What or Who Is Satan?

[DarkCoffeeJazz]

I am not trying to insult you but look it up for yourself, stop trying so hard to be bias. There is no room in searching for God's truth with being bias. Religion is bias; being spiritual is being open.

.... Hahahahahaha.......
*smiles like a rockstar*
I'm sorry. I just found this ironic.
You saying I'm trying to be biased.... hahaha....
I'd say it's the other way around, actually.

Faith of a child

That's what I try for... yet you're trying very hard to "spank" this child aren't you?

I had a JW tell me “I need the faith of a child” and I must admit this is so true; but let us examine this a little more. Adam was innocent, naïve and there is nothing more dangerous then a mind of a child. (Just let my 2 ½ year old grandson play next to the road). You see there is a difference between faith of a child; a childish faith.

I'm sorry, what are you saying, exactly? When someone says "there is a difference" usually they try to compare two things.

Many Christian may be ninety years old and are babes when it comes to spiritual maturity. Oh they may have grown in their church and could tell you the name of every baby born, what time Sunday school begins and who is teaching what; but they will choke on anything spiritual. These brothers and sisters have not matured beyond the baby stage of spiritual development and maturity.

And you SO know they're hearts better than Christ, I suppose.

All they can handle is the milk of the Word which is awesome food for babies; but gives them a great big fat juicy spiritual steak and they would choke; they have not grown spiritual teeth. The deep things of God are hidden from the carnal/ intellectual and you are right you need “the faith of a child”. Most place their faith in all the intellectuals; the people they look up to in their church; God is a spirit not a carnal human brain; His Word is spirit and it is truth

What's wrong with having a little faith in intellectuals? So long as God is your first priority, it's ok to look to someone else for help in your spiritual walk.

A child like faith has nothing to do with having faith in your religion and has everything to have faith in what God is saying to your spirit; sometimes we need to let go of the ols wine skins; for it cannot handle the new wine of revelation.

Quit being poetic. You have yet to post an answer that is short, sweet, and to the point.

Matt 11:25 (NIV) At that time Jesus said, "I praise you, Father, Lord of heaven and earth, because you have hidden these things from the wise and learned, and revealed them to little children

Matt 11:25 (NLT) 25 At that time Jesus prayed this prayer: “O Father, Lord of heaven and earth, thank you for hiding these things from those who think themselves wise and clever, and for revealing them to the childlike.

Matt 11:25 (WE) 25Then Jesus said, `Father, you are Lord of heaven and earth. I thank you because you have hidden these things from people who are wise and know many things. But you have shown them to people who are like children.

Matt 11:25 (TNIV) 25 At that time Jesus said, "I praise you, Father, Lord of heaven and earth, because you have hidden these things from the wise and learned, and revealed them to little children.

And what's your point again? I think I missed it somewhere in the WALL OF TEXT.

 

[DarkCoffeeJazz]

SO you're saying we don't have freewill....
Well, you're wrong on that one. Otherwise, this verse is quite pointless....
And it's a simple one too...
"For God so loved the world that he gave his only son, that whoever believes in him will not perish, but have everlasting life".
That implies a choice. It does not say "no matter if you believe in him or not, you will be automatically saved".
It seems to me like you're trying to reconcile your own views of hell with the truth of hell's existence.
If hell and satan do not exist, then Christ's sacrifice was in vain by like... 100%.
Yet this is what you're slightly suggesting.

 

[Benoni]

FALSE. God never causes ANYONE to sin. Satan influenced Adam and Eve. He tainted perfect Creation. Scripture attests to that fact. There is a difference between "allowing" sin and "causing" sin.


Back to the drawing board, eh?

That iss not what Romans 8:20 is saying. the following are Quotes from scripture not my opinion:

It was planned that way by the One who made it. God planned

It is not that the world wanted it to be that way. God allowed it to be that way.

God allowed it to be that way. Yet there is hope.

All I seem to get from you is your opinion; I give you Biblical Scriptures to back up my understanding and all you give me is your opinion.

God had a savior long before He had a sinner, God knew Adam and Eve would sin, and the Devil did not blindside, pull the wool over God’s eyes.


1 Peter 1:19but with the precious blood of Christ, as of a lamb without blemish and without spot. 20 He indeed was foreordained before the foundation of the world,
but was manifest in these last times for you 21who through Him believe in God, who raised Him from the dead and gave Him glory, so that your faith and hope are in God.

Revelation 13:8
And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world..

God lowered Adam from being created in His image on the Seventh day of creation; to a dust man/soul man; he set Adam up for the fall. If God did not cause the fall then God is not all knowing. What does Romans 8:20 declare (notice this is the Bible not my opinion. Nothing was said in this verse about Satan causing the fall., it was God’s plan.

