What or Who Is Satan?

[Bro.T]

So what is the point of the scripture and the bolded words tanzel? What are you trying to say.

I find that some people don't believe, satan is angle, or the lake of fire,
or how the Lord uses satan, or is there and end of satan, the mark of the
beast. All this covers those question.

peace in jesus

 

[Benoni]

I find that some people don't believe, satan is angle, or the lake of fire,
or how the Lord uses satan, or is there and end of satan, the mark of the
beast. All this covers those question.

peace in jesus

Lake of Fire is symbolism.
Satan is not Lucifer.
Mark of the beast is your beast nature....
Satan can do nothing unless God ordains it.

 

[Floatingaxe]

Lake of Fire is symbolism.
Satan is not Lucifer.
Mark of the beast is your beast nature....
Satan can do nothing unless God ordains it.

You need to prove each of those statements by Scripture.

 

[Benoni]

You need to prove each of those statements by Scripture.

Amen...

Lets start with the Book of Revelation.

There are many prophecies that have been literal; the Bible is full of them. I am speaking of the Book of Revelation; the first verse shows the foundation to the whole book; unless you can show me it is literal?

Revelations 1:1 ​

The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave unto him, to shew unto his servants things which must shortly come to pass (not 2000 years); and he sent and signified (signs and symbols) it by his angel (messenger) unto his servant John:​

John was in Spirit on the Lord’s Day; this makes the Revelation a spiritual book; not literal, not carnal, not prophetic. (Please show me in scripture if I am wrong?) Revelation or the unveiling of Jesus Christ; it is the most spiritual Book in all the Bible; and I always put Genesis in second place. It is a book full of hidden spiritual symbolisms and for those who have the spiritual eyes or ears to see or hear it.

If this awesome spiritual book is something other then I am saying; then please show me in scripture your view point. If you can’t prove it in scripture; especially after I just showed you then all you have is dogma, religion, doctrine. Should I believe you, orthodoxy, or who ever; maybe your church or denomination; or God’s Word.

Should I believe you or God’s Word? I am backing my claim by God’s Word it is symbolic; so if you say it is literal then prove it with God’s Word? Yes there are literal Churches or assemblies; but there is a deep spiritual hidden message under the surface. Look closely at that first chapter and there are all kinds of foundations that establish revelations in this context Book of Revelations is the Revelation’s of Jesus Christ with in us; not without.

This one little word is so reverent to the whole book Revelations; ‘signified” or signs and symbols. The Book Revelations can only be understood but as a very deep and awesome spiritual book by using signs and symbols that can only be found in the Bible. Where do you find these signs and symbols; all thought the Bible; written yes by the hands of deep spiritual men from many ages. But all with God’s anointing of God’s Spirit leading and guiding them; not some system of man and his religions.

 

[Floatingaxe]

We know what Revelation is. There is much literality found in it. To him who has ears, let him hear. I asked a specific question. Please, kindly be brief.

 

[Benoni]

signified”

 

[DarkCoffeeJazz]

Lake of Fire is symbolism.

Yes. It symbolizes... a place of eternal torment of fire. So it's not an actual "lake" like a big body of water. It's just a whole lot of fire.... or so.
So yes, you're right in saying it's symbolism, technically.
If that was meant to disprove something, though, you failed.... Epicly.

Satan is not Lucifer.

You have yet to prove that.

Mark of the beast is your beast nature....

Nope. You can't even say that without twisting scripture. though out of morbid curiosity, I want you to try and prove it anyway.

Satan can do nothing unless God ordains it.

That one is true. But why bother saying that when you both agree on that point? It's not a contradiction that i can see.

 

[DarkCoffeeJazz]

Amen...

Lets start with the Book of Revelation.

There are many prophecies that have been literal; the Bible is full of them. I am speaking of the Book of Revelation; the first verse shows the foundation to the whole book; unless you can show me it is literal?

Revelations 1:1
The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave unto him, to shew unto his servants things which must shortly come to pass (not 2000 years); and he sent and signified (signs and symbols) it by his angel (messenger) unto his servant John:​

John was in Spirit on the Lord’s Day; this makes the Revelation a spiritual book; not literal, not carnal, not prophetic. (Please show me in scripture if I am wrong?) Revelation or the unveiling of Jesus Christ; it is the most spiritual Book in all the Bible; and I always put Genesis in second place. It is a book full of hidden spiritual symbolisms and for those who have the spiritual eyes or ears to see or hear it.

