What kind of power should we not deny (2 Timothy 3:5) ?

[TruthSeek3r]

2 Timothy 3:1-9 (ESV)

But understand this, that in the last days there will come times of difficulty. 2 For people will be lovers of self, lovers of money, proud, arrogant, abusive, disobedient to their parents, ungrateful, unholy, 3 heartless, unappeasable, slanderous, without self-control, brutal, not loving good, 4 treacherous, reckless, swollen with conceit, lovers of pleasure rather than lovers of God, 5 having the appearance of godliness, but denying its power. Avoid such people. 6 For among them are those who creep into households and capture weak women, burdened with sins and led astray by various passions, 7 always learning and never able to arrive at a knowledge of the truth. 8 Just as Jannes and Jambres opposed Moses, so these men also oppose the truth, men corrupted in mind and disqualified regarding the faith. 9 But they will not get very far, for their folly will be plain to all, as was that of those two men.

• What kind of power is Paul referring to in verse 5?
• How is this power being denied?
• Why is it wrong to deny this power?
• Is this the same power of Acts 1:8?

8 But you will receive power when the Holy Spirit has come upon you, and you will be my witnesses in Jerusalem and in all Judea and Samaria, and to the end of the earth.” (Acts 1:8 ESV)

3 And I was with you in weakness and in fear and much trembling, 4 and my speech and my message were not in plausible words of wisdom, but in demonstration of the Spirit and of power, 5 so that your faith might not rest in the wisdom of men but in the power of God. (1 Corinthians 2:3-5 ESV)

 

[FutureAndAHope]

2 Timothy 3:1-9 (ESV)

But understand this, that in the last days there will come times of difficulty. 2 For people will be lovers of self, lovers of money, proud, arrogant, abusive, disobedient to their parents, ungrateful, unholy, 3 heartless, unappeasable, slanderous, without self-control, brutal, not loving good, 4 treacherous, reckless, swollen with conceit, lovers of pleasure rather than lovers of God, 5 having the appearance of godliness, but denying its power. Avoid such people. 6 For among them are those who creep into households and capture weak women, burdened with sins and led astray by various passions, 7 always learning and never able to arrive at a knowledge of the truth. 8 Just as Jannes and Jambres opposed Moses, so these men also oppose the truth, men corrupted in mind and disqualified regarding the faith. 9 But they will not get very far, for their folly will be plain to all, as was that of those two men.

• What kind of power is Paul referring to in verse 5?
• How is this power being denied?
• Why is it wrong to deny this power?
• Is this the same power of Acts 1:8?

8 But you will receive power when the Holy Spirit has come upon you, and you will be my witnesses in Jerusalem and in all Judea and Samaria, and to the end of the earth.” (Acts 1:8 ESV)

3 And I was with you in weakness and in fear and much trembling, 4 and my speech and my message were not in plausible words of wisdom, but in demonstration of the Spirit and of power, 5 so that your faith might not rest in the wisdom of men but in the power of God. (1 Corinthians 2:3-5 ESV)

The power spoken of here is not referring to the demonstration of power, but rather the power over sin. The Holy Spirit gives us power over sin. The people in that passage that were being talked about may have been religious, but they denied the power of the Holy Spirit to change our lives. The progression of the passage moves to verse 6 which talks of sexual sin. Giving a depiction of what type of person was being referenced.

As Christians, we should have very little sin in our lives, and the sins we do have we should be trying to depart from. God gives us this power, if we are not making an effort, we need to question how long we can remain in that state and still be saved.

 

[fhansen]

2 Timothy 3:1-9 (ESV)

But understand this, that in the last days there will come times of difficulty. 2 For people will be lovers of self, lovers of money, proud, arrogant, abusive, disobedient to their parents, ungrateful, unholy, 3 heartless, unappeasable, slanderous, without self-control, brutal, not loving good, 4 treacherous, reckless, swollen with conceit, lovers of pleasure rather than lovers of God, 5 having the appearance of godliness, but denying its power. Avoid such people. 6 For among them are those who creep into households and capture weak women, burdened with sins and led astray by various passions, 7 always learning and never able to arrive at a knowledge of the truth. 8 Just as Jannes and Jambres opposed Moses, so these men also oppose the truth, men corrupted in mind and disqualified regarding the faith. 9 But they will not get very far, for their folly will be plain to all, as was that of those two men.