(NIRV) Romans 8: 20 The created world was bound to fail. But that was not the result of its own choice. It was planned that way by the One who made it. God planned 21 to set the created world free. He didn't want it to rot away completely. Instead, he wanted it to have the same glorious freedom that his children have

 

[Benoni]

SO you're saying we don't have freewill....
Well, you're wrong on that one. Otherwise, this verse is quite pointless....
And it's a simple one too...
"For God so loved the world that he gave his only son, that whoever believes in him will not perish, but have everlasting life".
That implies a choice. It does not say "no matter if you believe in him or not, you will be automatically saved".
It seems to me like you're trying to reconcile your own views of hell with the truth of hell's existence.
If hell and satan do not exist, then Christ's sacrifice was in vain by like... 100%.
Yet this is what you're slightly suggesting.

Let me start with the religious word freewill; the reason I call it religious word because the word freewill is not in the scripture.

Oh sure you can find the word Freewill in the OT when it comes to the Hebrew Freewill offering; BUT that feast has nothing to do with basic salvation.

The Bible is God’s will; His Word and all of God’s it will be accomplished. It is not a matter of freewill; (we are saved by grace not freewill) free will is a non scriptural word. God call/calls/draws/drags people which is totally contrary to the religious man made doctrine from Rome. God draws us or if you dig a little harder He drags us; there is NO FREE WILL when you are being drawn or dragged in fact it totally to the contrary.

Romans 3:11​

There is none that understandeth, there is none that seeketh after God. ​

John 6:44​

"No one can come to me unless the Father who sent me draws​

(drag Greek) him, and I will raise him up at the last day​

​

1670 helkuo (hel-koo'-o); drag ​

​

Jeremiah 18:2​

Arise, and go down to the potter's house, and there I will cause thee to hear my words. 3 Then I went down to the potter's house, and, behold, he wrought a work on the wheels. 4 And the vessel that he made of clay was marred in the hand of the potter: so he made it again another vessel, as seemed good to the potter to make it.​

​

Romans 9:12 It was said to her that the elder [son] should serve the younger [son]) 13 As it is written, Jacob have I loved, but Esau have I hated (held in [1] relative disregard in comparison with My feeling for Jacob).) 14 What shall we conclude then? Is there injustice upon God's part? Certainly not! 15 For He says to Moses, I will have mercy on whom I will have mercy and I will have compassion (pity) on whom I will have compassion.) 16 So then [God's gift] is not a question of human will and human effort, but of God's mercy. [It depends not on one's own willingness nor on his strenuous exertion as in running a race, but on God's having mercy on him.] 17 For the Scripture says to Pharaoh, I have raised you up for this very purpose of displaying My power in [dealing with] you, so that My name may be proclaimed the whole world over. 18 So then He has mercy on whomever He wills (chooses) and He hardens (makes stubborn and unyielding the heart of) whomever He wills. 19 You will say to me, Why then does He still find fault and blame us [for sinning]? For who can resist and withstand His will? 20 But who are you, a mere man, to criticize and contradict and Why have you made me thus? 21 Has the potter no right over the clay, to make out of the same mass (lump) one vessel for beauty and distinction and honorable use, and another for menial or ignoble and dishonorable use?


Yes the bias translation des say that, but look at the original language.

John 3:16
I have always hated the way traditional teaching has used this awesome verse in the Bible on one hand to point to salvation which it does; but on the other hand condemn the rest of humanity which it does not

(KJV) John 3 14 And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of man be lifted up:15 That whosoever believeth in him should (not perish,) should be omitted), but have eternal life.16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that (whosoever, should be "all") (believeth, should be that "all believing") in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. 17 For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.

Now we will look at a passage in the New Testament; viz., that precious declaration in John 3:16,
"God so loved the world that he gave his only begotten Son," etc. We will take into consideration verses 14-17 inclusive; first I will clear up several points of obscurity and error and then give the rendering as it should be.

In verse 15 the words "not perish but" should be omitted; according to the best authorities they have been interpolated, probably from the following verse; they are left out from the New Version.

Strong's Whosoever 3956 pas (pas);including all the forms of declension; apparently a primary word; all,
any, every, the whole: KJV-- all (manner of, means), alway (-s), any (one), X daily, + ever, every (one, way), as many as, + no (-thing), X thoroughly, whatsoever, whole, whosoever.

The word "whosoever" in the l5th and l6th verses should be rendered "all"; in the original it is
the word usually rendered all throughout the New Testament; it occurs hundreds of times, and it is rendered
"all" in over nine hundred instances, and whosoever in only about forty; the rendering all then is plainly the usual one.

The word rendered "believeth," in the original is a participle, "believing"; the clause should read, "that all,
believing in him should not," etc. The words, "believing in him," are explanatory, telling us how "all" are to be saved, viz, by believing in him. In the common version it will be noticed that the participle is, without authority, rendered by the verb "believeth," and the words, "whosoever believeth in him" are thereby made to have a conditional force, as though it read, if they believe in him, implying that some will not believe in him, and hence will perish, and be lost eternally.