If this awesome spiritual book is something other then I am saying; then please show me in scripture your view point. If you can’t prove it in scripture; especially after I just showed you then all you have is dogma, religion, doctrine. Should I believe you, orthodoxy, or who ever; maybe your church or denomination; or God’s Word.

Should I believe you or God’s Word? I am backing my claim by God’s Word it is symbolic; so if you say it is literal then prove it with God’s Word? Yes there are literal Churches or assemblies; but there is a deep spiritual hidden message under the surface. Look closely at that first chapter and there are all kinds of foundations that establish revelations in this context Book of Revelations is the Revelation’s of Jesus Christ with in us; not without.

This one little word is so reverent to the whole book Revelations; ‘signified” or signs and symbols. The Book Revelations can only be understood but as a very deep and awesome spiritual book by using signs and symbols that can only be found in the Bible. Where do you find these signs and symbols; all thought the Bible; written yes by the hands of deep spiritual men from many ages. But all with God’s anointing of God’s Spirit leading and guiding them; not some system of man and his religions.

So what's God mean when he says there's going to be an earthquake(s) in Revelation? Obviously, it couldn't have any LITERAL meaning...
*rolls eyes*

 

[DarkCoffeeJazz]

I find that some people don't believe, satan is angle, or the lake of fire,
or how the Lord uses satan, or is there and end of satan, the mark of the
beast. All this covers those question.

peace in jesus

Not to play Devils Advocate, but....
It doesn't mention satan being an angel at all in there.
It mentions AN angel, but that angel is not satan.

 

[Benoni]

Not to play Devils Advocate, but....
It doesn't mention satan being an angel at all in there.
It mentions AN angel, but that angel is not satan.

You just cannot get it.....
For a young person you sure our closed minded.
The word angel is not a translation from the Greek or Hebrew; the word means messenger; anyone can be a messenger.

Look it up, or that to hard for you?

 

[DarkCoffeeJazz]

You just cannot get it.....
The word angel is not a translation from the Greek or Hebrew; the word means messenger; anyone can be a messenger.

Look it up, or that to hard for you?

At least I respect my elders. Or did, at any rate.
I can't say you show me the same respect though.
I'm only 20, yet I can act more civilly than you.
Wow.
When you can prove your theory to my satisfaction, we shall see.
And I'm not catholic. I don't have the "we can become angels/angels have wings" view. I believe they ARE messengers of God. But that tehy are a separate creation from us Humans as well.
So you see.... you still have a lot of "looking up" to do yourself.
*smiles like a rockstar*
You are entitled to your opinion, but do not call me "fool" merely because you THINK something may be this way or that way.
With big claims... come big evidence!
Show me the evidence for all your claims.....
OH! And here's the kicker...
*plays air guitar, life bar flashes dangerously*
You can't post any scripture you have already posted as evidence!
Just as a guitar solo should be fresh, so must your evidence!

 

[Benoni]

Yes. It symbolizes... a place of eternal torment of fire. So it's not an actual "lake" like a big body of water. It's just a whole lot of fire.... or so.
So yes, you're right in saying it's symbolism, technically.
If that was meant to disprove something, though, you failed.... Epicly.

You have yet to prove that.

Nope. You can't even say that without twisting scripture. though out of morbid curiosity, I want you to try and prove it anyway.

That one is true. But why bother saying that when you both agree on that point? It's not a contradiction that i can see.

First of all you are dead wrong about fire, there is far more to the subject.

The word eternal is not a Greek word but from the Latin, in other words the Catholic language.

Remember I am still waiting for you to show me Revelation is literal or prophetic; seeing I gave you chapter and verse is symbolic and spiritual.

So until you give me chapter and verse all you have is an opinion.

I do not believe in the Catholic terminology of purgatory but there are some reasons for the doctrine which most Protestants have not considered. But I do believe the Bible has examples, symbolism, types and patterns that reveal spiritual principles and you should do a study on fire in scripture and see what God is saying spiritually instead of a literal fire; remember God is a spirit not a brain. There is so much more to God’s fire but here are some interesting examples.

