What price submission?

[CelticRose]

''Submission is a choice--dominance is not.

When a man makes all the decisions, that is dominance. When a wife and husband can't come to agreement on a subject and the wife defers to the man for the sake of harmony in the home, that is submission.

In dominance, the man says, "I am the head of the household and the decision is mine."

In submission, the wife says, "I don't agree with you, but you are the head of this household so the decision is yours."

Dominance is self-centered. Submission is love and peace-centered.''


Exactly.

 

[rosalind110]

Sounds like that man doesn't hasve a clear understanding of submitting. When God said, "Wives submit to your husbands", He didn't mean that the woman is to be a slave or doormat. He needs to read "the Book" again

I would say that this quote covers it all. Although the bible says that wives are to 'submit' to their husbands, it doesn't say that a wife musn't have a say, shouldn't share the decisions, should obey his every command without question, understanding or agreement, or even 'be submissive' to him. My feeling is that, if all is said and done and you still cannot agree as a couple on something , there just comes a point when one of you has to 'give' wholeheatedly despite themselves for the sake of your relationship. That is the point when, if the good of the relationship is of more importance to her than being right, a wife might 'submit' to her husband. Of course, in the case of a loving and caring husband, it might equally go the other way and he might be the one to 'submit'.

Before anyone says indignantly that it never comes to the point where they as husband and wife can't agree mutually on something, I would just add, that if you are lucky enough to have such a relationship then I think that is wonderful. However, for me and many other naturally opinionated people, the temptation is sometimes to hold onto my opinion, largely on principle, even when it becomes apparent that this is not the best thing for the relationship. It is then that I try, (not always successfully) based on the biblical principle, to overcome my attachment to being right and submit to my husband. I will do this even if I still do not agree entirely with my husband's decision in the matter and the result is often that, once the conflict, stubborness and bad feeling has gone from the situation, we will find a third solution that encompasses the best of both our opinions and the worst of neither.

I do not think that this agreement (to submit) extends to anything illegal, immoral or ungodly and I believe that a husband who manipulates this direction in order to try to impose anything of this sort, or to dominate, belittle and physically and emotionally abuse his wife is not the Godly, worthy and caring husband described by St Paul in the same few verses of Ephesians 5.

In short, while you can force capitulation, submission is something that can only be freely and purposefully given and not used as a weapon with which to force and abuse.

Ros

 

[ZiSunka]

In short, while you can force capitulation, submission is something that can only be freely and purposefully given and not used as a weapon with which to force and abuse.

Amen!

 

[Danfrey]

I think you will find that all of the men on this forum agree 100% that submission is something that is given and not something that is forced.

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

I was just listening to the radio on my computer, a station in Missouri. The newscaster read a story about a man who was found guilty of abusing his children by berating his wife in front of them.

The jury found that the man's repeated verbal abuse witnessed by his children, ages 3, 5, 8 and 14, constituted child abuse. The man's defense was that since his wife refused to submit to him in a Biblical manner (he required her to call him master just as Sarah called Abraham), it was his duty as the man of the house to force her to submit. He said that it is God's mandate for every husband to be the master of the household and to force his family to accept that if he had to. Aparently, one of the things his wife had to do for him was to wash his feet and dry them with her hair in front of the children so they could understand that father was head of the household like Christ is the head of the church.

What do you think of a situation like this?

Was the man justified in abusing his wife in front of the children so she would accept her role as a submissive wife?

Was the jury right in finding this man guilty of child abuse?

//If you want to live like Jesus, love your enemies and give up your life for them.//


Your signature says all that is needed.

 

[Crazy Liz]

And the winner of the thread necromancy contest is...

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

The Total Woman
and
Total Joy
by marabel something

explains it pretty good and in line with Scripture and Life and Truth.

 

[Crazy Liz]

Lol!

 

[WayneinMaine]

And the winner of the thread necromancy contest is...

Ya.

 

[handmaiden97]

hmm, intresting post and intresting timing on this discussion. You see recently I met some folks who believe that a man has a right to discipline his wife for her lack of submisison, areas of sin etc. The resoning they shared with me was just as a police officer can implemnt consequences for our breaking the law a husband ought to be able to implement consequences for his wife and children stepping out of line.

I was a bit disturbed to learn how these wives were being treated,(spanked, grounded, put in the corner, basically punnished in simialr and yet harsher ways then one would correct ones children) and yet I was even more concerned and confused that the wife really welcomed it.

