What people believe does not change the truth...

[Byfaithalone1]

As I see it, the law can be "fulfilled" and no longer be binding on Christians today without calling it done away with!

I agree. That's why I have no way to answer Al's questions regarding destroying the law. The law wasn't destroyed. It still exists.

The law still exists, and we do still uphold the law... for the purpose in which it was created. The law was never intended as a means to salvation, but as a device to teach us that we need a savior. It is a standard to bring people into repentance and acknowledgment that they can't obtain their own salvation by their own law keeping.

It was added for a specific purpose, for a specific audience and for a finite period of time. Even the Israelites are no longer under a schoolmaster. All of us are heirs according to a promise and not according to a slave woman.

Jesus Himself again describes the fulfillment of the "law and the prophets" in the past tense after the cross:

I agree. Good to see you again, Michael.

BFA

 

[Alawishis]

As I see it, the law can be "fulfilled" and no longer be binding on Christians today without calling it done away with!

The law still exists, and we do still uphold the law... for the purpose in which it was created. The law was never intended as a means to salvation, but as a device to teach us that we need a savior. It is a standard to bring people into repentance and acknowledgment that they can't obtain their own salvation by their own law keeping.

Agreed it never was a means of salvation and that has never changed. That was never the purpose of the ten commandments.

Jesus Himself again describes the fulfillment of the "law and the prophets" in the past tense after the cross:

Luke 24:27 -
And beginning with Moses and all the Prophets, he explained to them what was said in all the Scriptures concerning himself.

Luke 24:44-45 -
He said to them, “This is what I told you while I was still with you: Everything must be fulfilled that is written about me in the Law of Moses, the Prophets and the Psalms.” Then he opened their minds so they could understand the Scriptures.

Paul explains this further in Romans 3:21-24

Romans 3:21-24 -
But now a righteousness from God, apart from law, has been made known, to which the Law and the Prophets testify. This righteousness from God comes through faith in Jesus Christ to all who believe. There is no difference, for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God, and are justified freely by his grace through the redemption that came by Christ Jesus.

Michael

Wonderful these are powerful messages. Again if you use the meaning of πληρῶσαι (fulfil) as to "uplift" or "uphold", as my friend recommended it really crystallizes the meaning of these passages.

 

[M-Class]

BFA,

I follow the threads here from time to time (at least once a week), but I don't post much any more. I'm not the type to really want to get into apologetic debates. My "progressive" status turned out to only be a brief stopping place during my study... which led to me leaving entirely. I'm now a former who is attending at a Calvary Chapel.

I jumped in on this thread because I had recently (a couple weeks ago) realized the connection between those scriptures on "the law and the prophets" and since this thread seemed to not be getting anywhere I thought I would throw them into the mix.

Anyway, I don't say much but I do look in here from time to time.

Michael

 

[Alawishis]

BFA,

I follow the threads here from time to time (at least once a week), but I don't post much any more. I'm not the type to really want to get into apologetic debates. My "progressive" status turned out to only be a brief stopping place during my study... which led to me leaving entirely. I'm now a former who is attending at a Calvary Chapel.

I jumped in on this thread because I had recently (a couple weeks ago) realized the connection between those scriptures on "the law and the prophets" and since this thread seemed to not be getting anywhere I thought I would throw them into the mix.

Anyway, I don't say much but I do look in here from time to time.

Michael

Welcome back. I'm pretty new here. I like you typically don't have a lot of time to post here. So please forgive me if my replies don't always come right away.

Maybe you can answer the question BFA is stuck on. What does it mean to destroy a law? If we can't define this precept, seems to me we are proceeding on our own conjecture as to what he's talking about.

 

[Byfaithalone1]

Merry Christmas, Al.

BFA

 

[Alawishis]

Merry Christmas, Al.

BFA

Merry Christmas, BFA. I hope this holiday and all year round are a blessing for you and you family.

 

[Joe67]

...
The truth of the matter is, it doesn't matter what individual people believe or don't believe. If you do your research you will find that God's word is true. The prophecies of God are sure and steadfast and lead us in the direction of what we should believe.
....

2 Tim 2:14-19

14 Of these things put them in remembrance, charging them before the Lord that they strive not about words to no profit, but to the subverting of the hearers.

15 Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.

16 But shun profane and vain babblings: for they will increase unto more ungodliness.

17 And their word will eat as doth a canker: of whom is Hymenaeus and Philetus;

18 Who concerning the truth have erred, saying that the resurrection is past already; and overthrow the faith of some.

19 Nevertheless the foundation of God standeth sure, having this seal, The Lord knoweth them that are his. And, Let every one that nameth the name of Christ depart from iniquity. KJV

Paul was in bonds for his preaching of the resurrection.

The gospel of God's Son, our Lord Jesus, is the power of the resurrection.

This the power of God unto salvation, from faith to faith.

