What Makes Creationism a Valid Scientific Alternative?

[46AND2]

We know the Bible is the word of God because when we test the word it works. (snip)...

Muslims say the same of the Koran.

 

[And-U-Say]

The concept is the same: God says YES, NO, or WAIT; so does mom.

God gifts us doctors and expects us to use them.

As Jesus said ...

Luke 5:31 And Jesus answering said unto them, They that are whole need not a physician; but they that are sick.

Please read that verse and answer this simple question:

Who did Jesus say sick people needed?

An interesting dodge, but I will not let you get away with it.

So if the doctors cannot cure the cancer, supposedly god can, and he doesn't... how is that like your mom? How is "no" ever good when it is in something's power to act.

So it looks like you give up and give in to my point. Any conceivable answer is a valid answer from god, so by this definition god answer's prayer. But it is meaningless, since a rock answers prayer equally well.

 

[Jamin4422]

Except God doesn't SAY yes, no, or wait, like Mom.

God does not deny us of anything that is good for us. We do not always get instant results but that is good, because if people sin onto death then they have time to repent before having to endure the consequences. God does not desire for anyone to perish but for all to come to a saving knowledge of the truth.

 

[Jamin4422]

Muslims say the same of the Koran.

That is fine, join the Muslims. But right now we are on a Christian board and I do not know all that much about the Muslim faith to be qualified to talk about it.

 

[46AND2]

That is fine, join the Muslims. But right now we are on a Christian board and I do not know all that much about the Muslim faith to be qualified to talk about it.

Way to dodge the point...again.

 

[Jamin4422]

Way to dodge the point...again.

What to dodge? I am not qualified to speak for Muslims and what they have to offer. As far as science is concerned ALL religions have the same benefit. There is no scientific evidence to show one is any better or worst then another.

Were you wanting to have a discussion on what it means to have the mind of Christ in the Early Church when they were all of one mind and one accord? We can talk about that if you want. Otherwise I am not quite sure where you are wanting to go with this.

 

[AV1611VET]

Except God doesn't SAY yes, no, or wait, like Mom.

And mom doesn't say YES, NO, or WAIT like God.

You have to observe the results.

You also have to keep two things in mind:

1. God may have broken your arm, Himself.
2. God knows the future, and your broken arm just might end up saving your life somehow.

As we put it, God may be trying to get your attention.

In his book, A Shepard Looks at Psalm 23, Phillip Keller, the owner of a mega sheep farm, points out that sometimes a sheep will find a way to get under the fence and graze on the other side, in someone else's pasture; and by doing this, other sheep start to follow suit.

All attempts to plug the hole and keep the sheep on his side fail, as the sheep will find other ways to get to the other side.

To put a stop to this, some shepherds will just shoot the sheep and be done with it, but a caring shepherd will break the sheep's legs, then carry the sheep on his shoulders until the sheep heels.

Which is exactly what would happen if you prayed to a rock.

Try praying to THE Rock ...

1 Corinthians 10:4 And did all drink the same spiritual drink: for they drank of that spiritual Rock that followed them: and that Rock was Christ.

 

[46AND2]

What to dodge? I am not qualified to speak for Muslims and what they have to offer. As far as science is concerned ALL religions have the same benefit. There is no scientific evidence to show one is any better or worst then another.

Were you wanting to have a discussion on what it means to have the mind of Christ in the Early Church when they were all of one mind and one accord? We can talk about that if you want. Otherwise I am not quite sure where you are wanting to go with this.

Of course you know what my point is. Quit acting like I'm being obtuse.

The test is biased. The result is already presumed, and so if a test is given in which the Bible fails, there must be something wrong with the test. Likewise for the Koran, according to the Muslims. But we know they can't both be correct, so the presumed result is unjustified, and thus the tests that you perform on the Bible which pass are not proof of its veracity, because you automatically dismiss failing tests out of hand.

 

[46AND2]

(snip)...


Try praying to THE Rock ...

(snip)...

Did that, for many years. Until I realized that answered prayer in the eyes of Christians is indistinguishable from unanswered prayer.

 

[AV1611VET]

An interesting dodge, but I will not let you get away with it.

Fair enough ... let's keep dancing then. I'm sure you've got a lot of ridicule you need to get off your chest.

So if the doctors cannot cure the cancer, supposedly god can, and he doesn't...

That's right. The [future] doctor He may have had lined up to do the job may have been aborted.

how is that like your mom? How is "no" ever good when it is in something's power to act.