But this is not a correct rendering of the original, as I have shown above; the clause is not conditional, but is thrown in, as a participial form, as explanatory of the manner of the world's salvation, by believing in him; this view is fully confirmed by the l9th verse; "for God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world but that the world through him might be saved."

Might be saved: Stong's 4982 sozo (sode'-zo); from a primary sos (contraction for obsolete saoz, "safe");
to save, i.e. deliver or protect (literally or figuratively): KJV-- heal, preserve, save (self), do well, be
(make) whole. The word “might” was added by the translator

Now I will give the whole passage as it ought to be.

"As Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the son of man be lifted up, that all,
believing in him. might have æonial life. For God so loved the world that he gave his only begotten Son,
that all, believing in him, might not perish, but have æonial life. For God sent not his Son into the world
to condemn the world but that the world through him be saved."

Thus truthfully translated this passage is one of the grandest and most sweeping declarations of
the final universal triumph of God's grace in the salvation of the world, contained in the Bible. It is positive and direct, and mighty enough, could they only appreciate it, to utterly silence all those narrow,
shortsighted souls who think that God will only gain a partial victory over the devil, that he will not save
the world, but only a portion of it, a vast number being eternally lost. It is very plain why the translators
of the common version handled this passage as they did. Their creed would not allow them to accept it just as it reads; it required only a slight change to make it conform to their own idea. They insert the unusual rendering "whosoever," change believing to "believeth," and then, punctuating it accordingly, the passage is "tinkered" so as to harmonize with the creed. Thank God for deliverance from man made creeds!

"Let God be true, though every man be false" (Rom. 3:4).

Young’s Literal John 3:14 `And as Moses did lift up the serpent in the wilderness, so it behoveth the Son of Man to be lifted up, 15 that every one who is believing in him may not perish, but may have life age-during, 16 for God did so love the world, that His Son -- the only begotten -- He gave, that every one who is believing in him may not perish, but may have life age-during. 17 For God did not send His Son to the world that he may judge the world, but that the world may be saved through him;

 

[Benoni]

Matthe 6:9-15 NIV

9"This, then, is how you should pray:
" 'Our Father in heaven,
hallowed be your name,
10your kingdom come,
your will be done
on earth as it is in heaven.
11Give us today our daily bread.
12Forgive us our debts,
as we also have forgiven our debtors.
13And lead us not into temptation,
but deliver us from the evil one.[a]' 14For if you forgive men when they sin against you, your heavenly Father will also forgive you. 15But if you do not forgive men their sins, your Father will not forgive your sins.

Why would Christ tell us to pray to the Father to not lead us into temptation if God tempted? It's simply unbiblical. Deliverance from the evil one, who is satan, is deliverance from temptation. Resist the devil and he shall flee as it also says.

Since you don't have alot of time for big answers then I'll ask one simple question. If what we call the lake of fire is meant for spiritual refinement, then why did Christ die?

Jesus was tempted and over came; Adam was tempted and was orained to fall.


Jesus never sinned, Adam sinned.


Big difference beteen temptation and sin.


Jesus died for all men: Reverse the Curse.....


Luke 3: 6

(Amp) And all mankind shall see (behold and [a]understand


and at last acknowledge) the salvation of God


(the deliverance from eternal death decreed by God).​

Romans 5:18-20 (Weymouth’s)​

​

It follows then just as the result of a single transgression is a condemnation which to the whole race, so also is the result of a single degree of righteousness is a life giving acquittal which extends to the whole race. (19) for as thought the disobedience of one individual the mass of mankind were constituted as sinners, so also though the obedience of one, the mass of mankind will be constituted righteous. Now law was brought in later on so that the transgression might increase, but sin increased, grace is overflowed.​

1 Corinthians 15:22-24​

22For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive.​

23But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ's at his coming.​

 

[LogosRhema]

That's great and all, but one verse will debunk you.

Romans 5
1Therefore, since we have been justified through faith, we[a]have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ, 2through whom we have gained access by faith into this grace in which we now stand. And we[b] rejoice in the hope of the glory of God. 3Not only so, but we[c] also rejoice in our sufferings, because we know that suffering produces perseverance...

Salvation is two fold. Faith and Grace. It's written all over Romans. Faith requires choice on our part. You cannot have faith without choice, thus, in a logical sense is free will. You may call it a religious word, but the fact still stands through logical deduction what it means. Unless you consider all logical conclusions as religious assortments...

 

[Benoni]

That's great and all, but one verse will debunk you.

Romans 5
1Therefore, since we have been justified through faith, we[a]have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ, 2through whom we have gained access by faith into this grace in which we now stand. And we[b] rejoice in the hope of the glory of God. 3Not only so, but we[c] also rejoice in our sufferings, because we know that suffering produces perseverance...

Salvation is two fold. Faith and Grace. It's written all over Romans. Faith requires choice on our part. You cannot have faith without choice, thus, in a logical sense is free will. You may call it a religious word, but the fact still stands through logical deduction what it means. Unless you consider all logical conclusions as religious assortments...