You know Jesus God a dove when He was Baptized in the river Jordon; on the day of Pentecost believers got cloven tongues of fire. Jesus is perfect; we are not. The word fire comes from the Greek word “pur’ which we get our English word pure, purify, purge and the good old catholic purgatory.

Fire was first used with the sacrifice of Able. Our flesh must be sacrificed to be in the presence of God. The sweat of Cain was not sufficient and was not an acceptable offering unto God for sin. All flesh (self) must be burnt by the fire of God.

Don't forget Daniels friend’s thrown in the Fiery Furnace in Babylon. Only their bondages were burn. Does not Baby lon speak of the religious/political systems of man? They were in Baby lon.

Dan 3:23 And these three men, Shadrach, Meshach, and Abednego, fell down bound into the midst of the burning fiery furnace. 24Then Nebuchadnezzar the king was astonished, and rose up in haste, and spake, and said unto his counsellors, Did not we cast three men bound into the midst of the fire? They answered and said unto the king, True, O king. 25He answered and said, Lo, I see four men loose, walking in the midst of the fire, and they have no hurt; and the form of the fourth is like the Son of God.


Gehenna: Referring to the Valley of Hinnom, or Gehenna which is the city dump outside the walls of Jerusalem; a place of constant burning of refuge. Those who go to Gehenna are not sinners of the world; but are sinners of God’s people. Notice the word brother in Matthew 5: 22, nothing mention about heathen, the loss, but the word brother is used. (how precious is this a type of purification outside of God’s holy city. All things that are not of God will be purified in God’s holy judgment. The point is simple in the 12 or 13 times that the Bible is referring to the word Gehenna it is directed towards God’s people and how important is to overcome sin.

Matthew 5: 22 But I tell you that anyone who is angry with his brother will be subject to judgment. Again, anyone who says to his brother, `Rica' is answerable to the Sanhedrin. But anyone who says, `You fool!' will be in danger of the fire of hell (Ge-hen-na).

In my study of the lake that burns with fire and brimstone I was very much helped and impressed by the understanding given by Charles Pridgeon and I would like to quote from his scholarly work on the subject of BRIMSTONE. He says: "The Lake of Fire and Brimstone signifies a fire burning with brimstone; the word 'brimstone' or sulphur defines the character of the fire. The Greek word THEION translated 'brimstone' is exactly the same word THEION which means 'divine.' Sulphur was sacred to the deity among the ancient Greeks; and was used to fumigate, to purify, and to cleanse and consecrate to the deity; for this purpose they burned it in their incense. In Homer's Iliad (16:228), one is spoken of as purifying a goblet with fire and brimstone. The verb derived from THEION is THEIOO, which means to hallow, to make divine, or to dedicate to a god (See Liddell and Scott Greek-English Lexicon, 1897 Edition). To any Greek, or any trained in the Greek language, a 'lake of fire and brimstone' would mean a 'lake of divine purification.' The idea of judgment need not be excluded. Divine purification and divine consecration are the plain meaning in ancient Greek. In the ordinary explanation, this fundamental meaning of the word is entirely left out, and nothing but eternal torment is associated with it" -end quote.

 

[SoundCard]

Hebrews 1:14 NIV

14Are not all angels ministering spirits sent to serve those who will inherit salvation?

 

[Benoni]

At least I respect my elders. Or did, at any rate.
I can't say you show me the same respect though.
I'm only 20, yet I can act more civilly than you.
Wow.
When you can prove your theory to my satisfaction, we shall see.
And I'm not catholic. I don't have the "we can become angels/angels have wings" view. I believe they ARE messengers of God. But that tehy are a separate creation from us Humans as well.
So you see.... you still have a lot of "looking up" to do yourself.
*smiles like a rockstar*
You are entitled to your opinion, but do not call me "fool" merely because you THINK something may be this way or that way.
With big claims... come big evidence!
Show me the evidence for all your claims.....
OH! And here's the kicker...
*plays air guitar, life bar flashes dangerously*
You can't post any scripture you have already posted as evidence!
Just as a guitar solo should be fresh, so must your evidence!

I am not trying to insult you but look it up for yourself, stop trying so hard to be bias. There is no room in searching for God's truth with being bias. Religion is bias; being spiritual is being open.