If you ever get cancer ... and I pray you don't ... ask your mom to cure it.

So it looks like you give up and give in to my point.

Not even close ... as Bobby Fischer would say to someone who would ask for an early draw, "There's still plenty of play in the position."

Unless, of course, you want to keep up the ridicule. Then I may bow out of the conversation and go to read-only mode.

Any conceivable answer is a valid answer from god, so by this definition god answer's prayer.

Yes.

But it is meaningless, since a rock answers prayer equally well.

Get it off your chest.

 

[Loudmouth]

God gifts us doctors and expects us to use them.

Actually, modern society gifts us doctors as do medical schools. It's not as if doctors magically come out of nowhere. We also see that science is what doctors are trained in. They are not trained in using the supernatural.

 

[AV1611VET]

Did that, for many years. Until I realized that answered prayer in the eyes of Christians is indistinguishable from unanswered prayer.

Give God the credit anyway, better too much credit than none at all.

I love the prayer: God, please make me the kind of man my dog thinks I am.

Your wife fills your dog's food bowl, gives it to you, and you take it to him and he goes nuts giving you the credit.

By your standards, your dog should just shut up and eat.

 

[AV1611VET]

Actually, modern society gifts us doctors as do medical schools.

From before you were even conceived? I doubt it.

It's not as if doctors magically come out of nowhere.

There's that word 'magic' again. The word that guarantees its users that they won't fully understand what is going on.

We also see that science is what doctors are trained in.

Good ...

They are not trained in using the supernatural.

Good ...

 

[Loudmouth]

From before you were even conceived? I doubt it.

You seem to doubt most of reality.

There's that word 'magic' again. The word that guarantees its users that they won't fully understand what is going on.

No, it only guarantees that you can't even accept what you believe in.

 

[46AND2]

Give God the credit anyway, better too much credit than none at all.

I love the prayer: God, please make me the kind of man my dog thinks I am.

Your wife fills your dog's food bowl, gives it to you, and you take it to him and he goes nuts giving you the credit.

By your standards, your dog should just shut up and eat.

No surprise here. ABA (another bad analogy).

 

[CabVet]

Hey AV, if all the credit is God's, why wasn't modern medicine around 2,000 years ago? Why wasn't it around 200 years ago? I am sure God was there, right? Why did he wait so long to give us modern medicine? Or the internet? Or phones? Or cars, airplanes, etc?

 

[RickG]

God gifts us doctors and expects us to use them.

Then I gather Satan gifts us geologists?

 

[Jamin4422]

Why did he wait so long to give us modern medicine?

They had medicine for a very long time. Even 20,000 years ago they found people with a medicine pouch on their belt with up to five medicines. Like aspirn which is the inside if the white willow bark. So God has provided medicine from the very beginning. I do not have a high regard for what you call modern medicine. I tend to prefer to stick to the ancient natural medicines. Aloe Vera, Palm oil and so on. Of course we all know how advanced the Egyptians were in the use of make up. They had medicines back them also. In fact in China if you go to the old herb store and run all of them into a computer you will find that half of them can be bought in a modern drug store in pill and synthetic form.

Do you remember in the Bible the medicine that Mary gave to Jesus before he went to the cross to help him with the pain. Back then it was very expensive. I suppose that is one advantage, the modern medicine they use today would cost a lot less by comparison. In fact that will be a real plague in these last days as we are beginning to see a lot of very cheap synthetic drugs starting to hit the market.

Anyways DANIEL answered your question 2500 years ago. So go and get the answer from him.

[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]"But you, Daniel, close up and seal the words of the scroll until the time of the end. Many will go here and there to increase knowledge."[/FONT] "[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Many will be purified, made spotless and refined, but the wicked will continue to be wicked. None of the wicked will understand, but those who are wise will understand."[/FONT]

 

[AV1611VET]

Hey AV, if all the credit is God's, why wasn't modern medicine around 2,000 years ago? Why wasn't it around 200 years ago? I am sure God was there, right? Why did he wait so long to give us modern medicine? Or the internet? Or phones? Or cars, airplanes, etc?

So we could blow ourselves to bits before the first Noel?

 

[Jamin4422]

Then I gather Satan gifts us geologists?

God gives us the ability to understand the world that He created. God sends His rain on the just and the unjust. There are gifts from God that are irrevocable. That means you get to keep the gift EVEN if you do not use the gift to honor and glorify God.