What it means to have dead faith

[BibleBeliever1611]

"Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone." - James 2:17

Having faith without works doesn't mean that the faith is not genuine or that it's not saving faith, it just means what it says: dead. Just believe what the Bible says, don't make up your own interpretations by twisting scripture.

Faith without works is dead because when you just have faith but don't do any works, you're not putting your faith into practice. You're not exercising your faith. Your faith is not active. But when you start doing the works, then your faith becomes living. It's so simple. But whether or not your faith is dead or living, it's still faith.

But people repeat the phrase "faith without works is dead" like parrots and think that it contradicts free grace or salvation by faith alone. We often make scriptures too complicated when in reality it's really simple.

 

[Dave L]

"Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone." - James 2:17

Having faith without works doesn't mean that the faith is not genuine or that it's not saving faith, it just means what it says: dead. Just believe what the Bible says, don't make up your own interpretations by twisting scripture.

Faith without works is dead because when you just have faith but don't do any works, you're not putting your faith into practice. You're not exercising your faith. Your faith is not active. But when you start doing the works, then your faith becomes living. It's so simple. But whether or not your faith is dead or living, it's still faith.

But people repeat the phrase "faith without works is dead" like parrots and think that it contradicts free grace or salvation by faith alone. We often make scriptures too complicated when in reality it's really simple.

“For in Jesus Christ neither circumcision availeth any thing, nor uncircumcision; but faith which worketh by love.” Galatians 5:6 (KJV 1900)

 

[Guojing]

"Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone." - James 2:17

Having faith without works doesn't mean that the faith is not genuine or that it's not saving faith, it just means what it says: dead. Just believe what the Bible says, don't make up your own interpretations by twisting scripture.

Faith without works is dead because when you just have faith but don't do any works, you're not putting your faith into practice. You're not exercising your faith. Your faith is not active. But when you start doing the works, then your faith becomes living. It's so simple. But whether or not your faith is dead or living, it's still faith.

But people repeat the phrase "faith without works is dead" like parrots and think that it contradicts free grace or salvation by faith alone. We often make scriptures too complicated when in reality it's really simple.

We are saved by the faith OF Christ (Galatians 2:16).

Faith of Christ is not dead because he has already done all the work necessary to give us salvation, which is the cross.

 

[Rescued One]

God gives us genuine faith resulting in the gift of eternal life and works that glorify Him. If we think we can help Him save us by doing works, we can't!

Romans 4:4-8
4 Now to the one who works, wages are not credited as a gift but as an obligation. 5 However, to the one who does not work but trusts God who justifies the ungodly, their faith is credited as righteousness. 6 David says the same thing when he speaks of the blessedness of the one to whom God credits righteousness apart from works:

7“Blessed are those
whose transgressions are forgiven,
whose sins are covered.
8 Blessed is the one
whose sin the Lord will never count against them.”


Hallelujah!

 

[Rescued One]

More:

Philippians 1 NIV
4 In all my prayers for all of you, I always pray with joy 5 because of your partnership in the gospel from the first day until now, 6 being confident of this, that he who began a good work in you will carry it on to completion until the day of Christ Jesus.

 

[mindfulzen]

We are saved by the faith OF Christ (Galatians 2:16).

Faith of Christ is not dead because he has already done all the work necessary to give us salvation, which is the cross.

I would reconsider that one if I were you. If we have lived a secular life, or lived in a secular world as christian, and accepted lies, sins and stuff, the work is not over. One must then refrain from it forevermore, regardless of whatever, and then pray for forgiveness and ask to be saved, and mean it. And not ever be tricked by the children of bleep. Or satan or demons, which should not be able to touch a hair on your head if you have received the holy spirit. So nothing to worry about in that regard. Only thing to fear is that we am tricked to sin, and going along with lies, without realizing it. But not for me, fear is a sin in my book, so I drop that too. Just be happy and laugh at every obstacle and lying fool you interact with. Laugh at danger instead of fear, and danger goes away.

 

[Guojing]

I would reconsider that one if I were you. If we have lived a secular life, or lived in a secular world as christian, and accepted lies, sins and stuff, the work is not over. One must then refrain from it forevermore, regardless of whatever, and then pray for forgiveness and ask to be saved, and mean it. And not ever be tricked by the children of bleep. Or satan or demons, which should not be able to touch a hair on your head if you have received the holy spirit. So nothing to worry about in that regard. Only thing to fear is that we am tricked to sin, and going along with lies, without realizing it. But not for me, fear is a sin in my book, so I drop that too. Just be happy and laugh at every obstacle and lying fool you interact with. Laugh at danger instead of fear, and danger goes away.

Do you think James is writing his letter to you? What does James 1:1 says? Do you consider yourself as a member of the 12 tribes?

 

[mindfulzen]

Do you think James is writing his letter to you? What does James 1:1 says? Do you consider yourself as a member of the 12 tribes?

Look, I am newly converted, and awoken of late, so I do not really know scripture well. I do not know if James speaks to me, but there is important messages in it for me. That are paramount. I must follow it for now, till I am convinced otherwise, which I see no reason for.

