John 5:25 - Very truly I tell you, a time is coming and has now come when the dead will hear the voice of the Son of God and those who hear will live.Yes, how can a dead person cooperate with being made alive from the dead ?
Not sure what you have proved here. Please clarify.Freegrace: "I disagree. God does not cause belief."
1 Corinthians 4:7 For who maketh thee to differ from another? and what hast thou that thou didst not receive? now if thou didst receive it, why dost thou glory, as if thou hadst not received it?
Matthew 13:11 He answered and said unto them, Because it is given unto you to know the mysteries of the kingdom of heaven, but to them it is not given.
12 For whosoever hath, to him shall be given, and he shall have more abundance: but whosoever hath not, from him shall be taken away even that he hath.
13 Therefore speak I to them in parables: because they seeing see not; and hearing they hear not, neither do they understand.
14 And in them is fulfilled the prophecy of Esaias, which saith, By hearing ye shall hear, and shall not understand; and seeing ye shall see, and shall not perceive:
15 For this people's heart is waxed gross, and their ears are dull of hearing, and their eyes they have closed; lest at any time they should see with their eyes and hear with their ears, and should understand with their heart, and should be converted, and I should heal them.
Freegrace: "This was in answer to the crowd's question of "what does God REQUIRE for eternal life?"
He that believes and baptized ( of the baptism and circumcision made without hands) shall be saved
Mark 16:16 He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.
Colossians 2:11 In whom also ye are circumcised with the circumcision made without hands, in putting off the body of the sins of the flesh by the circumcision of Christ:
Romans 6:4 Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.
5 For if we have been planted together in the likeness of his death, we shall be also in the likeness of his resurrection:
6 Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin.
Well then, you have to believe that most of the teaching in the Bible is incomplete. That is quite wrong.At the end of this comment I will.
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I did not list the myriad of passages that mention belief by itself because there are many, and as I said, they are incomplete.
Those who understand James know what James was talking about. In 2:24 he was not speaking about justification before God, as Paul was, which really confused Calvin, but rather, speaking about our lives before others.However, I will mention that there is only one place in all of Scripture where “faith alone” or “faith only” or “belief alone” or “belief only” can be found in Scripture. And that is in James 2:24 - “You see then that a man is justified by his actions, and NOT faith only.”
Truth is truth. God does not have a truth for you, and a different truth for me, and a different truth for someone else. The same truth applies to everyone under the NT. OT truths do not apply to us because the OT was replaced completely by the NT.I see, so that is what rightly dividing truth means to you, take every truth as truth for you?
Well then, you have to believe that most of the teaching in the Bible is incomplete. That is quite wrong.
Those who understand James know what James was talking about. In 2:24 he was not speaking about justification before God, as Paul was, which really confused Calvin, but rather, speaking about our lives before others.
In order to be justified in the eyes of others, our faith MUST be demonstrated by deeds.
Simple as that.
All of these passages are about our witness to others (those still outside of Christ) to bring them into the Body. Not to be justified by them, or in their eyes, but to win them to Christ by our witness.A few verses that show that our lives are not only before God but before others.
Rom 12:17 - Do not repay anyone evil for evil. Be careful to do what is right in the eyes of everyone.
2 Cor 8:21 - For we are taking pains to do what is right, not only in the eyes of the Lord but also in the eyes of man. so that your daily life may win the respect of outsiders and so that you will not be dependent on anybody.
1 Thess 4:12 - so that your daily life may win the respect of outsiders and so that you will not be dependent on anybody.
1 John 3:18 - Dear children, let us not love with words or speech but with actions and in truth. Here, John was teaching what James was in ch 2.
I never suggested that.Not at all. The Bible is not just a collection of separate works by separate people compiled because they sounded good together.
Of course the Bible is God's Word. His Word. But, ANY verse that contradicts another verse means the reader is misreading either verse or even both verses.The Bible is the result on a single author (the Holy Spirit) who used the hands of many men to write down His words. If the directed audience for one part of His work already knew part of His message He didn’t always put that part in their portion of His writing.
That is why we must consider ALL of the Bible before formulating our doctrine.
Let's go over what the Bible (you know, God's own Word) says about that.No, God is never concerned with us being justified in the eyes of man.
Correct, when justification is about salvation. But there is another justification; that being from others.Our justification is solely in God’s eyes.
All of these passages are about our witness to others (those still outside of Christ) to bring them into the Body.It's more than that. Believers who live consistent lives will be justified (as Christians) in the eyes of others, whether it leads them to Christ or not.
Another way to think of this is to think of justified as meaning "approved". So consistent believers will have a lifestyle that others (actually both believers and unbelievers) wlll approve of in the sense that the person is living consistently. iow, they are NOT hypocrites.