Jesus, our Lord, was raised for our justification. This is "the truth."

2 Thess 2:13-14
13 But we are bound to give thanks alway to God for you, brethren beloved of the Lord, because God hath from the beginning chosen you to salvation through sanctification of the Spirit and belief of the truth:

14 Whereunto he called you by our gospel, to the obtaining of the glory of our Lord Jesus Christ. KJV

Joe

 

[Alawishis]

2 Tim 2:14-19

14 Of these things put them in remembrance, charging them before the Lord that they strive not about words to no profit, but to the subverting of the hearers.

15 Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.

16 But shun profane and vain babblings: for they will increase unto more ungodliness.

17 And their word will eat as doth a canker: of whom is Hymenaeus and Philetus;

18 Who concerning the truth have erred, saying that the resurrection is past already; and overthrow the faith of some.

19 Nevertheless the foundation of God standeth sure, having this seal, The Lord knoweth them that are his. And, Let every one that nameth the name of Christ depart from iniquity. KJV

Paul was in bonds for his preaching of the resurrection.

The gospel of God's Son, our Lord Jesus, is the power of the resurrection.

This the power of God unto salvation, from faith to faith.

Jesus, our Lord, was raised for our justification. This is "the truth."

2 Thess 2:13-14
13 But we are bound to give thanks alway to God for you, brethren beloved of the Lord, because God hath from the beginning chosen you to salvation through sanctification of the Spirit and belief of the truth:

14 Whereunto he called you by our gospel, to the obtaining of the glory of our Lord Jesus Christ. KJV

Joe

True, and wonderful passages.

It is apparent however, that during this time it is not God's will that all people, should have all the truth. Or that any people should have all the truth for that matter.

 

[Byfaithalone1]

It is apparent however, that during this time it is not God's will that all people, should have all the truth. Or that any people should have all the truth for that matter.

I agree.

BFA

 

[Joe67]

True, and wonderful passages.

It is apparent however, that during this time it is not God's will that all people, should have all the truth. Or that any people should have all the truth for that matter.

Alawishis,

The purpose for the Body must need be considered.

Eph 1:22-23
22 And hath put all things under his feet, and gave him to be the head over all things to the church,

23 Which is his body, the fulness of him that filleth all in all. KJV

Rom 12:4-5
4 For as we have many members in one body, and all members have not the same office:

5 So we, being many, are one body in Christ, and every one members one of another. KJV

1 Cor 12:12
12 For as the body is one, and hath many members, and all the members of that one body, being many, are one body: so also is Christ. KJV

1 Cor 12:18-20
18 But now hath God set the members every one of them in the body, as it hath pleased him.

19 And if they were all one member, where were the body?

20 But now are they many members, yet but one body. KJV

Joe

 

[Alawishis]

Alawishis,

The purpose for the Body must need be considered.

Eph 1:22-23
22 And hath put all things under his feet, and gave him to be the head over all things to the church,

23 Which is his body, the fulness of him that filleth all in all. KJV

Rom 12:4-5
4 For as we have many members in one body, and all members have not the same office:

5 So we, being many, are one body in Christ, and every one members one of another. KJV

1 Cor 12:12
12 For as the body is one, and hath many members, and all the members of that one body, being many, are one body: so also is Christ. KJV

1 Cor 12:18-20
18 But now hath God set the members every one of them in the body, as it hath pleased him.

19 And if they were all one member, where were the body?

20 But now are they many members, yet but one body. KJV

Joe

I'm sorry, I must confess, I'm having trouble grasping your point. Can you clarify please? I do agree we are all the part of the body of Christ. As long as we live in the light we have, and strive for truth, turning always to the Lord in all things. The problem being it's easy to say that, it's still another to actually do it.

 

[Joe67]

I'm sorry, I must confess, I'm having trouble grasping your point. Can you clarify please? I do agree we are all the part of the body of Christ. As long as we live in the light we have, and strive for truth, turning always to the Lord in all things. The problem being it's easy to say that, it's still another to actually do it.

Alawishis,

It is a work of grace that is experienced as our Lord told Nicodemus and then he unveiled the fruit of grace in his communication with the woman at the well.

The Head directs the Body, part by part. The Head is fully revealed by all the Body being assembled together in one. It is the mystery of God, that had been hidden from eternal ages, but is now being revealed through Jesus Christ and his Body.

We are his workmanship, his doing.

Rev 5:13
13 And every creature which is in heaven, and on the earth, and under the earth, and such as are in the sea, and all that are in them, heard I saying, Blessing, and honour, and glory, and power, be unto him that sitteth upon the throne, and unto the Lamb for ever and ever. KJV

Rev 22:1
2:1 And he shewed me a pure river of water of life, clear as crystal, proceeding out of the throne of God and of the Lamb. KJV

This is beyond knowledge but we are given to experience the unspeakable gift in one Body.

Joe