Faith of a child

I had a JW tell me “I need the faith of a child” and I must admit this is so true; but let us examine this a little more. Adam was innocent, naïve and there is nothing more dangerous then a mind of a child. (Just let my 2 ½ year old grandson play next to the road). You see there is a difference between faith of a child; a childish faith.

Many Christian may be ninety years old and are babes when it comes to spiritual maturity. Oh they may have grown in their church and could tell you the name of every baby born, what time Sunday school begins and who is teaching what; but they will choke on anything spiritual. These brothers and sisters have not matured beyond the baby stage of spiritual development and maturity. All they can handle is the milk of the Word which is awesome food for babies; but gives them a great big fat juicy spiritual steak and they would choke; they have not grown spiritual teeth. The deep things of God are hidden from the carnal/ intellectual and you are right you need “the faith of a child”. Most place their faith in all the intellectuals; the people they look up to in their church; God is a spirit not a carnal human brain; His Word is spirit and it is truth

A child like faith has nothing to do with having faith in your religion and has everything to have faith in what God is saying to your spirit; sometimes we need to let go of the ols wine skins; for it cannot handle the new wine of revelation.

Matt 11:25 (NIV) At that time Jesus said, "I praise you, Father, Lord of heaven and earth, because you have hidden these things from the wise and learned, and revealed them to little children

Matt 11:25 (NLT) 25 At that time Jesus prayed this prayer: “O Father, Lord of heaven and earth, thank you for hiding these things from those who think themselves wise and clever, and for revealing them to the childlike.

Matt 11:25 (WE) 25Then Jesus said, `Father, you are Lord of heaven and earth. I thank you because you have hidden these things from people who are wise and know many things. But you have shown them to people who are like children.

Matt 11:25 (TNIV) 25 At that time Jesus said, "I praise you, Father, Lord of heaven and earth, because you have hidden these things from the wise and learned, and revealed them to little children.

 

[Benoni]

Hebrews 1:14 NIV

14Are not all angels ministering spirits sent to serve those who will inherit salvation?

True, angels or messenger are many things; but Satan was never and archangel.

 

[Floatingaxe]

True, angels or messenger are many things; but Satan was never and archangel.

Sure he IS. He has command over millions of demon spirits who were once angels in heaven. He is now thrown down and stripped of his status, but he is still an angel with only limited angelic power.

When Paul was afflicted with that 'thorn in the flesh" that was what? ---an agent, or messenger (ANGEL) of Satan to cause Him trouble wherever he went.

Satan is an archangel who is leader over angels--or he couldn't lead and send angels of darkness to buffet Paul, could he? One who commands angels is called what? An archangel.

We must be sensible about this stuff.

 

[Bro.T]

Not to play Devils Advocate, but....
It doesn't mention satan being an angel at all in there.
It mentions AN angel, but that angel is not satan.

And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels, 12:8 And prevailed not; neither was their place found any more in heaven. 12:9 And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him. (Revelation 12:7-9)

Lets take another look at the Lake of fire....
For as the new heavens and the new earth, which I will make, shall remain before me, saith the LORD, so shall your seed and your name remain. 66:23 And it shall come to pass, that from one new moon to another, and from one sabbath to another, shall all flesh come to worship before me, saith the LORD. 66:24 And they shall go forth, and look upon the carcases of the men that have transgressed against me: for their worm shall not die, neither shall their fire be quenched; and they shall be an abhorring unto all flesh. (Isaiah 66:22-24)

Isaiah 33:14 The sinners in Zion are afraid; fearfulness hath surprised the hypocrites. Who among us shall dwell with the devouring fire? who among us shall dwell with everlasting burnings?

What does everlasting mean? Read the whole chapter in Isaiah 33 and it will date this everlasting burning. In Mark, here is a unclean spirit (evil angel) asking Jesus not to torment him. Remember angels are spirits and can be also tormented.​

Mark 5:7 And cried with a loud voice, and said, What have I to do with thee, Jesus, thou Son of the most high God? I adjure thee by God, that thou torment me not.