Yes you are justified by faithBUT….you have no faith until God draws you…. Bringing you to that point of faith. You do not come to faith by the religious word freewill or choice; you come to faith by the grace of God. By the irresistible drawing of God; by God dragging, forcing you, drawing you; here is no freewill or choice in drawing or dragging…..

John 6:44 No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw (Gk(drag) him: and I will raise him up at the last day.

John 12:32 And I, if I be lifted up from the earth, will draw (Gk(drag) all men unto me.

1670 helkuo (hel-koo'-o);or helko (hel'-ko); probably akin to 138; to drag (literally or figuratively):




We called a SERVANT, but they are also referred to as "Mine elect." The word literally means: to be chosen. And never is the operation is more clearly, than when it comes to God's choosing a people for Himself. "I will have mercy on whom I will have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I will have compassion. So then it is not of him that willeth, nor of him that runneth, but of God that sheweth mercy." (Romans 9:15-16).

We are chosen-- not because of anything in us, no merit, no desirableness, for we all have "sinned, and come short of the glory of God." Nevertheless, in mercy He says, "Ye have not chosen Me, but I have chosen you, and ordained you, that ye should go and bring forth fruit, and that your fruit should remain." (John 15:16). He blinds whom He blinds, and He chooses whom He wills, not on a whim, nor with caprice, but in infinite wisdom, as He works all things together after the counsel of His own will, and with a view towards the goal when ultimately "in Christ shall ALL be made alive." Praise His name!
Called a seed, called a servant, called His chosen, they are also spoken of as "an INHERITOR of My mountains." The Hebrew word for "inheritor" is "yarash" meaning: to occupy, be in possession; and holds within it the thought of driving out any previous tenants, so as to possess their place.

Give me one example in the Bible where man chooses God?

 

[LogosRhema]

I'll write a response later this evening. Interesting discussion. You bring up rather good points, but I do have a rebuttal for you. I have classes this afternoon/evening, so I'll try to get back with you.

 

[Benoni]

I'll write a response later this evening. Interesting discussion. You bring up rather good points, but I do have a rebuttal for you. I have classes this afternoon/evening, so I'll try to get back with you.

I totally understand; I have plenty more.

 

[SoundCard]

Benoni, you never answered my last question. If what we call the lake of fire is a place of purification, then why did Christ die?
You already posted that He died for all sins, yes, but, if you're claiming that the lake of fire is purifying for all people, then He died for nothing according to your logic.

 

[Bro.T]

That's great and all, but one verse will debunk you.

Romans 5
1Therefore, since we have been justified through faith, we[a]have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ, 2through whom we have gained access by faith into this grace in which we now stand. And we[b] rejoice in the hope of the glory of God. 3Not only so, but we[c] also rejoice in our sufferings, because we know that suffering produces perseverance...

Salvation is two fold. Faith and Grace. It's written all over Romans. Faith requires choice on our part. You cannot have faith without choice, thus, in a logical sense is free will. You may call it a religious word, but the fact still stands through logical deduction what it means. Unless you consider all logical conclusions as religious assortments...

(Gal. 3:11) But that no man is justified by the law in the sight of God, it is evident: for, THE JUST SHALL LIVE BY FAITH. [FONT=Times New Roman,Times New Roman][FONT=Times New Roman,Times New Roman]This didn’t start in the New Testament, Paul was only quoting scripture, and the just has always lived by their faith. [/FONT][/FONT](Hab. 2:4) Behold, his soul which is lifted up is not upright in him: but the just shall live by his faith. [FONT=Times New Roman,Times New Roman][FONT=Times New Roman,Times New Roman]The just shall live by his belief (faith), and how do you show the Lord that you believe in him? By your obedience to his word. [/FONT][/FONT]

(1Tim. 6:17-19) (v.17) Charge them that are rich in this world, that they be not high-minded, nor trust in uncertain riches, but in the living God, who giveth us richly all things to enjoy; (v.18) That they do good, that they be rich in good works, ready to distribute, willing to communicate; (v.19) Laying up in store for themselves a good foundation against the time to come, that they may lay hold on eternal life.

[FONT=Times New Roman,Times New Roman][FONT=Times New Roman,Times New Roman]Riches and gains that is the doctrine of today, they are preaching the gospel of prosperity and not the gospel of the coming of the kingdom of God. But the Lord said to charge them that are rich in this world that they be not high-minded, but that they should be rich in good works that they may lay hold on eternal life. [/FONT][/FONT]

[FONT=Times New Roman,Times New Roman][FONT=Times New Roman,Times New Roman]([/FONT][/FONT]James 2:14-18, 20-26) (v.14) What doth it profit, my brethren, though a man say he hath faith, and have not works? Can faith save him? (v.15) If a brother or sister be naked, and destitute of a daily food, (v.16) And one of you say unto them, Depart in peace, be ye warmed and filled; notwithstanding ye give them not those things which are needful to the body; what doth it profit?

