What New Aspect Of The Sabbath Is Contained In "proclaiming The Sabbath More Fully"??

[Cribstyl]

Crib, I never said shadows were copies of the real. Rather, shadows, in scripture, point us toward something. And either way, the text doesn't say a thing about not doing those things.

The text say plainly dont judge people who eat drink or keep certain days. That implies that one size dont fit all Stryder. Freedom from the law is implied, not slavery to the law.

Well we're going to see this differently obviously. I was just giving you my input on what the text means, and why I'm wary of modern translations.

And I've never subscribed to the idea that we won't tell time in heaven. Scripture doesn't teach that. It's simply an assumption made by man in his attempt to understand what eternity will be like. And the meek will inherit the earth Crib, so the 24/7 period will continue.

#1.Are you saying the meek cannot inherit the earth in their lifetime?


#2. Explain your concept of how you'll have 24/7 with no sun or moon Stryder.

Rev 21:22¶And I saw no temple therein: for the Lord God Almighty and the Lamb are the temple of it.
Rev 21:23 And the city had no need of the sun, neither of the moon, to shine in it: for the glory of God did lighten it, and the Lamb [is] the light thereof.
Rev 21:24 And the nations of them which are saved shall walk in the light of it: and the kings of the earth do bring their glory and honour into it.

 

[Stryder06]

The text say plainly dont judge people who eat drink or keep certain days. That implies that one size dont fit all Stryder. Freedom from the law is implied, not slavery to the law.

You see freedom from the law implied there. I don't.

#1.Are you saying the meek cannot inherit the earth in their lifetime?

No, they can't. This world isn't our home. We look for a new heaven and a new earth.

#2. Explain your concept of how you'll have 24/7 with no sun or moon Stryder.

Rev 21:22¶And I saw no temple therein: for the Lord God Almighty and the Lamb are the temple of it.
Rev 21:23 And the city had no need of the sun, neither of the moon, to shine in it: for the glory of God did lighten it, and the Lamb [is] the light thereof.
Rev 21:24 And the nations of them which are saved shall walk in the light of it: and the kings of the earth do bring their glory and honour into it.

Text doesn't say the sun and moon won't exist. It said that we won't need them for light because the Lamb will be our light.

 

[Cribstyl]

You see freedom from the law implied there. I don't.

Well I dont expect you to contradic your doctrines, but the context is clearly talking about the law......Col 2:14Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross;

It's saying you wont be judge because of what you eat or drink or your holidays or worship days.
The handwriting of ordinances are commandments of the law that were fulfilled on the cross.

Col 2:16 Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath [days]:
These clear facts are reenforced to churches at Rome saying... Rom 14:5One man esteemeth one day above another: another esteemeth every day [alike]. Let every man be fully persuaded in his own mind.
Rom 14:17For the kingdom of God is not meat and drink; but righteousness, and peace, and joy in the Holy Ghost.
These clear facts are reenforced to churches at Corinth saying...
NIV - 1Cr 8:8 -But food does not bring us near to God; we are no worse if we do not eat, and no better if we do.
NIV - 1Cr 8:9 -Be careful, however, that the exercise of your freedom does not become a stumbling block to the weak.

No, they can't. This world isn't our home. We look for a new heaven and a new earth.

If the events of the seven days of creation are true, the sun and the moon was set in place to rules the day and the night giving earth 24hrs days. How can you say with surity that the new heavens and the new earth will be 24hrs if there is no sun, no moon and no night?

Text doesn't say the sun and moon won't exist. It said that we won't need them for light because the Lamb will be our light.

Rev 22:5And there shall be no night there; and they need no candle, neither light of the sun; for the Lord God giveth them light: and they shall reign for ever and ever.




Isa 60:19The sun shall be no more thy light by day; neither for brightness shall the moon give light unto thee: but the LORD shall be unto thee an everlasting light, and thy God thy glory.
Isa 60:20Thy sun shall no more go down; neither shall thy moon withdraw itself: for the LORD shall be thine everlasting light, and the days of thy mourning shall be ended.


The contrast with Genesis 1 about how time is measure on earth implies that you need to explain how time will be measured. I dont think you can.

The facts to consider Stryder is that we will change into spirit creatures that cant change. We will serve God forever. Immortallity implies cannot die or grow old.

 

[EastCoastRemnant]

Well I dont expect you to contradic your doctrines, but the context is clearly talking about the law......Col 2:14Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross;

It's saying you wont be judge because of what you eat or drink or your holidays or worship days.
The handwriting of ordinances are commandments of the law that were fulfilled on the cross.

This is the crux of the disagreement between us... you read that the ordinances here spoken of includes the decalogue as well as the rest of the rules laid down by Moses. We only understand it to mean the Mosaic law and not the ten Commandments.