"But be ye doers of the word, and not hearers only, deluding your own selves. For if any one is a hearer of the word and not a doer, he is like unto a man beholding his natural face in a mirror: for he beholdeth himself, and goeth away, and straightway forgetteth what manner of man he was".

If you get faith, and you want to live it, you must live it completely, so you can look yourself in the mirror. And that means to me, no going along with lies. Do not have to call them out on others, but do not go along. You can say, "really? huh", when you hear a lie. And then they can confirm the lie or be truthful. Then I just say, "interesting", and let people bogustalk some more, digging them into a hole, then I say good bye and go home. Liars are really not good on followups, when you do not press with concrete questions, but just say it is interesting as reply. Then they tend to spin a big yarn, elaborating with more bogus to convince you.

I am not part of a tribe yet, I am not informed enough on the 12 tribes yet. I know it is something about the 12 tribes of Israel, but do not know all about it yet. Do not know if I qualify, and what is required of me. Must study first. was thinking of doing it leisurely now, and get some of the biblical movies to kickstart me on some I might be uninformed with, but I might miss details

 

[Soyeong]

"Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone." - James 2:17

Having faith without works doesn't mean that the faith is not genuine or that it's not saving faith, it just means what it says: dead. Just believe what the Bible says, don't make up your own interpretations by twisting scripture.

Faith without works is dead because when you just have faith but don't do any works, you're not putting your faith into practice. You're not exercising your faith. Your faith is not active. But when you start doing the works, then your faith becomes living. It's so simple. But whether or not your faith is dead or living, it's still faith.

But people repeat the phrase "faith without works is dead" like parrots and think that it contradicts free grace or salvation by faith alone. We often make scriptures too complicated when in reality it's really simple.

We can look at practical examples to understand what it means to have a dead faith. For instance, if someone claimed that they believe it was wrong to eat meat, but they chose to eat meat at every meal, then would you think that their claim was true or false?

 

[Guojing]

Look, I am newly converted, and awoken of late, so I do not really know scripture well. I do not know if James speaks to me, but there is important messages in it for me. That are paramount. I must follow it for now, till I am convinced otherwise, which I see no reason for.

"But be ye doers of the word, and not hearers only, deluding your own selves. For if any one is a hearer of the word and not a doer, he is like unto a man beholding his natural face in a mirror: for he beholdeth himself, and goeth away, and straightway forgetteth what manner of man he was".

If you get faith, and you want to live it, you must live it completely, so you can look yourself in the mirror. And that means to me, no going along with lies. Do not have to call them out on others, but do not go along. You can say, "really? huh", when you hear a lie. And then they can confirm the lie or be truthful. Then I just say, "interesting", and let people bogustalk some more, digging them into a hole, then I say good bye and go home. Liars are really not good on followups, when you do not press with concrete questions, but just say it is interesting as reply. Then they tend to spin a big yarn, elaborating with more bogus to convince you.

I am not part of a tribe yet, I am not informed enough on the 12 tribes yet. I know it is something about the 12 tribes of Israel, but do not know all about it yet. Do not know if I qualify, and what is required of me. Must study first. was thinking of doing it leisurely now, and get some of the biblical movies to kickstart me on some I might be uninformed with, but I might miss details

Interesting, do you hope to qualify to be one of the 12 tribes of Israel eventually?

If you contrast James 1:1 with Romans 11:13, notice what Paul said in the latter.

For I speak to you Gentiles, inasmuch as I am the apostle of the Gentiles, I magnify mine office:

For a newly converted Christian, the advice is to get your salvation doctrine will from your apostle Paul, who declared he is speaking to you, thru his letters from Romans to Philemon.

 

[fhansen]

"Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone." - James 2:17

Having faith without works doesn't mean that the faith is not genuine or that it's not saving faith, it just means what it says: dead. Just believe what the Bible says, don't make up your own interpretations by twisting scripture.

Faith without works is dead because when you just have faith but don't do any works, you're not putting your faith into practice. You're not exercising your faith. Your faith is not active. But when you start doing the works, then your faith becomes living. It's so simple. But whether or not your faith is dead or living, it's still faith.

But people repeat the phrase "faith without works is dead" like parrots and think that it contradicts free grace or salvation by faith alone. We often make scriptures too complicated when in reality it's really simple.

Yes, faith brings us into the life of grace, a life with God IOW. So now, by the Spirit, we can do the things that we could not do apart from Him, even while under the law. We can still fail to live by the Spirit, however, fail to remain in Him in which case we can talk about our faith all day long but it won’t really be of much worth. To phrase this in different terms that concisely sum up the place of faith in God’s purposes with the new covenant, I appreciate the words of Augustine:
“Without love faith may indeed exist, but avails nothing.”

 

[Maria Billingsley]

"Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone." - James 2:17

Having faith without works doesn't mean that the faith is not genuine or that it's not saving faith, it just means what it says: dead. Just believe what the Bible says, don't make up your own interpretations by twisting scripture.