[FONT=Times New Roman,Times New Roman][FONT=Times New Roman,Times New Roman]If someone came to you hungry and needed clothes and all you told them was peace be unto you, and God bless you, be ye warmed and filled. All you did was give lip service, no works, you didn’t help the problem. [/FONT][/FONT]

(v.17) Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone. [FONT=Times New Roman,Times New Roman][FONT=Times New Roman,Times New Roman]The bible has been telling you all alone that you must have fruits to prove your faith. [/FONT][/FONT](v.18) Yea, a man may say, Thou hast faith, and I have works: shew me thy faith without thy works, and I will shew thee my faith by my works. [FONT=Times New Roman,Times New Roman][FONT=Times New Roman,Times New Roman]True faith goes hand in hand with good works. [/FONT][/FONT](v.20) But wilt thou know, O vain man, that faith without works is dead?

[FONT=Times New Roman,Times New Roman][FONT=Times New Roman,Times New Roman]Did you know that? Has anybody ever read this verse to you? How can you, after reading this verse ever say again that we need not work? You can have all the faith you want, but if you have no works to go along with that faith, that faith is in vain, that faith is dead. [/FONT][/FONT]

(v.21) Was not Abraham our father justified by works, when he had offered Isaac his son upon the altar? [FONT=Times New Roman,Times New Roman][FONT=Times New Roman,Times New Roman]We read where Abraham, the father of the faithful showed the Lord his faith by his works. [/FONT][/FONT]

(v.22) Seest thou how faith wrought with his works, and by works was faith made perfect? (v.23) And the scripture was fulfilled which saith, ABRAHAM BELIEVED GOD AND IT WAS IMPUTED UNTO HIM FOR RIGHTEOUSNESS: and he was called the friend of God. (v.24) Ye see then how that by works a man is Justified, and not by faith only.

[FONT=Times New Roman,Times New Roman][FONT=Times New Roman,Times New Roman]Do you see that also? Do you understand that you need works to go along with that faith; if you love and fear God then you should have no problem obeying his commandments. [/FONT][/FONT]

(v.25) Likewise also was not Ra’-hab the harlot justified by works, when she received the messengers, and had sent them out another way? [FONT=Times New Roman,Times New Roman][FONT=Times New Roman,Times New Roman]Ra’-hab showed her faith in God and her fear of God by doing good works. [/FONT][/FONT](v.26) For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also.

[FONT=Times New Roman,Times New Roman][FONT=Times New Roman,Times New Roman]Take it or leave it, but this is the true uncut word of God. Just as the body is dead when you take away the spirit (breath) so faith is dead if you have no works.[/FONT][/FONT]

[FONT=Times New Roman,Times New Roman][FONT=Times New Roman,Times New Roman]peace in jesus name

[/FONT][/FONT]

 

[LogosRhema]

(Gal. 3:11) But that no man is justified by the law in the sight of God, it is evident: for, THE JUST SHALL LIVE BY FAITH. [FONT=Times New Roman,Times New Roman][FONT=Times New Roman,Times New Roman]This didn’t start in the New Testament, Paul was only quoting scripture, and the just has always lived by their faith. [/FONT][/FONT](Hab. 2:4) Behold, his soul which is lifted up is not upright in him: but the just shall live by his faith. [FONT=Times New Roman,Times New Roman][FONT=Times New Roman,Times New Roman]The just shall live by his belief (faith), and how do you show the Lord that you believe in him? By your obedience to his word. [/FONT][/FONT]

(1Tim. 6:17-19) (v.17) Charge them that are rich in this world, that they be not high-minded, nor trust in uncertain riches, but in the living God, who giveth us richly all things to enjoy; (v.18) That they do good, that they be rich in good works, ready to distribute, willing to communicate; (v.19) Laying up in store for themselves a good foundation against the time to come, that they may lay hold on eternal life.

[FONT=Times New Roman,Times New Roman][FONT=Times New Roman,Times New Roman]Riches and gains that is the doctrine of today, they are preaching the gospel of prosperity and not the gospel of the coming of the kingdom of God. But the Lord said to charge them that are rich in this world that they be not high-minded, but that they should be rich in good works that they may lay hold on eternal life. [/FONT][/FONT]

[FONT=Times New Roman,Times New Roman][FONT=Times New Roman,Times New Roman]([/FONT][/FONT]James 2:14-18, 20-26) (v.14) What doth it profit, my brethren, though a man say he hath faith, and have not works? Can faith save him? (v.15) If a brother or sister be naked, and destitute of a daily food, (v.16) And one of you say unto them, Depart in peace, be ye warmed and filled; notwithstanding ye give them not those things which are needful to the body; what doth it profit?