Jesus spoke of the decalogue but not of the ordinances...

As is always the case Crib, we will have to agree to disagree. We each know where the other stands. We are Adventists by faith and are not going to be swayed from that. God bless you in your journey of understanding...

 

[Cribstyl]

This is the crux of the disagreement between us... you read that the ordinances here spoken of includes the decalogue as well as the rest of the rules laid down by Moses. We only understand it to mean the Mosaic law and not the ten Commandments.

If we keep focus on our discussion and the scriptures posted, You'd see that we were specifically talking about is about "being commanded what to eat, drink and days to worship.

Jesus spoke of the decalogue but not of the ordinances...

Where are we talking about what Jesus said? Our discussion is related to what Paul taught and meant specifically from Col 2.

As is always the case Crib, we will have to agree to disagree. We each know where the other stands. We are Adventists by faith and are not going to be swayed from that. God bless you in your journey of understanding...

I've only presented scriptures but you're putting commentary on the table. As always ECR, you jump into a discussion and cant present a reasonable explanation of the scriptures in question.
The scriptures in context is telling the Colossian Christian that they were dead in their sins and God have forgiven their trespasses by blotting out what the law claimed was their trespasses and sins. What you
re presenting is what's foriegn to scriptures. Col 2:13And you, being dead in your sins and the uncircumcision of your flesh, hath he quickened together with him, having forgiven you all trespasses;
Col 2:14 Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross;


You're implying that the Law of Moses is what was against us and nailed to the cross, These texts says no such thing ECR.

God's people wont hold on to a false teachings forever.

 

[Cribstyl]

Funny how Stryder and ECR dont see the that the law is the subject in those scriptures. When you isolate text from it's context you can add commentary to make up your own doctrine.

 

[EastCoastRemnant]

Funny how Stryder and ECR dont see the that the law is the subject in those scriptures. When you isolate text from it's context you can add commentary to make up your own doctrine.

It's because myself and Stryder and Adventists Crib and read these passages differently than you... what do you expect in an SDA room?

 

[Stryder06]

It's because myself and Stryder and Adventists Crib and read these passages differently than you... what do you expect in an SDA room?

My sentiments exactly. Funny thing is that it's not commentary to imply that Paul was telling them to not keep the sabbath, but it is commentary to imply that he was telling them to keep strong in what they were already doing.

 

[Stryder06]

Well I dont expect you to contradic your doctrines, but the context is clearly talking about the law......Col 2:14Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross;

It's saying you wont be judge because of what you eat or drink or your holidays or worship days.
The handwriting of ordinances are commandments of the law that were fulfilled on the cross.

Crib, it's not about contradicting my doctrines. The fact is that you're implying that he's talking about not keeping the sabbath or dietary laws. I dont see it like that. I read the text and hear Paul saying Don't let others judge you in regards XYZ. If you're not doing it, why worry about what others are saying?

Col 2:16 Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath [days]:
These clear facts are reenforced to churches at Rome saying... Rom 14:5One man esteemeth one day above another: another esteemeth every day [alike]. Let every man be fully persuaded in his own mind.
Rom 14:17For the kingdom of God is not meat and drink; but righteousness, and peace, and joy in the Holy Ghost.
These clear facts are reenforced to churches at Corinth saying...
NIV - 1Cr 8:8 -But food does not bring us near to God; we are no worse if we do not eat, and no better if we do.
NIV - 1Cr 8:9 -Be careful, however, that the exercise of your freedom does not become a stumbling block to the weak.
[/quote]

Again, I have a different understaning than you do...but we've been over that before. And I don't see you seeing me as actually understanding scripture on the strength of scripture. You'll continue to see my understanding as being clouded by the evil commentary of Sr White.

If the events of the seven days of creation are true, the sun and the moon was set in place to rules the day and the night giving earth 24hrs days. How can you say with surity that the new heavens and the new earth will be 24hrs if there is no sun, no moon and no night?

First, what do you mean by "if"? Second, I already stated that the text doesn't say the sun and moon will cease to exist. It says we won't need them for light.

Rev 22:5And there shall be no night there; and they need no candle, neither light of the sun; for the Lord God giveth them light: and they shall reign for ever and ever.

Isa 60:19The sun shall be no more thy light by day; neither for brightness shall the moon give light unto thee: but the LORD shall be unto thee an everlasting light, and thy God thy glory.
Isa 60:20Thy sun shall no more go down; neither shall thy moon withdraw itself: for the LORD shall be thine everlasting light, and the days of thy mourning shall be ended.

Beatiful scriptures. Again, they say nothing about God destroying the work of His hands. It simply says that He will be the source of light.

The contrast with Genesis 1 about how time is measure on earth implies that you need to explain how time will be measured. I dont think you can.