Yet in some strange way some of it made sense (the right to enfource ones authority) and so for weeks I have been wrestling this out. Can a husband enforce his authority in the home and if so how?

I agree that a woman is to submit to her husband and Im even open to my husband, or other spiritual authorities calling me on wrong attitudes or actions. Sometimes I get in a funk and quit carrying how my actions, words, attidudes effect those around me. A firm rebuke goes along way. Please note Im not commending the way that man belittled his wife. We are to build one another up with our words. I have had brothers in the lord lovingly yet firmly point out an area of sin in my life and I walked away motivated to do better. I long for that sort of accountability in my life.....and yet I would be very uncomfortable if any authority tried to force me to submit. or if in an attempt to point out a wrong in my life they did so in such away as to be mean with their words or if they tried to manipulate my compliance through punishment or abuse That does not quite seem like love. Grant it Jesus took a whip to those selling in the temple...but more often then not He extended Grace, mercy and forgivness.

I love what was said about the difference between Dominance and Submission. Your words really helped me to clear up my own confusion on the matter and help me too know how to give an answer to my "friends" who believe it is ok to physically correct their spouse as punishment. So again thankyou!!!!

''Submission is a choice--dominance is not.

When a man makes all the decisions, that is dominance. When a wife and husband can't come to agreement on a subject and the wife defers to the man for the sake of harmony in the home, that is submission.

In dominance, the man says, "I am the head of the household and the decision is mine."

In submission, the wife says, "I don't agree with you, but you are the head of this household so the decision is yours."

Dominance is self-centered. Submission is love and peace-centered.''

 

[Crazy Liz]

hmm, intresting post and intresting timing on this discussion.

Sorry, handmaiden, but this discussion was 2 years ago. Someone just made a post recently to bump a dead thread to the top of the list & make it look like a current discussion. Thread necromancy.

The OP is a dear sister who went to be with the Lord last year.

You see recently I met some folks who believe that a man has a right to discipline his wife for her lack of submisison, areas of sin etc. The resoning they shared with me was just as a police officer can implemnt consequences for our breaking the law a husband ought to be able to implement consequences for his wife and children stepping out of line.

I was a bit disturbed to learn how these wives were being treated,(spanked, grounded, put in the corner, basically punnished in simialr and yet harsher ways then one would correct ones children) and yet I was even more concerned and confused that the wife really welcomed it.

Yet in some strange way some of it made sense (the right to enfource ones authority) and so for weeks I have been wrestling this out. Can a husband enforce his authority in the home and if so how?

I agree that a woman is to submit to her husband and Im even open to my husband, or other spiritual authorities calling me on wrong attitudes or actions. Sometimes I get in a funk and quit carrying how my actions, words, attidudes effect those around me. A firm rebuke goes along way. Please note Im not commending the way that man belittled his wife. We are to build one another up with our words. I have had brothers in the lord lovingly yet firmly point out an area of sin in my life and I walked away motivated to do better. I long for that sort of accountability in my life.....and yet I would be very uncomfortable if any authority tried to force me to submit. or if in an attempt to point out a wrong in my life they did so in such away as to be mean with their words or if they tried to manipulate my compliance through punishment or abuse That does not quite seem like love. Grant it Jesus took a whip to those selling in the temple...but more often then not He extended Grace, mercy and forgivness.

I love what was said about the difference between Dominance and Submission. Your words really helped me to clear up my own confusion on the matter and help me too know how to give an answer to my "friends" who believe it is ok to physically correct their spouse as punishment. So again thankyou!!!!

''Submission is a choice--dominance is not.

When a man makes all the decisions, that is dominance. When a wife and husband can't come to agreement on a subject and the wife defers to the man for the sake of harmony in the home, that is submission.

In dominance, the man says, "I am the head of the household and the decision is mine."

In submission, the wife says, "I don't agree with you, but you are the head of this household so the decision is yours."

Dominance is self-centered. Submission is love and peace-centered.''

I've heard something about "Christian Domestic Discipline" lately, too. Someone posted a link to a website about it. As far as I could see it's a sex game & I wouldn't want to judge another couple's sex games. Some women get turned on when they cry, so if a couple agree to play that game, it's their business.

But if it's anything more, then I think the little aphorisms at the end of your post pretty much rule it out.