What is Your View on Soteriology? (Calvinist/Arminian/etc.)

[ChristIsSovereign]

I haven't been able to read much of Spurgeon, but would like to. I think they called him "the Prince of Preachers". Do you have any other favorite thinkers?

One of my favorite pastors is John MacArthur. (Warning: He has a multi-part series condemning Catholic practice so avoid that if you're Catholic.)

 

[Apologetic_Warrior]

Did you know that John Wesley and Whitefield were great friends even though they debated over their differences in theology. John Wesley gave the sermon at George Whitefield funeral.

Yep, both were founders of the Methodist Church. A.T. Pierson who I mentioned in the post you quoted, a Presbyterian, was friends with C.I. Scofield, D.L. Moody, George Muller, and C.H. Spurgeon. It is interesting to discover the Christian roots behind so many American education institutions, and sad to compare by where the same institutions are today.

 

[anna ~ grace]

One of my favorite pastors is John MacArthur. (Warning: He has a multi-part series condemning Catholic practice so avoid that if you're Catholic.)

I don't doubt that. I have heard *some* MacArthur on the radio, and liked and agreed with some of what I heard.

Christian preachers often give wholly applicable, good, sound advice when preaching on personal holiness, the importance of prayer, forgiveness, and such topics. The kind of things that probably all of us would find good, and worth listening to.

But beyond this, sometimes, our similarities can break down a bit.

 

[ChristIsSovereign]

I don't doubt that. I have heard *some* MacArthur on the radio, and liked and agreed with some of what I heard.

Christian preachers often give wholly applicable, good, sound advice when preaching on personal holiness, the importance of prayer, forgiveness, and such topics. The kind of things that probably all of us would find good, and worth listening to.

But beyond this, sometimes, our similarities can break down a bit.

Our similarities are scarce, only the core tenets of the faith do we share, e.g. Jesus Christ is God, the Trinity, etc.

 

[Apologetic_Warrior]

I haven't been able to read much of Spurgeon, but would like to. I think they called him "the Prince of Preachers". Do you have any other favorite thinkers?

Hmm...C.S. Lewis isn't a favorite of mine anymore, but I still have appreciation for him, and consider him a great thinker. I hesitate to recommend my favorite thinker, but I suppose a couple of his most gifted students would be runner's up. Dr. Greg L. Bahnsen and Dr. John M. Frame are among my modern favorites. It would be easier to find Dr. Frame's writings they are more plentiful and more widely available. Hope this helps in some way. God bless you

 

[anna ~ grace]

Hmm...C.S. Lewis isn't a favorite of mine anymore, but I still have appreciation for him, and consider him a great thinker. I hesitate to recommend my favorite thinker, but I suppose a couple of his most gifted students would be runner's up. Dr. Greg L. Bahnsen and Dr. John M. Frame are among my modern favorites. It would be easier to find Dr. Frame's writings and they are more plentiful. Hope this helps in some way. God bless you

What do you think of Paul Washer?

 

[Apologetic_Warrior]

What do you think of Paul Washer?

Honestly do not know much about him other than he is a Calvinist and is relatively well known and liked among Calvinists. Wish I could give more of an opinion, but just being honest.

 

[anna ~ grace]

God bless you, too, by the way.

 

[Ron Gurley]

John 3 as explained in Ephesians 2.

 

[ChristIsSovereign]

NVM

 

[ChristIsSovereign]

Honestly do not know much about him other than he is a Calvinist and is relatively well known and liked among Calvinists. Wish I could give more of an opinion, but just being honest.

Upon reading Romans 8:29-30, I have changed my position from Prevenient to Infralapsarian. The Calvinism in that verse is inescapable. Infra because God is NOT the author of evil.

 

[Apologetic_Warrior]

Upon reading Romans 8:29-30, I have changed my position from Prevenient to Infralapsarian. The Calvinism in that verse is inescapable. Infra because God is NOT the author of evil.

That is a bit of a difficult issue, it is complicated and could nearly drive a person insane. God is not the author of evil, but he created agents such as satan knowing he would rebel, and other agents such as Adam and Eve knowing they would sin, and even making it so the evil one would be in the garden to challenge the words God had spoken to them and tempt them. Some have compared this to leaving a loaded gun on a table with children around. While not a pleasant picture, it is difficult to argue against.

There are actually many, many examples from Scripture of God directly doing things that would give us pause as finite creatures. Who caused it to rain for forty days and forty nights? Who sent the evil spirit that slaughtered all the firstborn males in Egypt?

A verse that really humbles me on the whole problem of evil and even puzzles me to this day though is...

Isaiah 45:7 "I form light and create darkness, I make well-being and create calamity, I am the LORD, who does all these things."

The word for calamity in the KJV is "evil", to look into further meaning from Strong's:

H7451

רָעָה רַע
ra‛ râ‛âh
rah, raw-aw'
From H7489; bad or (as noun) evil (naturally or morally). This includes the second (feminine) form; as adjective or noun:—adversity, affliction, bad, calamity, + displease (-ure), distress, evil ([-favouredness], man, thing), + exceedingly, X great, grief (-vous), harm, heavy, hurt (-ful), ill (favoured), + mark, mischief, (-vous), misery, naught (-ty), noisome, + not please, sad (-ly), sore, sorrow, trouble, vex, wicked (-ly, -ness, one), worse (-st) wretchedness, wrong. [Including feminine ra’ah; as adjective or noun.]