Faith without works is dead because when you just have faith but don't do any works, you're not putting your faith into practice. You're not exercising your faith. Your faith is not active. But when you start doing the works, then your faith becomes living. It's so simple. But whether or not your faith is dead or living, it's still faith.

But people repeat the phrase "faith without works is dead" like parrots and think that it contradicts free grace or salvation by faith alone. We often make scriptures too complicated when in reality it's really simple.

It is impossible for a Holy Spirit filled Christian not to have good works. The fruits of the Spirit tells us those good works. In other words, no good works , no Holy Spirit. No Holy Spirit , no Salvation. Blessings.

 

[fhansen]

It is impossible for a Holy Spirit filled Christian not to have good works. The fruits of the Spirit tells us those good works. In other words, no good works , no Holy Spirit. No Holy Spirit , no Salvation. Blessings.

I agree, and one can believe and yet not live by the Spirit. It's not as if a born person is so completely changed that they're now perfect, or that their wills can no longer compromise their status vis a vis God and the righteousness that He not only gives to us but also demands of us.

 

[Albion]

Faith without works is dead because when you just have faith but don't do any works, you're not putting your faith into practice. You're not exercising your faith. Your faith is not active. But when you start doing the works, then your faith becomes living. It's so simple. But whether or not your faith is dead or living, it's still faith.

That doesn't appear to be what James is saying in his Epistle, though. His point is that a dead faith is not faith. He's talking of real people who claim to have faith but show the opposite by the way they live. That's a faith that isn't genuine.

It's a "faith" in name only. That's different from saying that you do indeed have saving faith but it's not good enough or not being put to use.

 

[bling]

"Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone." - James 2:17

Having faith without works doesn't mean that the faith is not genuine or that it's not saving faith, it just means what it says: dead. Just believe what the Bible says, don't make up your own interpretations by twisting scripture.

Faith without works is dead because when you just have faith but don't do any works, you're not putting your faith into practice. You're not exercising your faith. Your faith is not active. But when you start doing the works, then your faith becomes living. It's so simple. But whether or not your faith is dead or living, it's still faith.

But people repeat the phrase "faith without works is dead" like parrots and think that it contradicts free grace or salvation by faith alone. We often make scriptures too complicated when in reality it's really simple.

You are picking one verse out of context, since James is explaining “dead faith” in just the surrounding verses. Look at the whole section:


James 2: 14 What good is it, my brothers and sisters, if someone claims to have faith but has no deeds? Can such faith save them? 15 Suppose a brother or a sister is without clothes and daily food. 16 If one of you says to them, “Go in peace; keep warm and well fed,” but does nothing about their physical needs, what good is it? 17 In the same way, faith by itself, if it is not accompanied by action, is dead.

18 But someone will say, “You have faith; I have deeds.”

Show me your faith without deeds, and I will show you my faith by my deeds. 19 You believe that there is one God. Good! Even the demons believe that—and shudder.

20 You foolish person, do you want evidence that faith without deeds is useless?

James says: “faith without deeds is useless”, but are trying to tell me “Faith without works can still save the person, so who is right?

What is your answer to James’ rhetorical question: “Can such faith save them?”

James call them "Foolish person" which is really harsh and something we are not to say to anyone, so why did he say it to them?

 

[BibleBeliever1611]

He's talking of real people who claim to have faith but show the opposite by the way they live.

Yeah, the point of James 2 is that if you have faith, but don't do any works, other people will question if you really have faith. But that does not mean that your faith is not genuine. Nowhere does it teach that faith without works is not genuine.

 

[Guojing]

Yeah, the point of James 2 is that if you have faith, but don't do any works, other people will question if you really have faith. But that does not mean that your faith is not genuine. Nowhere does it teach that faith without works is not genuine.

Are you thinking in terms of "vertical vs horizontal justification"?

i.e, James is talking about justification before men while Paul is talking about justification before God?

 

[Sunshinee777]

“For in Jesus Christ neither circumcision availeth any thing, nor uncircumcision; but faith which worketh by love.” Galatians 5:6 (KJV 1900)

Amen.

 

[Danthemailman]

In James 2:14, we read of one who says/claims he has faith but has no works (to evidence his claim). That is not genuine faith, but a bare profession of faith. So when James asks, "Can that faith save him?" he is saying nothing against genuine faith, but only against an empty profession of faith/dead faith. Also, James does not teach that we are saved "by" works. His concern is to show the reality of the faith professed by the individual (James 2:18) and demonstrate that the faith claimed (James 2:14) by the individual is genuine.

 

[Albion]

Yeah, the point of James 2 is that if you have faith, but don't do any works, other people will question if you really have faith. But that does not mean that your faith is not genuine. Nowhere does it teach that faith without works is not genuine.

I have to disagree. You seem to be fashioning your own version of what James was saying, but what he actually was teaching was that the claims some people make about being Christian (i.e. having the faith are proven wrong by their behavior.

That may initially sound similar to your take on the subject, but James is not saying that people will question whether you really have faith or not, as though the persons in question should take care to keep up appearances.

No, James is making his own point about the difference between real faith and "pretend" faith.