• What kind of power is Paul referring to in verse 5?
• How is this power being denied?
• Why is it wrong to deny this power?
• Is this the same power of Acts 1:8?

8 But you will receive power when the Holy Spirit has come upon you, and you will be my witnesses in Jerusalem and in all Judea and Samaria, and to the end of the earth.” (Acts 1:8 ESV)

3 And I was with you in weakness and in fear and much trembling, 4 and my speech and my message were not in plausible words of wisdom, but in demonstration of the Spirit and of power, 5 so that your faith might not rest in the wisdom of men but in the power of God. (1 Corinthians 2:3-5 ESV)

I think Paul means to deny God's reality. The Pharisees were often people who put on a show of holiness but did not first of all fear and acknoiwledge and bow to God in any real way. It was all about themselves and how they looked to the world.

“So when you give to the needy, do not announce it with trumpets, as the hypocrites do in the synagogues and on the streets, to be honored by others. Truly I tell you, they have received their reward in full." Matt 6:2

 

[Greengardener]

Here's a thought, for what it is worth: it might be useful to consider that in the Scripture you cited, there is the description of the people who are claiming godliness but denying it by their awful choices.
For people will be lovers of self, lovers of money, proud, arrogant, abusive, disobedient to their parents, ungrateful, unholy, 3 heartless, unappeasable, slanderous, without self-control, brutal, not loving good, 4 treacherous, reckless, swollen with conceit, lovers of pleasure rather than lovers of God, 5 having the appearance of godliness, but denying its power. Avoid such people. 6 For among them are those who creep into households and capture weak women, burdened with sins and led astray by various passions, 7 always learning and never able to arrive at a knowledge of the truth. 8 Just as Jannes and Jambres opposed Moses, so these men also oppose the truth, men corrupted in mind and disqualified regarding the faith.

In other places in the Bible this is referred to as being a "slave to sin," which could be a similar way of expressing "powerlessness." It isn't a place we are required to stay, which is where the other Scriptures you cited come into play, the power to not be enslaved.

 

[Fervent]

The power spoken of here is not referring to the demonstration of power, but rather the power over sin. The Holy Spirit gives us power over sin. The people in that passage that were being talked about may have been religious, but they denied the power of the Holy Spirit to change our lives. The progression of the passage moves to verse 6 which talks of sexual sin. Giving a depiction of what type of person was being referenced.

As Christians, we should have very little sin in our lives, and the sins we do have we should be trying to depart from. God gives us this power, if we are not making an effort, we need to question how long we can remain in that state and still be saved.

Great post. Though I am somewhat troubled by the last portion since amount of sin can't really be quantified. Instead of phrasing it as having very little sin, I would say we should be intolerant of sin in our lives recognizing sin that is there without excusing it or diminishing it. Of course, when it comes to those around us we should strive to see Christ in them rather than the sins they commit so as not to become hypocritical judges.

 

[RickReads]

Great post. Though I am somewhat troubled by the last portion since amount of sin can't really be quantified. Instead of phrasing it as having very little sin, I would say we should be intolerant of sin in our lives recognizing sin that is there without excusing it or diminishing it. Of course, when it comes to those around us we should strive to see Christ in them rather than the sins they commit so as not to become hypocritical judges.

I get inspired by Romans chapter 8. A very powerful passage of scripture. Verse 29 talks about being predestinated to be conformed into the image of His Son. That is what the power of godliness strives for.

Yes it is about power over sin but sin is the symptoms of the disease. Conforming into the image of his Son is where we are headed if we are being led by the Holy Spirit.

If we are sinning we deny the power. if we sin in front of another person we are destroying our chance to share the gospel so godliness is a must if we are to be effective.

As I've gotten older my desire to be conformed has become more and more of a priority. At this point, it is my primary ambition in life.

 

[Fervent]

I get inspired by Romans chapter 8. A very powerful passage of scripture. Verse 29 talks about being predestinated to be conformed into the image of His Son. That is what the power of godliness strives for.