This is future in Luke. Why? We have not had the first resurrection yet and Abraham is still in the grave.​

Luke 16:23 And in hell he lift up his eyes, being in torments, and seeth Abraham afar off, and Lazarus in his bosom.
24 And he cried and said, Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus that he may dip the tip of his finger in water, and cool my tongue; for I am tormented in this flame.
25 But Abraham said, Son, remember that thou in thy lifetime receivedst thy good things, and likewise Lazarus evil things: but now he is comforted, and thou art tormented.
26 And beside all this, between us and you there is a great gulf fixed: so that they which would pass from hence to you cannot; neither can they pass to us, that would come from thence.
27 Then he said, I pray thee therefore, father, that thou wouldest send him to my father's house:
28 For I have five brethren; that he may testify unto them, lest they also come into this place of torment.
29 Abraham saith unto him, They have Moses and the prophets; let them hear them.
30 And he said, Nay, father Abraham: but if one went unto them from the dead, they will repent.
31 And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead.

I hope I share some light on the conversation, about satan
being angle, and the lake of fire.

peace in jesus name

 

[Caitlin.ann]

Lulu is my best friend ever.

 

[Benoni]

And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels, 12:8 And prevailed not; neither was their place found any more in heaven. 12:9 And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him. (Revelation 12:7-9)

Lets take another look at the Lake of fire....
For as the new heavens and the new earth, which I will make, shall remain before me, saith the LORD, so shall your seed and your name remain. 66:23 And it shall come to pass, that from one new moon to another, and from one sabbath to another, shall all flesh come to worship before me, saith the LORD. 66:24 And they shall go forth, and look upon the carcases of the men that have transgressed against me: for their worm shall not die, neither shall their fire be quenched; and they shall be an abhorring unto all flesh. (Isaiah 66:22-24)

Isaiah 33:14 The sinners in Zion are afraid; fearfulness hath surprised the hypocrites. Who among us shall dwell with the devouring fire? who among us shall dwell with everlasting burnings? ​

What does everlasting mean? Read the whole chapter in Isaiah 33 and it will date this everlasting burning. In Mark, here is a unclean spirit (evil angel) asking Jesus not to torment him. Remember angels are spirits and can be also tormented. ​

Mark 5:7 And cried with a loud voice, and said, What have I to do with thee, Jesus, thou Son of the most high God? I adjure thee by God, that thou torment me not.

This is future in Luke. Why? We have not had the first resurrection yet and Abraham is still in the grave. ​

Luke 16:23 And in hell he lift up his eyes, being in torments, and seeth Abraham afar off, and Lazarus in his bosom.
24 And he cried and said, Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus that he may dip the tip of his finger in water, and cool my tongue; for I am tormented in this flame.
25 But Abraham said, Son, remember that thou in thy lifetime receivedst thy good things, and likewise Lazarus evil things: but now he is comforted, and thou art tormented.
26 And beside all this, between us and you there is a great gulf fixed: so that they which would pass from hence to you cannot; neither can they pass to us, that would come from thence.
27 Then he said, I pray thee therefore, father, that thou wouldest send him to my father's house:
28 For I have five brethren; that he may testify unto them, lest they also come into this place of torment.
29 Abraham saith unto him, They have Moses and the prophets; let them hear them.
30 And he said, Nay, father Abraham: but if one went unto them from the dead, they will repent.
31 And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead.

I hope I share some light on the conversation, about satan
being angle, and the lake of fire.

peace in jesus name

Agely

A careful study of the Greek word “aionios” (translated as “eternal,” “everlasting,” and “forever and ever” in our English translations) shows that it comes from the Greek noun “aion” which always means “an indeterminate period of time.” It is a most unfortunate thing that the translators of old chose to translate “aionios” from the Latin language rather than the Greek from which the word is derived. God’s punishment will not last forever as is commonly taught, but will only last for the ages and only UNTIL God’s purpose for it is complete.


The word punish means to prune.


The parable of Lazarus is a parable and is not literal.

 

[Bro.T]

Agely

A careful study of the Greek word “aionios” (translated as “eternal,” “everlasting,” and “forever and ever” in our English translations) shows that it comes from the Greek noun “aion” which always means “an indeterminate period of time.” It is a most unfortunate thing that the translators of old chose to translate “aionios” from the Latin language rather than the Greek from which the word is derived. God’s punishment will not last forever as is commonly taught, but will only last for the ages and only UNTIL God’s purpose for it is complete.


The word punish means to prune.


The parable of Lazarus is a parable and is not literal.

You are going to have a hard time with people, I'm not going there
with you, believe what you want.

peace in jesus name