[FONT=Times New Roman,Times New Roman][FONT=Times New Roman,Times New Roman]If someone came to you hungry and needed clothes and all you told them was peace be unto you, and God bless you, be ye warmed and filled. All you did was give lip service, no works, you didn’t help the problem. [/FONT][/FONT]

(v.17) Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone. [FONT=Times New Roman,Times New Roman][FONT=Times New Roman,Times New Roman]The bible has been telling you all alone that you must have fruits to prove your faith. [/FONT][/FONT](v.18) Yea, a man may say, Thou hast faith, and I have works: shew me thy faith without thy works, and I will shew thee my faith by my works. [FONT=Times New Roman,Times New Roman][FONT=Times New Roman,Times New Roman]True faith goes hand in hand with good works. [/FONT][/FONT](v.20) But wilt thou know, O vain man, that faith without works is dead?

[FONT=Times New Roman,Times New Roman][FONT=Times New Roman,Times New Roman]Did you know that? Has anybody ever read this verse to you? How can you, after reading this verse ever say again that we need not work? You can have all the faith you want, but if you have no works to go along with that faith, that faith is in vain, that faith is dead. [/FONT][/FONT]

(v.21) Was not Abraham our father justified by works, when he had offered Isaac his son upon the altar? [FONT=Times New Roman,Times New Roman][FONT=Times New Roman,Times New Roman]We read where Abraham, the father of the faithful showed the Lord his faith by his works. [/FONT][/FONT]

(v.22) Seest thou how faith wrought with his works, and by works was faith made perfect? (v.23) And the scripture was fulfilled which saith, ABRAHAM BELIEVED GOD AND IT WAS IMPUTED UNTO HIM FOR RIGHTEOUSNESS: and he was called the friend of God. (v.24) Ye see then how that by works a man is Justified, and not by faith only.

[FONT=Times New Roman,Times New Roman][FONT=Times New Roman,Times New Roman]Do you see that also? Do you understand that you need works to go along with that faith; if you love and fear God then you should have no problem obeying his commandments. [/FONT][/FONT]

(v.25) Likewise also was not Ra’-hab the harlot justified by works, when she received the messengers, and had sent them out another way? [FONT=Times New Roman,Times New Roman][FONT=Times New Roman,Times New Roman]Ra’-hab showed her faith in God and her fear of God by doing good works. [/FONT][/FONT](v.26) For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also.

[FONT=Times New Roman,Times New Roman][FONT=Times New Roman,Times New Roman]Take it or leave it, but this is the true uncut word of God. Just as the body is dead when you take away the spirit (breath) so faith is dead if you have no works.[/FONT][/FONT]

[FONT=Times New Roman,Times New Roman][FONT=Times New Roman,Times New Roman]peace in jesus name

[/FONT][/FONT]

I haven't gotten into the technicalities of it all. I was briefly stating a small portion of a bigger teaching, but I do agree.

 

[Bro.T]

I haven't gotten into the technicalities of it all. I was briefly stating a small portion of a bigger teaching, but I do agree.

praise the lord

peace in jesus name

 

[Benoni]

Benoni, you never answered my last question. If what we call the lake of fire is a place of purification, then why did Christ die?
You already posted that He died for all sins, yes, but, if you're claiming that the lake of fire is purifying for all people, then He died for nothing according to your logic.

Nothing, Nothing???? I did answer your question He reverse the curse..

You all claim Christ died for a very few; and billions will be tortured forever and ever; if that is the case He died for nothing.

Read the following:

"so also is the result of a single degree of righteousness is a life giving acquittal which extends to the whole race"

"so also though the obedience of one, the mass of mankind will be constituted righteous"

Romans 5:18-20 (Weymouth’s)

It follows then just as the result of a single transgression is a condemnation which to the whole race, so also is the result of a single degree of righteousness is a life giving acquittal which extends to the whole race. (19) for as thought the disobedience of one individual the mass of mankind were constituted as sinners, so also though the obedience of one, the mass of mankind will be constituted righteous. Now law was brought in later on so that the transgression might increase, but sin increased, grace is overflowed​

 

[Benoni]

(Gal. 3:11) But that no man is justified by the law in the sight of God, it is evident: for, THE JUST SHALL LIVE BY FAITH. [FONT=Times New Roman,Times New Roman][FONT=Times New Roman,Times New Roman]This didn’t start in the New Testament, Paul was only quoting scripture, and the just has always lived by their faith. [/FONT][/FONT](Hab. 2:4) Behold, his soul which is lifted up is not upright in him: but the just shall live by his faith. [FONT=Times New Roman,Times New Roman][FONT=Times New Roman,Times New Roman]The just shall live by his belief (faith), and how do you show the Lord that you believe in him? By your obedience to his word. [/FONT][/FONT]

(1Tim. 6:17-19) (v.17) Charge them that are rich in this world, that they be not high-minded, nor trust in uncertain riches, but in the living God, who giveth us richly all things to enjoy; (v.18) That they do good, that they be rich in good works, ready to distribute, willing to communicate; (v.19) Laying up in store for themselves a good foundation against the time to come, that they may lay hold on eternal life.

