What jurisdiction are you a part of?

[countrymousenc]

I said that this thread was embarrassing because of the bickering and petty jurisdictional debates in the first few pages of the Thread. Let me ask this.... does any seriously think that ROCOR is perhaps less Orthodox than the rest? Even after they "broke off" from the Russian Patriarch? Can we as Orthodox really act as if canonicity is that black and white? Think about it. ROCOR (for example) is in communion with Serbian Orthodox (officially) but not with most (or any?) other Jurisdictions which ARE in communion with the Serbian Church. The OCA is only recognized officially by the Russian Patriarch (at least at the beginning) and the Oecumenical Patriarch hasn't said anything about us (unless he has recently). Blah blah blah... I myself have always been throughly confused with all of this jurisdictional mess (some of it our fault, some of it just due to painful and inevitable political realities). This "mess" used to be a great stumbling block for me when I first became Orthodox. Now, I just don't care. ROCOR is Orthodox, OCA is, Russian is etc. Heck, I see the Copts and Ethiopians as our Brothers and Sisters but perhaps that's another thread for another time.

BTW, some one referred to Monachos,net (of which I am a member) as a ROCOR Forum. There are a lot of ROCOR in it (most of which do not fit the stereotype many of us have) but it is actually independant and the Moderator (Matthew Steenberg) is under the Russian Patriarch and actually works a lot with the well known Diokleia (the hybrid Greek-Russian Jursidiction of which Bishop Kallistos Ware is a part of). Just a little tidbit of information.

James

The jurisdictional mess is really confusing for me. I didn't know until recently that only the Russian Church (?) recognizes the OCA's status (autocephalous?) and I'm in an OCA parish. I understand the circumstances of ROCA/ROCOR's break with the Russian Church, and wouldn't dream of calling them non-Orthodox. That said, I am aware that some of them consider us (and most everyone else) to be heretics of some sort. Still, it's looking hopeful that ROCOR will soon be re-establishing communion with the Church in Russia.

Sigh. Can anyone direct me to a website that explains our actual degree of unity? It's disappointing to be finding out that things are not quite as they were presented to me when I initially began learning about the Orthodox Church.

 

[Rilian]

countrymouse, this is on a Catholic site, but it actually gives a good summary of all the churches.

 

[Oblio]

The OCA is only recognized officially by the Russian Patriarch (at least at the beginning) and the Oecumenical Patriarch hasn't said anything about us (unless he has recently).

As cm pointed out, this is only WRT to Autocephaly (AC) and NOT WRT recognizing that we are canonically Orthodox which are two very different things. There are allegations that some Churches will not recognize us as AC because they see us as a threat to their local dioceses and hence their funding, but that is another subject and gets into electro-political issues best left for another thread.

As a practical note, not one person questioned my 'Orthodoxy' (OCA) on my pilgrimage to Mt. Athos. If it is good enough for ...

BTW, some one referred to Monachos,net (of which I am a member) as a ROCOR Forum. There are a lot of ROCOR in it (most of which do not fit the stereotype many of us have) but it is actually independant and the Moderator (Matthew Steenberg) is under the Russian Patriarch and actually works a lot with the well known Diokleia (the hybrid Greek-Russian Jursidiction of which Bishop Kallistos Ware is a part of). Just a little tidbit of information.

James

Thanks for clearing that up James, I knew the stament of which you spoke of was not true, I just didn't know the detailed pedigree of monachos.

 

[Nickolai]

Yeah, monachos is not officialy anything. If you wanna say that anywhere is a ROCOR group on the net is would be euphrosynos cafe. But they're more for Schismatic Churches now than for ROCOR (ROCOR is not schismatic), groups like ROAC and GOC that are blatently breaking communion because of there Holier than though attitude.

 

[pnotc]

What is ACROD?

And why is there no option for us wannabes?! I mean, where is your ecumenical spirit? I insist that you include an option for the CHI jurisdiction - Church of Heterodox Inquirers! Or perhaps the PCPOCICBPFJDLCAP - Protodox Church of Potential Orthodox Converts Investigating Orthodoxy But Prevented From Joining Due To Life Circumstances At Present. Yes, you must include the PCPOCICBPFJDLCAP jurisdiction on your poll.

 

[Iacobus]

What is ACROD?

And why is there no option for us wannabes?! I mean, where is your ecumenical spirit? I insist that you include an option for the CHI jurisdiction - Church of Heterodox Inquirers! Or perhaps the PCPOCICBPFJDLCAP - Protodox Church of Potential Orthodox Converts Investigating Orthodoxy But Prevented From Joining Due To Life Circumstances At Present. Yes, you must include the PCPOCICBPFJDLCAP jurisdiction on your poll.

Well, I don't know about the last part. Sounds schismatic to me, but then I'm just paranoid.

But ACROD is American Carpatho-Russian Orthodox Diocese. It was a uniate diocese at one time, but re-entered Orthodoxy 50 or 60 years ago, and is under the Ecumenical Patriarch. Our Bishop is Metropolitan Nicholas -- a wonderful hierarch -- and the Cathedral is in Johnstown, PA. Before I entered ACROD, I would never have dreamed that I would ever be in Johnstown, but its a nice place. The web site is here

James

 

[Mary of Bethany]

Anyone who can remember that string of alphabet soup deserves his own category, IMO!