The verses are clear enough. You either believe them or you do not believe them.Not to be justified by them, or in their eyes, but to win them to Christ by our witness.
Truth is truth. God does not have a truth for you, and a different truth for me, and a different truth for someone else. The same truth applies to everyone under the NT. OT truths do not apply to us because the OT was replaced completely by the NT.
With the vast majority of verses that specifically say that salvation/eternal life is by faith with NO OTHER requirement, your claim that "other verses" do show works involved would indicate that the Bible IS contradicted.
The OT is still relevant to us because it gives us the history of God’s interaction with His people. It gives us insight into God’s character. It helps us to put the instruction in the NT into context.I see, so your idea of rightly dividing the word of truth is only starting from the page that says NT?
Simple, they hear because Christ made them alive spiritually, thats resurrection. Just like dead lazarus heard His voice. Do you think that was lazarus natural life and ability that caused him to hear Christs voice ?FreeGrace2 said: ↑
Well, dead people don't do anything. Their souls are not there. And by the time people die, their destiny is cemented.
But if you are only speaking of spiritually dead people, then we have the answer from Rom 10:9. It says with their heart.
Then I'd like your take on John 5:25 - Very truly I tell you, a time is coming and has now come when the dead will hear the voice of the Son of God and those who hear will live.
Just answered that. Thats a miracle performed by Christ !John 5:25 - Very truly I tell you, a time is coming and has now come when the dead will hear the voice of the Son of God and those who hear will live.
Nope. That's an assumption. If faith is belief in action, then there would NO NEED of any command to be faithful or obedient even.Again we go back to “what is faith?”
Faith is belief in action.
Please show me ANYWHERE ELSE where Scripture specifies that faith is belief in action.So if a verse says that we are saved through faith includes in it all the actions that are specified elsewhere that Scripture says lead to salvation.
Then Acts 11:23 and 14:22 wouldn't have been necessary.As I said, the audience to whom the letter was originally addressed already knew that association, so it was not necessary for the Spirit to tell them again.
It seems you didn't even read John 5:24. It says "the dead will hear".Simple, they hear because Christ made them alive spiritually, thats resurrection.
He was physically dead when he heard Jesus' command. Where do you find any evidence that he was resurrected from death before he heard?Just like dead lazarus heard His voice. Do you think that was lazarus natural life and ability that caused him to hear Christs voice ?
Nope. The verse is clear; the dead will hear. Not, as you presume, "the dead will be given life so that they can then hear".Just answered that. Thats a miracle performed by Christ !
You've got to be kidding! It would take SEVERAL posts to address every verse you have mashed up or twisted.For Freegrace.
1.Mark 16:16 " He who has believed and has been baptized shall be saved; but he who has disbelieved shall be condemned.
Need the Spirit for those signs of belief.
Need a good conscience ( by the Spirit) for belief..
Mark 16:16 He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.
17 And these signs shall follow them that believe; In my name shall they cast out devils; they shall speak with new tongues;
1 Peter 3:21 The like figure whereunto even baptism doth also now save us (not the putting away of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God,) by the resurrection of Jesus Christ:
2. Luke 8:12 "Those beside the road are those who have heard; then the devil comes and takes away the word from their heart, so that they will not believe and be saved.
Luke 8:15 But that on the good ground are they, which in an honest and good heart, having heard the word, keep it, and bring forth fruit with patience.
Need fruit /proof of the Spirit, and faith is a fruit of the Spirit too..
Galatians 5:22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith,
3. Acts 4:12 "And there is salvation in no one else; for there is no other name under heaven that has been given among men by which we must be saved."
The name must be written in our foreheads, or we do not know it, these are not defiled, they are the redeemed, with no guile without fault before God..
Revelation 14:1 And I looked, and, lo, a Lamb stood on the mount Sion, and with him an hundred forty and four thousand, having his Father's name written in their foreheads.
Revelation 14:4 These are they which were not defiled with women; for they are virgins. These are they which follow the Lamb whithersoever he goeth. These were redeemed from among men, being the firstfruits unto God and to the Lamb.
5 And in their mouth was found no guile: for they are without fault before the throne of God.
4. Acts 11:14 and he will speak words to you by which you will be saved, you and all your household.'
5. Acts 16:31 They said, “Believe in the Lord Jesus, and you will be saved, you and your household."
Also shown in Acts, they should repent and turn to God and do works meet for repentence..
Acts 26:20 But shewed first unto them of Damascus, and at Jerusalem, and throughout all the coasts of Judaea, and then to the Gentiles, that they should repent and turn to God, and do works meet for repentance.