The facts to consider Stryder is that we will change into spirit creatures that cant change. We will serve God forever. Immortallity implies cannot die or grow old.

Time will be what it is. From one new moon to the next and one sabbath to the next Crib. That implies time keeping, notwithstanding whether you want to accept the existence of the sabbath post sin, or not. And yes immortality does imply that you won't grow old or die. That doesn't mean that time will cease to exist. And what do you mean by "spirit creatures"?

 

[Cribstyl]

It's because myself and Stryder and Adventists Crib and read these passages differently than you... what do you expect in an SDA room?

Like it or not
I'm here to learn and question about how some doctrines are formed. I find it shameless that you can ignor the context of 1 verse and say so much that you have to attack me rather explain what the scriptures are saying.

You cannot say I'm attacking your doctrines when we're trying to explain to each other what the bible is teaching.

Claiming that Paul is teaching about the law of Moses is nailed to the cross seems foriegn from the context.


I understand that you place your trust in the pioneers and the writings of EGW, but please dont isolate one text and tell us that it's talking about the law of Moses and not in the book of law that God gave Moses.
We can prove that God gave those commandments not Moses.

Getting upset because you cannot prove what you have adopted as doctrine seems to be the problem.

My 5 and 7yr old are accepting your doctrines because they trust their mother and teachers like you. My job is to teach them to read. God will tell them what to believe when they are ready. They dont understand what they have to repeat over and over and over and over.


The way some Sabbath School classes are led, I hear countless differences of opinion about many issues that disect isolated text to mean whatever supports the doctrines. When the context get included we see a bigger picture than trying to force people to agree with commentary.

People should be determined to find answers from God's word.

 

[EastCoastRemnant]

I will continue to pray for you and your family Crib for a house divided against itself cannot stand.

 

[Cribstyl]

My sentiments exactly. Funny thing is that it's not commentary to imply that Paul was telling them to not keep the sabbath, but it is commentary to imply that he was telling them to keep strong in what they were already doing.

Read it and believe if it's God's word. It's not that complicated.. It's not funny either.
These text are in form of a letter. It's says...dont let anyone judge you on meats, drink, holy days or sabbath days. Your commentary is what is introducing the law of Moses is implied. Your commentary implies that the law of Moses is seperate from the Law of God.

When we stay with the context we dont find Paul talking about only ceromonially laws or whatever you want to imply as the law of Moses. We find him talking about transgressions that lead to death that was against us. Hello???

What you should do is show us why you think that Paul is talking about the law of Moses. Where in the scriptures did Moses come up with a law about, what to eat, drink, Holy days and sabbaths to keep apart from what's in God's law.

 

[OntheDL]

If we keep focus on our discussion and the scriptures posted, You'd see that we were specifically talking about is about "being commanded what to eat, drink and days to worship.

Where are we talking about what Jesus said? Our discussion is related to what Paul taught and meant specifically from Col 2.
I've only presented scriptures but you're putting commentary on the table. As always ECR, you jump into a discussion and cant present a reasonable explanation of the scriptures in question.
The scriptures in context is telling the Colossian Christian that they were dead in their sins and God have forgiven their trespasses by blotting out what the law claimed was their trespasses and sins. What you
re presenting is what's foriegn to scriptures. Col 2:13And you, being dead in your sins and the uncircumcision of your flesh, hath he quickened together with him, having forgiven you all trespasses;
Col 2:14 Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross;


You're implying that the Law of Moses is what was against us and nailed to the cross, These texts says no such thing ECR.

God's people wont hold on to a false teachings forever.

Col 2:16 says nothing about the sabbath day itself. Paul being that he was a observing Jew would never advocate for others to act differently.

The key phrase in this verse is 'in respect of'. That means things connected to, associated to. Paul was actually saying let no man judge in food and drink and things associated to the holy days, sabbath and the new moon. The Jews made a thousand regulations regarding the sabbath. Paul was liberating the new gentile Christians from burden of the man-made Rabbinical laws, not from the delight of the sabbath of the 10 commandments of God.

 

[Cribstyl]

I will continue to pray for you and your family Crib for a house divided against itself cannot stand.

God is in control of my family, so please keep your prayers on your own family.
I know for sure that some Adventists allow the word of God to be their doctrines. So I'm not an enemy of God's people.

 

[EastCoastRemnant]

God is in control of my family, so please keep your prayers on your own family.
I know for sure that some Adventists allow the word of God to be their doctrines. So I'm not an enemy of God's people.

I have the capacity of praying for more than just my family but thanx for the concern for me and mine...

I'm not sure where you get the dramatic terminology 'enemy of God's people' from... a blinded, stubborn brother, yes, but not an enemy.

 

[Cribstyl]

Col 2:16 says nothing about the sabbath day itself. Paul being that he was a observing Jew would never advocate for others to act differently.