So to not write a novel here, my thoughts on this theodicy problem are solved, in semi-layman terms by making a distinction between the direct actions of God, and indirect results through secondary causal agents which when said and done, although in opposition to the prescriptive will of God, bring about the sovereign will of God. So for God, it's always a win - win, He is the undefeated Victor, the Alpha and Omega.

 

[ChristIsSovereign]

That is a bit of a difficult issue, it is complicated and could nearly drive a person insane. God is not the author of evil, but he created agents such as satan knowing he would rebel, and other agents such as Adam and Eve knowing they would sin, and even making it so the evil one would be in the garden to challenge the words God had spoken to them and tempt them. Some have compared this to leaving a loaded gun on a table with children around. While not a pleasant picture, it is difficult to argue against.

There are actually many, many examples from Scripture of God directly doing things that would give us pause as finite creatures. Who caused it to rain for forty days and forty nights? Who sent the evil spirit that slaughtered all the firstborn males in Egypt?

A verse that really humbles me on the whole problem of evil and even puzzles me to this day though is...

Isaiah 45:7 "I form light and create darkness, I make well-being and create calamity, I am the LORD, who does all these things."

The word for calamity in the KJV is "evil", to look into further meaning from Strong's:

H7451

רָעָה רַע
ra‛ râ‛âh
rah, raw-aw'
From H7489; bad or (as noun) evil (naturally or morally). This includes the second (feminine) form; as adjective or noun:—adversity, affliction, bad, calamity, + displease (-ure), distress, evil ([-favouredness], man, thing), + exceedingly, X great, grief (-vous), harm, heavy, hurt (-ful), ill (favoured), + mark, mischief, (-vous), misery, naught (-ty), noisome, + not please, sad (-ly), sore, sorrow, trouble, vex, wicked (-ly, -ness, one), worse (-st) wretchedness, wrong. [Including feminine ra’ah; as adjective or noun.]

So to not write a novel here, my thoughts on this theodicy problem are solved, in layman terms by making a distinction beween the direct actions of God, and indirect results through secondary causal agents which when said and done, although in opposition to the prescriptive will of God, bring about the sovereign will of God. So for God, it's always a win - win, He is the undefeated Victor, the Alpha and Omega.

Hm, I see that Infra/Supra is a time-bound argument... 'before the Fall' and 'after the Fall...'

God isn't bound by time, so there should be a (?)lapsarian position that means 'beyond the Fall.'

 

[Apologetic_Warrior]

Hm, I see that Infra/Supra is a time-bound argument... 'before the Fall' and 'after the Fall...'

God isn't bound by time, so there should be a (?)lapsarian position that means 'beyond the Fall.'

I wanted to vote, but chose not to, because I am not sold on either lapsarian position, not one hundred percent that I would die for the belief or hang everything on it, or even be overly dogmatic. It very well could be a case of a "false dilemma" with another option, which is why I quoted: "Many Calvinists reject both lapsarian views for various reasons." Try as we may, none of us are gonna figure out God all the way, and some like me may figure out less, but it is well with my soul.

 

[ChristIsSovereign]

I wanted to vote, but chose not to, because I am not sold on either lapsarian position, not one hundred percent that I would die for the belief or hang everything on it, or even be overly dogmatic. It very well could be a case of a "false dilemma" with another option, which is why I quoted: "Many Calvinists reject both lapsarian views for various reasons." Try as we may, none of us are gonna figure out God all the way, and some like me may figure out less, but it is well with my soul.

Amen. I lean infra but I ain't sold on either, true.

 

[Butch5]

Really curious, that's all.

None of the above. Mine is the Biblical view.

 

[ChristIsSovereign]

None of the above. Mine is the Biblical view.

If we claim that we are wise, we are fools.

 

[Butch5]

If we claim that we are wise, we are fools.

What's that have to do with what I said? You asked a question and I answered it. What you listed in the OP are the theologies men have created. They're not what the Scriptures teach.

 

[def]

Appreciated. Here's an article I referred to... to explain the apparent contradiction between Paul and James in this regard: Does James Contradict Paul?

NPP has a different view.

 

[Marvin Knox]

Really curious, that's all.

Reformed I suppose you could say and disagreeing with most out and out Calvinists on limited atonement in particular (as did Calvin himself). I have a general agreement on the other so called 5 points (very much nuanced of necessity).

 

[hedrick]

I’ve been thinking about this because of another thread. I don’t believe any of the alternatives proposed are really based on Jesus’ teachings.

I believe humans are estranged from God, that Christ came to reconcile us, and that his followers are called to join him in that mission. But there’s no reason to think that everyone else is damned.

Most Christians actually accept something like this, because most Christians think some non-Christians are saved, although generally their soteriology doesn’t really reflect that fact.

So the world outside the Church is the sphere in which the Church operates, representing Jesus. Obviously it would be nice if we could bring everyone in. But we’re leaven and the light on the lamp stand, not the whole cake or the whole room. I don’t know precisely how God will judge the world, but there are clearly people who reject him.

Paul’s discussion of justification was part of a discussion of who are members of the Church, so I don’t think it’s an answer to salvation of the world. Justification by faith says that we’re defined by where our loyalty lies (the real meaning of pistis), not by doing specific cultic actions (circumcision) or even a certain quota of works. However having become part of the Kingdom we will be held responsible for how we represent Christ.

But this doesn’t answer the other question of how the world will be judged. Paul says we shouldn’t judge it, and I believe Jesus does as well. However Paul does say that in the end every knee will bow to him, and everyone will be judged by him.

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Incidentally, none of this has anything to do with Calvinism. That's really about how all of this relates to God's plan and calling.