What or Who Is Satan?

[Bro.T]

WHO IS SATAN?

he was not an actual serpent, he is a fallen angel, and his character is like a snake.

BIBLICAL NAMES
Abaddon
Accuser
Adversary
Anointed Cherub That Covereth
Apollyon
Beelzubub
Destroyer
Devil, The
Dragon, The Great Red
Enemy, The
Father of Lies
Lucifer
Murderer
Satan
Serpent, The
Tyrus
Wicked One, The

OTHER NAMES
Diabolus (the Devil)
Dog Star (The star Sirius)
Lucas
Luces
Lucius
Lumen (full of light)
Lux (Luc, Luk, Lucky)
Osiris (fertility god)
Santa Claus
(Satan) (Lucas)
St. Nicholas
St. Nick

 

[Bro.T]

Revelation 12

1. And there appeared a great wonder in heaven; a woman clothed with the sun, and the moon under her feet, and upon her head a crown of twelve stars:
2. And she being with child cried, travailing in birth, and pained to be delivered.
3. And there appeared another wonder in heaven; and behold a great red dragon, having seven heads and ten horns, and seven crowns upon his heads.
4. And his tail drew the third part of the stars of heaven, and did cast them to the earth: and the dragon stood before the woman which was ready to be delivered, for to devour her child as soon as it was born.
5. And she brought forth a man child, who was to rule all nations with a rod of iron: and her child was caught up unto God, and to his throne.
6. And the woman fled into the wilderness, where she hath a place prepared of God, that they should feed her there a thousand two hundred and threescore days
7. And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels,
8. And prevailed not; neither was their place found any more in heaven.
9. And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.
10. And I heard a loud voice saying in heaven, Now is come salvation, and strength, and the kingdom of our God, and the power of his Christ: for the accuser of our brethren is cast down, which accused them before our God day and night.
11. And they overcame him by the blood of the Lamb, and by the word of their testimony; and they loved not their lives unto the death.
12. Therefore rejoice, ye heavens, and ye that dwell in them. Woe to the inhabiters of the earth and of the sea! for the devil is come down unto you, having great wrath, because he knoweth that he hath but a short time.
13. And when the dragon saw that he was cast unto the earth, he persecuted the woman which brought forth the man child.

 

[DarkCoffeeJazz]

Simple religous truth based on Rome not the Bible....

"When tyrants rise, don't close your eyes,
Keep in the truth, shut out their lies.
Whilst freedom rings, my heart it sings
Of better days, of better things."
~Alex Buzzard, excerpt from "War of Reason"

I find it funny how you still called it "truth".

 

[Floatingaxe]

Simple religous truth based on Rome not the Bible....

There you go again ignore God’s Word, Satan had a beginning. There may be no beginning in the realm of heaven but Satan had a beginning; it was a liar, a murderer according to God’s Word, not an angel. Not good enough for you though; your creeds dictate your belief system.

Isaiah 54:16 Behold, I have created the smith that bloweth the coals in the fire, and that bringeth forth an instrument for his works; and I have created the waster to destroy.

How clear can you get I guess your old worn out wine skin cannot receive anything new.

Jn 8:44 Said Ye are of your father, the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the BEGINNINGand abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar and the father of it.

1Jn 3:8 He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the BEGINNING.For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil..


The word beginning in the Greek means beginning. Not first he was an angel, second he was a murder and liar. Which one was he?

KJ Bible is the only version that uses the word Lucifer. It is not even a Hebrew word. Moffat translation says "What a fall from heaven O Shining star of the dawns" Rotherham"How hast thou fallen from heaven, O shining One, son of the dawn!"Amplified "how are you fallen from heaven O light-bearer and day star, son of the morning!"

Lucifer is not Satan; you cannot have two beginning; Satan was a liar, murderer from the beginning; some how you are trying to squeeze Lucifer beginning before Satan’s beginning; this is getting weird.

2 Pet 1:19 We have also a more sure word of prophecy; whereunto ye do well that ye take heed, as unto a light that shineth in a dark place, until the day dawn, and the day star arise in your hearts.


Rev 22:16 I JESUS have sent mine angel to testify unto you these thing sin the churches. I am the root and the offspring of David, and the bright and morning star.

Satan's beginning was with pride and his rebellion. Yes, he was a beautiful angel--the most beautiful, perhaps. but he fell and became the liar he is.

The beginning refers to his beginning in Creation. Personal spin gets you nowhere.

 

[Benoni]

Satan's beginning was with pride and his rebellion. Yes, he was a beautiful angel--the most beautiful, perhaps. but he fell and became the liar he is.

The beginning refers to his beginning in Creation. Personal spin gets you nowhere.

prove it..

Chapter and verse please.

He was a liar and a murderer from His beginning, I did give chapter and verse. Your turn.

 

[SoundCard]

prove it..

Chapter and verse please.

He was a liar and a murderer from His beginning, I did give chapter and verse. Your turn.