[FONT=Times New Roman,Times New Roman][FONT=Times New Roman,Times New Roman]Riches and gains that is the doctrine of today, they are preaching the gospel of prosperity and not the gospel of the coming of the kingdom of God. But the Lord said to charge them that are rich in this world that they be not high-minded, but that they should be rich in good works that they may lay hold on eternal life. [/FONT][/FONT]

[FONT=Times New Roman,Times New Roman][FONT=Times New Roman,Times New Roman]([/FONT][/FONT]James 2:14-18, 20-26) (v.14) What doth it profit, my brethren, though a man say he hath faith, and have not works? Can faith save him? (v.15) If a brother or sister be naked, and destitute of a daily food, (v.16) And one of you say unto them, Depart in peace, be ye warmed and filled; notwithstanding ye give them not those things which are needful to the body; what doth it profit?

[FONT=Times New Roman,Times New Roman][FONT=Times New Roman,Times New Roman]If someone came to you hungry and needed clothes and all you told them was peace be unto you, and God bless you, be ye warmed and filled. All you did was give lip service, no works, you didn’t help the problem. [/FONT][/FONT]

(v.17) Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone. [FONT=Times New Roman,Times New Roman][FONT=Times New Roman,Times New Roman]The bible has been telling you all alone that you must have fruits to prove your faith. [/FONT][/FONT](v.18) Yea, a man may say, Thou hast faith, and I have works: shew me thy faith without thy works, and I will shew thee my faith by my works. [FONT=Times New Roman,Times New Roman][FONT=Times New Roman,Times New Roman]True faith goes hand in hand with good works. [/FONT][/FONT](v.20) But wilt thou know, O vain man, that faith without works is dead?

[FONT=Times New Roman,Times New Roman][FONT=Times New Roman,Times New Roman]Did you know that? Has anybody ever read this verse to you? How can you, after reading this verse ever say again that we need not work? You can have all the faith you want, but if you have no works to go along with that faith, that faith is in vain, that faith is dead. [/FONT][/FONT]

(v.21) Was not Abraham our father justified by works, when he had offered Isaac his son upon the altar? [FONT=Times New Roman,Times New Roman][FONT=Times New Roman,Times New Roman]We read where Abraham, the father of the faithful showed the Lord his faith by his works. [/FONT][/FONT]

(v.22) Seest thou how faith wrought with his works, and by works was faith made perfect? (v.23) And the scripture was fulfilled which saith, ABRAHAM BELIEVED GOD AND IT WAS IMPUTED UNTO HIM FOR RIGHTEOUSNESS: and he was called the friend of God. (v.24) Ye see then how that by works a man is Justified, and not by faith only.

[FONT=Times New Roman,Times New Roman][FONT=Times New Roman,Times New Roman]Do you see that also? Do you understand that you need works to go along with that faith; if you love and fear God then you should have no problem obeying his commandments. [/FONT][/FONT]

(v.25) Likewise also was not Ra’-hab the harlot justified by works, when she received the messengers, and had sent them out another way? [FONT=Times New Roman,Times New Roman][FONT=Times New Roman,Times New Roman]Ra’-hab showed her faith in God and her fear of God by doing good works. [/FONT][/FONT](v.26) For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also.

[FONT=Times New Roman,Times New Roman][FONT=Times New Roman,Times New Roman]Take it or leave it, but this is the true uncut word of God. Just as the body is dead when you take away the spirit (breath) so faith is dead if you have no works.[/FONT][/FONT]

[FONT=Times New Roman,Times New Roman][FONT=Times New Roman,Times New Roman]peace in jesus name [/FONT]

[/FONT]

Your spirit is far more then your breath. In Genesis 1 man was made in God's image; God is a spirit. The spirit is that part of God in each one of us. Who knows how long Adam walk with God in the cool (spirit) of the day before God lowered him to dust and soul. It was until the seventh day Genesis 2:7 that God breathed into Adam's nostiles and Adam was lowered from pure spirit to a living soul.

 

[Floatingaxe]

Your spirit is far more then your breath. In Genesis 1 man was made in God's image; God is a spirit. The spirit is that part of God in each one of us. Who knows how long Adam walk with God in the cool (spirit) of the day before God lowered him to dust and soul. It was until the seventh day Genesis 2:7 that God breathed into Adam's nostiles and Adam was lowered from pure spirit to a living soul.

What is this? God created Adam on the sixth day--spirit, soul and body.

I can see that many people simply misinterpret Scripture and most of them don't belong to churches. Do you go to church, Benoni? Do you have godly teachers, leaders and pastors?

 

[Benoni]

What is this? God created Adam on the sixth day--spirit, soul and body.

I can see that many people simply misinterpret Scripture and most of them don't belong to churches. Do you go to church, Benoni? Do you have godly teachers, leaders and pastors?

Yes God created Adam on the sixth day in His image and likeness; but there is still more, on the seventh day God lowered man from spirit to a soul man a dust man, notice Genesis 2:7.