Matthew 3:8 Bring forth therefore fruits meet for repentance:
6: Rom 10:9, 10 9 that if you confess with your mouth Jesus as Lord, and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead, you will be saved; 10 for with the heart a person believes, resulting in righteousness, and with the mouth he confesses, resulting in salvation.
Need a soft heart given to believe unto righteousness, and the stony heart of unbelief taken out..
Hebrews 3:12 Take heed, brethren, lest there be in any of you an evil heart of unbelief, in departing from the living God.
Ezekiel 11:19 And I will give them one heart, and I will put a new spirit within you; and I will take the stony heart out of their flesh, and will give them an heart of flesh:
7. Rom 1:16 For I am not ashamed of the gospel, for it is the power of God for salvation to everyone who believes, to the Jew first and also to the Greek.
The just live by belief, but if they draw back they die by unbelief..
Romans 1:17 For therein is the righteousness of God revealed from faith to faith: as it is written, The just shall live by faith.
Hebrews 10:38 Now the just shall live by faith: but if any man draw back, my soul shall have no pleasure in him.
8. 1 Cor 1:21 - For since in the wisdom of God the world through its wisdom did not know him, God was pleased through the foolishness of what was preached to save those who believe.
The wise do not get to believe, or the noble, or the mighty, only the fools and those who are not, to bring to nothing that that are..
1 Corinthians 1:26 For ye see your calling, brethren, how that not many wise men after the flesh, not many mighty, not many noble, are called:
27 But God hath chosen the foolish things of the world to confound the wise; and God hath chosen the weak things of the world to confound the things which are mighty;
28 And base things of the world, and things which are despised, hath God chosen, yea, and things which are not, to bring to nought things that are:
29 That no flesh should glory in his presence.
9: Eph 2:8 For by grace you have been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God;
Beseeched then, to not receive the gift ( of grace) in vain, by giving no offence to blame the ministry, but approving ourselves as ministers of God by patience, afflictions, distresses..
2 Corinthians 6:1 We then, as workers together with him, beseech you also that ye receive not the grace of God in vain.
2 (For he saith, I have heard thee in a time accepted, and in the day of salvation have I succoured thee: behold, now is the accepted time; behold, now is the day of salvation.)
3 Giving no offence in any thing, that the ministry be not blamed:
4 But in all things approving ourselves as the ministers of God, in much patience, in afflictions, in necessities, in distresses,
10. 2 Tim 3:15 and that from childhood you have known the sacred writings which are able to give you the wisdom that leads to salvation through faith which is in Christ Jesus.
faith to receive instruction in righteousness, to be perfect, thoroughly furnished unto all good works..
2 Timothy 3:16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:
17 That the man of God may be perfect, thoroughly furnished unto all good works.
11. 1 Peter 1:5 who are protected by the power of God through faith for a salvation ready to be revealed in the last time.
1 Peter 1:9 obtaining as the outcome of your faith the salvation of your souls.
Elect through sanctification of the Spirit, obedience, the the sprinkling of the blood of Christ ( to believe in)
That is the hope we are saved by, which is also the inheritence of incorruptible, undefiled and born again confirms..
1 Peter 1:2 Elect according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, through sanctification of the Spirit, unto obedience and sprinkling of the blood of Jesus Christ: Grace unto you, and peace, be multiplied.
3 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, which according to his abundant mercy hath begotten us again unto a lively hope by the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead,
4 To an inheritance incorruptible, and undefiled, and that fadeth not away, reserved in heaven for you,
1 Peter 1:23 Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever.
12. 2 Thess 2:13 But we should always give thanks to God for you, brethren beloved by the Lord, because God has chosen you from the beginning for salvation through sanctification by the Spirit and faith in the truth.
Sanctification of the Spirit and if filthy, it is not believing or salvation..
2 Corinthians 7:1 Having therefore these promises, dearly beloved, let us cleanse ourselves from all filthiness of the flesh and spirit, perfecting holiness in the fear of God.
James 1:21 Wherefore lay apart all filthiness and superfluity of naughtiness, and receive with meekness the engrafted word, which is able to save your souls.
Another extremely long post. Why are you giving me verses on salvation? I have my own list of about 24.For Freegrace on saved..
Please show me ANYWHERE ELSE where Scripture specifies that faith is belief in action.
Then Acts 11:23 and 14:22 wouldn't have been necessary.
And NO, the Bible wasn't just written for the local audience. It was written for ALL believers throughout the centuries.
The OT is still relevant to us because it gives us the history of God’s interaction with His people. It gives us insight into God’s character. It helps us to put the instruction in the NT into context.
But we are not subject to ANY of the commandments given in the OT that are not restated in the NT. So yes, when we are looking at how we are saved we only look for direct instruction in the NT. But the OT is still good for example and reference.
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