And I don't know what ACROD is either.

edit: oops! Now I do.

 

[Oblio]

PCPOCICBPFJDLCAP

American Carpatho Russian Orthodox Diocese

 

[Rilian]

pnotc, PCPOCICBPFJDLCAP joined up with Somewhat Serious Inquirers of Orthdoxy but Unable to Come to a Decision (SSIOOBUTCTAD). They just shortened their name into the Fervently Uncertain Diocese of America (FUD).

 

[Iacobus]

pnotc, PCPOCICBPFJDLCAP joined up with Somewhat Serious Inquirers of Orthdoxy but Unable to Come to a Decision (SSIOOBUTCTAD). They just shortened their name into the Fervently Uncertain Diocese of America (FUD).

Under the leadership of Bishop Elmer!

 

[Rilian]

Shhhh, we don't talk about him anymore Iacobus, at least not since he broke away and formed the Truly Fervently Uncertain Diocese.

 

[Grand_Duchess-Elizaveta]

Under the leadership of Bishop Elmer!

LOL! Personally, I am part of WTBOBMPUWSP (Wants To Become Orthodox But Must Put Up With Stubborn Priest). I suppose it is led by Bp. WANNABE.

 

[Rick of Wessex]

Countrymouse,

Sigh. Can anyone direct me to a website that explains our actual degree of unity? It's disappointing to be finding out that things are not quite as they were presented to me when I initially began learning about the Orthodox Church.

It's important to know that the Ecumenical Patriarchate recognizes OCA as a fully canonical jurisdiction. The fact that both churches are in full communion and are members of SCOBA is proof of that.

Besides, His Beatitude Herman was recived by the Ecumenical Patriach in 2003, as you can see in the picture below:

The issue is that Constantinople has yet to recognize OCA'a autocephaly, not canonicity.

For more informations about this, see here and here.

In XC,
Rick

 

[Mary of Bethany]

I have heard that it's not really unusual for it to take awhile for every patriarchy to recognize a new autocephalous "arrangement". Like most things in Orthodoxy, these things just take time. As Rick said, it doesn't mean they aren't canonical and in communion with each other.

Just like the mess in America right now - one of these days, it will be straightened out. In the meantime, as long as we steer clear of the "orthoducks", it really doesn't matter for the layperson. We should be able to worship in any truly Orthodox parish.

 

[Matrona]

Sigh. Can anyone direct me to a website that explains our actual degree of unity? It's disappointing to be finding out that things are not quite as they were presented to me when I initially began learning about the Orthodox Church.

The OCA's autocephaly is not recognized by the EP, but this isn't a critical situation and the OCA is completely legit.

Earlier I wasn't saying ROCOR was non-canonical or schismatic, I was trying to emphasize Antioch's complete legitimacy. ROCOR on the other hand, has broken communion with fully canonical Orthodox churches.

I'm not saying I belong to the He-Man ROCOR-Haters Club (a smile to anyone who gets that), but the ROCOR mission won't even participate with the other Orthodox churches in this area for the Sunday of Orthodoxy vespers, even though they're always invited. I don't think their priest could concelebrate with our priests but they could be among the congregation as a gesture of goodwill, and they never are.

 

[pnotc]

"pnotc, PCPOCICBPFJDLCAP joined up with Somewhat Serious Inquirers of Orthdoxy but Unable to Come to a Decision (SSIOOBUTCTAD). They just shortened their name into the Fervently Uncertain Diocese of America (FUD)."

The FUD has initiated some questionable practices, ie, I don't like the incense they use, so I've thrown my lot in with the less schismatic Diocese of Ortho-Heterodox. More commonly known as D'OH! We're in re-unification talks with the Diocese of Undecided Heterodox - DUH. I'll keep you all posted on the results.

 

[Oblio]

I don't like the incense they use

You have problem with rabbit hare mixed with black powder

 

[Grand_Duchess-Elizaveta]

"pnotc, PCPOCICBPFJDLCAP joined up with Somewhat Serious Inquirers of Orthdoxy but Unable to Come to a Decision (SSIOOBUTCTAD). They just shortened their name into the Fervently Uncertain Diocese of America (FUD)."

The FUD has initiated some questionable practices, ie, I don't like the incense they use, so I've thrown my lot in with the less schismatic Diocese of Ortho-Heterodox. More commonly known as D'OH! We're in re-unification talks with the Diocese of Undecided Heterodox - DUH. I'll keep you all posted on the results.

ROFLOL!

 

[Matrona]

It's disappointing to be finding out that things are not quite as they were presented to me when I initially began learning about the Orthodox Church.

I had people do this to me, too. The thing to remember is that no one is hiding skeletons, per se, it's just that how ROCOR came to be is a heavy and confusing subject, so people tend to gloss over it or ignore it.

 

[Michael G]

I'm not saying I belong to the He-Man ROCOR-Haters Club

Did you pay the Little Rascals royalties for using that name?

(from the TV show)
Darla: Alfalfa, will you swing me before we have lunch?
Alfalfa: Sure, Darla!
Spanky: Say Romeo, what about your promise to the He-Man Woman-Haters club?
Alfalfa: I'm sorry Spanky, but I have to live my own life!