Genesis 1:27 So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them.
28And God blessed them, and God said unto them, Be fruitful, and multiply, and replenish the earth, and subdue it: and have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over every living thing that moveth upon the earth.

Then we get to the next chapter and who how short or long this period is:

Genesis 2: 1Thus the heavens and the earth were finished, and all the host of them.
2And on the seventh day God ended his work which he had made; and he rested on the seventh day from all his work which he had made.

Notice this is a totally new day, seventh day; nothing happen to Adam here in reference to His spirit; he was already created in God’s image on the sixth day; seeing God is a spirit that is when created Adam’s spirit.

Gen. 2:7And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul.

Now God planted a Garden on the seventh day, not sixth; where did Adam live before? What kind of body did he have; I mean he walked with God in the Cool (spirit) of the day.

Gen 2: 8And the LORD God planted a garden eastward in Eden; and there he put the man whom he had formed.

Then we get the deep sleep:

Gen: 2:21And the LORD God caused a deep sleep to fall upon Adam, and he slept: and he took one of his ribs, and closed up the flesh instead thereof;
Gen 3:6And when the woman saw that the tree was good for food, and that it was pleasant to the eyes, and a tree to be desired to make one wise, she took of the fruit thereof, and did eat, and gave also unto her husband with her; and he did eat

Are we still asleep spiritually speaking, I know we are.
Adam did not die physically until he died at age 930 in Genesis 5:5; but Adam did die spiritually from the presence of God Shekinah glory when he sinned.

 

[Floatingaxe]

Yes God created Adam on the sixth day in His image and likeness; but there is still more, on the seventh day God lowered man from spirit to a soul man a dust man, notice Genesis 2:7.

Genesis 1:27So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them.
28And God blessed them, and God said unto them, Be fruitful, and multiply, and replenish the earth, and subdue it: and have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over every living thing that moveth upon the earth.

Then we get to the next chapter and who how short or long this period is:

Genesis 2: 1Thus the heavens and the earth were finished, and all the host of them.
2And on the seventh day God ended his work which he had made; and he rested on the seventh day from all his work which he had made.

Notice this is a totally new day, seventh day; nothing happen to Adam here in reference to His spirit; he was already created in God’s image on the sixth day; seeing God is a spirit that is when created Adam’s spirit.

Gen. 2:7And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul.

Now God planted a Garden on the seventh day, not sixth; where did Adam live before? What kind of body did he have; I mean he walked with God in the Cool (spirit) of the day.

Gen 2: 8And the LORD God planted a garden eastward in Eden; and there he put the man whom he had formed.

Then we get the deep sleep:

Gen: 2:21And the LORD God caused a deep sleep to fall upon Adam, and he slept: and he took one of his ribs, and closed up the flesh instead thereof;
Gen 3:6And when the woman saw that the tree was good for food, and that it was pleasant to the eyes, and a tree to be desired to make one wise, she took of the fruit thereof, and did eat, and gave also unto her husband with her; and he did eat

Are we still asleep spiritually speaking, I know we are.
Adam did not die physically until he died at age 930 in Genesis 5:5; but Adam did die spiritually from the presence of God Shekinah glory when he sinned.

You are wrong. There seems to be confusion over the interpretation of simple Scripture. I suppose a recap and additional details are a problem???

 

[Benoni]

You are wrong. There seems to be confusion over the interpretation of simple Scripture. I suppose a recap and additional details are a problem???

First of all I quoted the scripture, and then I expressed its meaning, I layed it out by day and what happened on that day using scripture. You can point fingers all you want; but you said NOTHING. If I am wrong then show me. What are you talking about. You are not the final authority, you are just being rude with nothing to bac it up.

 

[Benoni]

Many quote the scripture Matt 7:13-15 13 Enter ye in at the strait gate: for wide is the gate, and broad is the way, that leadeth to destruction, and many there be which go in thereat: 14 Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it. 15 Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves. KJV

A narrow way approach God’s Word with no, I mean no preconceived bias. No religious organization to replace the Christ with in you.

What is Christ, the word Christ means anointing? The vast majority of Christianity follows creeds, dogmas, denominations, not the Christ with in them.

To follow something other then the Christ within; makes you against the Christ, anti anointing or anti Christ; SAMETHING…..


David was king; He was God’s anointed King; not like Saul who was also anointed by God; but chosen by the people; like many ministries in the church (little c) realm today. David was one of those special people God called, anointed and was anointed as child. Today’s ministry is chosen by men. I have found men of God that I know anointed by the deepness of their understanding not because they have been voted in or out by some church committee. David walked for many years and knew He had an anointing; but he kept it to himself and understood that Saul was God’s anointed; that is until the appointed time. I think we are better off to wait for God to anoint God’s chosen vessel then to anoint our own. Also let us not forget Solomon who was also anointed of God; but because of his marring and turning his heart to false idols he became corrupt. Reminds me of all the different religions out there that man has married into; there is only one way; Christ with in.