Luke 10:18 NIV

18He replied, "I saw Satan fall like lightning from heaven.

Use some logic here man. Christ saw the devil fall from heaven. What was he doing there to begin with? It means at some point there was something the devil was doing that wasn't making things difficult for the rest of us. There was war in heaven, the devil was cast down, then what happened?

Genesis 3:1 NIV

1 Now the serpent was more crafty than any of the wild animals the LORD God had made. He said to the woman, "Did God really say, 'You must not eat from any tree in the garden'?"

So, the devil falls from the heaven, then winds up in the garden to tempt Eve. So sometime prior to the fall of man, the devil fell, from a post that was sometime before that.

Isaiah 14:12-14 NIV

12 How you have fallen from heaven,
O morning star, son of the dawn!
You have been cast down to the earth,
you who once laid low the nations!
13 You said in your heart,
"I will ascend to heaven;
I will raise my throne
above the stars of God;
I will sit enthroned on the mount of assembly,
on the utmost heights of the sacred mountain. [c]
14 I will ascend above the tops of the clouds;
I will make myself like the Most High."



Again, this takes some thought with scripture in mind. There HAD to be a point in time prior to that moment in the garden, where the devil said he would overthrow God. So we see three things here: 1. The devil fell from heaven, indicating he had a post in it at some point in time. 2. He was in the garden tempting Eve, so early on in creation of things this had happened. 3. We have an account of the devil saying to himself the things that would have him tossed out of heaven for. So he started out as something else, but became the enemy of God and all mankind because of his pride.

 

[Floatingaxe]

prove it..

Chapter and verse please.

He was a liar and a murderer from His beginning, I did give chapter and verse. Your turn.

Yes, the exact same scripture you use and twist, tells me the opposite, which is the most accurate...that Satan and Lucifer are the same being. One was the Lightbearer in heaven in ages past, before Creation, and the other is Satan, whom Lucifer became when he succumbed to pride and rebellion, and is easily trounced and thrown to the earth, awaiting Creation.

It doesn't take a genius to figure it out.

The beginning, as I said at least twice before, is the beginning of mankind. That is the only beginning we know. It is the beginning of Satan's intrusion into the destiny of mankind.

 

[Benoni]

Yes, the exact same scripture you use and twist, tells me the opposite, which is the most accurate...that Satan and Lucifer are the same being. One was the Lightbearer in heaven in ages past, before Creation, and the other is Satan, whom Lucifer became when he succumbed to pride and rebellion, and is easily trounced and thrown to the earth, awaiting Creation.

It doesn't take a genius to figure it out.

The beginning, as I said at least twice before, is the beginning of mankind. That is the only beginning we know. It is the beginning of Satan's intrusion into the destiny of mankind.

It may be the only beginning you know of; but I use scripture not my opinion to back my claim; it is like you are totally ignoring God’s Word because you have this deep bias you cannot get past. Satan has no power to intrude on the destiny of man kind unless God ordains it.

SATAN'S ORIGIN and character of DARKNESS was spoken of by Jesus not my opinion as all you seem to depend on, this should be enough to settle the querying minds of all, that he was never a shining angel of light. He made it clear that he was a murderer from THE BEGINNING and concluded His statement by saying, "...And in the truth HE HAS NOT STOOD." (Jn. 8:44;

Diaglott, Westcott & Hort, and Marshall's Interlinear Grk/Eng N.T.). If he has NEVER STOOD IN THE LIGHT OF THE TRUTH, so if he has never stood fo the light of the truth how can Satan be a light bearer??????

Also, if he "...HAS BEEN SINNING FROM THE BEGINNING," as John recorded (I Jn. 3:8, Diaglott), there is no honest way we can say Satan was ever a glorious, shining, angel of light with the name of Lucifer. If this be true, how then, can Isa. 14:12 be speaking of Satan? It is not.

I am not looking for a genius, or a bias opinion; I am sure the Pope is a genius. What I am looking for is Chapter and verse. I did not twist scripture I quoted scripture; if Satan is anything but a liar and a murderer from his beginning, chapter and verse please. Stop playing word games and use God’s Word instead of your bias. If you cannot prove it by any means but your bias opinion; that just proves you are twisting scripture. Beginning means beginning of source, not the beginning of creation. I ask where you got this reference and all I get is your bias opinion which hold no water in a debate

I posted the following in post 114, here it is again. Notice I am using scripture to point out you are being unscriptural. .

When God speaks of "the beginning" He is speaking of the ORIGINATING POINT of the subject in question. It is written of Jesus when He had turned water into wine, "THIS BEGINNING of miracles did Jesus in Cana of Galilee, and manifested forth His glory; and His disciples believed on Him" (Jn. 2:11). This means, simply, that the miraculous aspect of the ministry of Jesus Christ had as its originating point this miracle of the water turned into wine. He had performed no miracles before this time, but from this day forth many more were to follow. This, so far as His miracles were concerned, was "the beginning." Thus we may clearly see that if something is manifested in a certain form "from the beginning" that means that from the time it was first formed, established, and came into being it has been in that condition.