The key phrase in this verse is 'in respect of'. That means things connected to, associated to. Paul was actually saying let no man judge in food and drink and things associated to the holy days, sabbath and the new moon. The Jews made a thousand regulations regarding the sabbath. Paul was liberating the new gentile Christians from burden of the man-made Rabbinical laws, not from the delight of the sabbath of the 10 commandments of God.

Thanks for chiming in.

Col 2:16 Let no man therefore judge you

in meat,
--------

or in drink,
----------

or in respect of an holyday,
----------------------------

or of the new moon,
--------------------
or
of the sabbath [days]:
---------------------
"Let no man judge you" appears to be the key phrase.

Respecting of a holy day was not even addressing the sabbath. It designated any day you respect as a sacred time. Sabbath was a seperate issue.

What you added in pink above help SDA to have a different interpretation and insight from what seems like clear teaching.

We dont read anywhere in the bible where Moses gave them meat, drink, holy day and sabbath law different from what God commanded.

Thanks for being gracious.

 

[Cribstyl]

I have the capacity of praying for more than just my family but thanx for the concern for me and mine...

I'm not sure where you get the dramatic terminology 'enemy of God's people' from... a blinded, stubborn brother, yes, but not an enemy.

Some people are sheep, they follow whom they trust. Loyalty appears to give them pride to fight, even when they cant show or explain what they claim to believe. That's you..... You have no answers but you're loyal to the cause.

You and I become enemies when you call me "blinded" and "stubborn" because I wont accept commentary that surely contradicts God's word.

Let God's word be the truth you believe, dont add to it and dont take away from it. EXPLAIN IT or asked somebody who knows.

 

[OntheDL]

Thanks for chiming in.

Col 2:16 Let no man therefore judge you

in meat,
--------

or in drink,
----------

or in respect of an holyday,
----------------------------

or of the new moon,
--------------------
or
of the sabbath [days]:
---------------------
"Let no man judge you" appears to be the key phrase.

Respecting of a holy day was not even addressing the sabbath. It designated any day you respect as a sacred time. Sabbath was a seperate issue.

What you added in pink above help SDA to have a different interpretation and insight from what seems like clear teaching.

We dont read anywhere in the bible where Moses gave them meat, drink, holy day and sabbath law different from what God commanded.

Thanks for being gracious.

Well, Moses didn't give any additional rules apart from what God commanded. But the Rabbi's added on top the Mosaic law ton of regulations.

If you search the phrase 'holy days (or feast), sabbath, new moon', you get 8 results from the bible. Every occurrence in the OT is talking about the sacrifice and ceremonies.

One of the main themes of Pauline writings to the new gentile Christians is Jesus' ministry replaced the Aaronic ministry, His sacrifice did away the animal sacrifice and the salvation comes by grace not by works.

The meat, drink and sacrifice were all parts of the things in respect to, associated to the holy days, sabbaths and new moon(defined in the provisional law of Moses). So Paul's writings liberated the new Christians from the ceremonies and from all rabbinical regulations that burdened men with works.

Thus it says 'let no man judge you'. Because there is no mention of meat and drink...in the sabbath commandment of God.

 

[EastCoastRemnant]

You and I become enemies...

You may have enmity towards me Crib but the feeling is not mutual..

Matt 5:44
But I say unto you, Love your enemies...

 

[ricker]

[=OntheDL;58987486]Well, Moses didn't give any additional rules apart from what God commanded. But the Rabbi's added on top the Mosaic law ton of regulations.

There you go. Not Moses

If you search the phrase 'holy days (or feast), sabbath, new moon', you get 8 results from the bible. Every occurrence in the OT is talking about the sacrifice and ceremonies.

2 Kings 4:23 23 “Why go to him today?” he asked. “It’s not the New Moon or the Sabbath.”


Isaiah 1:12-14
Your incense is detestable to me.
New Moons, Sabbaths and convocations—
I cannot bear your worthless assemblies.
14 Your New Moon feasts and your appointed festivals
I hate with all my being.
They have become a burden to me;
I am weary of bearing them.

Ezekiel 46

1 “‘This is what the Sovereign LORD says: The gate of the inner court facing east is to be shut on the six working days, but on the Sabbath day and on the day of the New Moon it is to be opened.


Hosea 2:10-12
10 So now I will expose her lewdness
before the eyes of her lovers;
no one will take her out of my hands.
11 I will stop all her celebrations:
her yearly festivals, her New Moons,
her Sabbath days—all her appointed festivals.

Amos 8:5
When will the New Moon be over
that we may sell grain,
and the Sabbath be ended
that we may market wheat?”—



You really think all these are specifically about sacrifices and Jewish ceremonies?

.