Yes it is about power over sin but sin is the symptoms of the disease. Conforming into the image of his Son is where we are headed if we are being led by the Holy Spirit.

If we are sinning we deny the power. if we sin in front of another person we are destroying our chance to share the gospel so godliness is a must if we are to be effective.

As I've gotten older my desire to be conformed has become more and more of a priority. At this point, it is my primary ambition in life.

Romans 8 is an inspiring passage. As for the rest of what you said, I'm not sure I agree. Some of my most effective witnessing has come because I sinned(and then repented). Often striving against sin is counterproductive and we are better served striving to enter His rest. We are being formed each day anew, and often what's needed to overcome the sin in our lives is a fresh taste of His grace. That is not to say discipline is a bad thing, merely that when it crosses into asceticism it often exacerbates sin rather than decreasing it. The battle is the Lord's, not ours.

 

[RickReads]

Romans 8 is an inspiring passage. As for the rest of what you said, I'm not sure I agree. Some of my most effective witnessing has come because I sinned(and then repented). Often striving against sin is counterproductive and we are better served striving to enter His rest. We are being formed each day anew, and often what's needed to overcome the sin in our lives is a fresh taste of His grace. That is not to say discipline is a bad thing, merely that when it crosses into asceticism it often exacerbates sin rather than decreasing it. The battle is the Lord's, not ours.

I don't think my remarks conflict with anything you have said here. I was talking about the damage sin can do when it is seen by the non-Christians in your life. I was also giving my answers to the OP questions.

Renewal in the Spirit and entering rest wasn't the topic of any of those questions. And the soft approach to sin has led to the decline of the church in the west in my opinion.

I`m happy a fresh taste of grace delivered you from your sin problem. However, I got a feeling that your sin problem was minor.

 

[Fervent]

I`m happy a fresh taste of grace delivered you from your sin problem. However, I got a feeling that your sin problem was minor.

What sin is too powerful for the blood of Jesus?

 

[RickReads]

What sin is too powerful for the blood of Jesus?

You going to ask somebody that`s been going to church for about 50 years a question like that?

My recommendation is to rethink your approach.

 

[Fervent]

You going to ask somebody that`s been going to church for about 50 years a question like that?

My recommendation is to rethink your approach.

It was more rhetorical, I apologize if I caused offense as none was meant. I just mean to say that God's grace is sufficient for the meanest of sins, so no matter how minor or major my issue is what is needed is not carrots and sticks but the genuine expression of grace in my life. I know often when people speak of "grace" there's an ineffectual vision of just heaping blessings, but God showed grace to the Corinthians through His discipline as much as He showed grace through His restoration of Peter.

 

[RickReads]

It was more rhetorical, I apologize if I caused offense as none was meant. I just mean to say that God's grace is sufficient for the meanest of sins, so no matter how minor or major my issue is what is needed is not carrots and sticks but the genuine expression of grace in my life. I know often when people speak of "grace" there's an ineffectual vision of just heaping blessings, but God showed grace to the Corinthians through His discipline as much as He showed grace through His restoration of Peter.

Well, it just made me contemplate how someone like me would feel if they were in a church in need of prayer and somebody asked them a question like that.

Its a question for someone with no Christian experience. You dont ask someone like me that kind of a question unless you want to run them off.

You could accidentally turn yourself into a stumbling block.

We've gone off-topic.

 

[Blade]

Paul said. “I don’t come to you with great oratorical ability, but with the demonstration and power of the Holy Spirit” (1 Cor. 2:4)." There are groups out there that deny that power.

 

[RickReads]

Paul said. “I don’t come to you with great oratorical ability, but with the demonstration and power of the Holy Spirit” (1 Cor. 2:4)." There are groups out there that deny that power.

I think it`s a big mistake to put limits on what God is able to do.

 

[Guojing]

Paul said. “I don’t come to you with great oratorical ability, but with the demonstration and power of the Holy Spirit” (1 Cor. 2:4)." There are groups out there that deny that power.

Do you think Paul is implying that, the rest of us should also be having "demonstration and power of the Holy Spirit”, just like him?