 

[DarkCoffeeJazz]

prove it..

Chapter and verse please.

He was a liar and a murderer from His beginning, I did give chapter and verse. Your turn.

*plays air guitar solo*
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i7KmKgh2WFM&feature=related
*smiles like a rock star as he points his finger with arm outstretched*
ACHTUNG BABY! TODAY WE PLAY IT MY WAY!
You have just presented the evidence yourself!
Think about it....
"He was a liar and a murderer from His beginning"............
......
..........
I will rephrase that so you understand what it is you just said.
"He had the potential from the very beginning to be a liar and a murderer, and it was certain he would".
Call it a spin if you want, but it's no more dizzying than your own spins.

 

[kellyc]

so here is my question:
if we all agree that both lucifer and satan are bad (even though we don't all agree apparently that they are one and the same), then... what?

 

[Benoni]

*plays air guitar solo*
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i7KmKgh2WFM&feature=related
*smiles like a rock star as he points his finger with arm outstretched*
ACHTUNG BABY! TODAY WE PLAY IT MY WAY!
You have just presented the evidence yourself!
Think about it....
"He was a liar and a murderer from His beginning"............
......
..........
I will rephrase that so you understand what it is you just said.
"He had the potential from the very beginning to be a liar and a murderer, and it was certain he would".
Call it a spin if you want, but it's no more dizzying than your own spins.

potential: talk about spin…..



If I did spin, point out where the spin was instead of accuse with no foundations or substance. You act like I am pulling this out of a hat; everything I have addressed was scriptural; your god is your doctrine and you are the one who cannot receive something new, everything must fit in your old dead wine skin or your going to burst.

Potential: I did not see the word potential anywhere in these verses.

Potential: Yes it does say “He was a murderer from the BEGINNING. but nothing about potential?

Yes it does say “and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him”. but nothing about potential?

Potential: You not adding to God’s Word to spin your bias; well it does not spin.


Isaiah 54:16 Behold, I have created the smith that bloweth the coals in the fire, and that bringeth forth an instrument for his works; and I have created the waster to destroy.

.
Jn 8:44 Said Ye are of your father, the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the BEGINNING and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar and the father of it.

1Jn 3:8 He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the BEGINNING.For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil..

 

[kellyc]

i always thought of it as God knew satan from the very beginning, and what he would be/is.

 

[DarkCoffeeJazz]

i always thought of it as God knew satan from the very beginning, and what he would be/is.

AH! There we go.
That's what I was trying to say.
It seems I stumbled over my own trying to find the right words.
Thanks much.

 

[kellyc]

i understood you completely. God has a different perspective than we do, he doesn't have to wait til we do something to reveal our character, he already knows we are going to do it because he can see the end and the beginning at the same time.

 

[kellyc]

nice air guitar!

 

[DarkCoffeeJazz]

nice air guitar!

Aha, you make me blush, Frauelin...
(it's from a video game, Apollo Justice: Ace Attorney, or as I like to call it, Phoenix Wright 4. In case you haven't noticed, I've been acting like the prosecutor who plays the "nice air guitar". He's a rock star on the side, as well as being a prosecutor, haha.)

I always find that you have to get on up with fun and music, before you get on down... to debate!
Wouldn't you agree, Frauelin?

 

[kellyc]

i agree herr coffee! debate here should be fun also, but sometimes it gets pretty dark.

 

[DarkCoffeeJazz]

i agree herr coffee! debate here should be fun also, but sometimes it gets pretty dark.

AHA! I wasn't expecting you to say "Herr" Coffee!
Klavier calls Apollo Justice, "Herr" Forehead, lol.
He DOES have a big forehead, lol.

(AND NOTE: We're just killing time until the other side of this debate can respond. Please don't view it as deliberately being off-topic)
Though just in case we should probably stop now.
BUT FIRST!
One of my favorite songs!
"The Guitar's Serenade!"
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bq8A1P0hjk0&feature=related

Also, about how it can get pretty dark... I know.
I get that way sometimes too.
Hence my username...

 

[Bro.T]

And I saw an angel come down from heaven, having the key of the bottomless pit and a great chain in his hand. 20:2 And he laid hold on the dragon, that old serpent, which is the Devil, and Satan, and bound him a thousand years, 20:3 And cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal upon him, that he should deceive the nations no more, till the thousand years should be fulfilled: and after that he must be loosed a little season. 20:4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years. (Rev.20:1-4)

And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison, 20:8 And shall go out to deceive the nations which are in the four quarters of the earth, Gog and Magog, to gather them together to battle: the number of whom is as the sand of the sea. 20:9 And they went up on the breadth of the earth, and compassed the camp of the saints about, and the beloved city: and fire came down from God out of heaven, and devoured them. 20:10 And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever. (Revelation 20:7-10)

 

[DarkCoffeeJazz]

So what is the point of the scripture and the bolded words tanzel? What are you trying to say.