prize for that one, it is really funny.


It would seem you do not know the difference between talking to and being talked to.
 
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