What is Wrong with going to Church?

[Godzchild]

Now I have a question for you. How does one fellowship with the backs of other people's heads.

Good point!!!!!!

 

[Godzchild]

Once you are born again into the new life that Jesus gives you, you grow in both learning and accountability. Faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the Word of God. Here a little, there a little, line upon line, precept upon precept, like it says in Isaiah. It is impossible to have faith without the Word.-

John 1 v 1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was WITH GOD and the Word WAS GOD. 2 The same was in the beginning with God.

14 And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us....

The Church in Acts met in homes for sure. But they took their Bibles with them.

There was no such thing as a bible - they did, however, have the Word in them though.

 

[BeforeThereWas]

What's wrong with going to Church? Nothing except one thing:

The Church is the body of Christ, NOT a buidling.

Yes, but it can be difficult trying to explain this to someone who routinely hands over the primary portion of their giving to organized religion, most of which abuses that giving rather than using it to help others by meeting their needs.

Most attenders and supporters of organized religion don't seem to realize that they are giving to something from which they reap direct benefit. If I were to do that same thing for any other organization, such as a country club that has, for example, a few tokens of charitable outreach, and maybe a few token evangelistic expenditures, I would be looked down upon by most, and rightfully so. Strangely, though, attendees of organized religion somehow wash their hands clean of the same sin just because they are giving to something with the label "church" slapped onto its name.

I could take my local country club and slap the term "church" in its name, and just about have the same thing...as long as I hire a professional clergy class of people to run it, and pattern its operations in conformity to the tradition of churchianity. So, would I then be justified in handing over the primary portion of my giving to such a thing? Not at all, but it all hinges upon how it is viewed, how much sparkle and glitter it has, and the quality of suits the ushers wear, therefore aligning themselves closer to being Levites.

To put the question,"What's wrong with going to church"? into sharper focus and contrast, it should be asked, "What's right with 'going to church?'" We have the freedom to go almost anywhere. The difference is in what we do at any given location to which we travel. Religious exercise is just that.....religious. Anyone can go through those motions. It's easy. Getting down into the filth and mire of the trenches is a whole different matter, however. Entering into a place where relationship is real, well, that sometimes exacts a cost too great for those who prefer to fade into the woodwork and let the professional clergy class do their work for them.

This is by no means an exhastive overview, and it certainly does no justice for those organizations that truly are busying themselves about the work of the Lord, but they are few and far betweenm, and an increasing rarity.

As you have probably noticed, the blitz and glitz of organized religion no longer holds sway over my viewpoint. I am no longer blinded by such shallow visions. Heaven is so much more than what most of organized reliiogn could ever hope to represent. Heaven is the smile of a poor child who is given food and shoes who had almost nothing before. Heaven is relfected in the tears of grartitude rolling down the cheecks of a poor, single mother's face who is relieved of the burden of her bills, even if for just a few months, and who is given food to fill the shelves of her small kitchen.

What's wrong with going to "church". Well, as the old saying goes, "There's no right and positive answer to the wrong question."

BTW

 

[ThankyouJesus]

There is nothing wrong with it ~ for me it is just not being closer to him, I do not feel it ~ especially as a new comer ~ you are treated like you do not have a enough faith, or have not earned it ~ that is how I felt ~ to be honest ~ I get more daily at home ~ with no idols/looking at anything ~ just me to him ~

 

[New_Wineskin]

There is nothing wrong with it ~ for me it is just not being closer to him, I do not feel it ~ especially as a new comer ~ you are treated like you do not have a enough faith, or have not earned it ~ that is how I felt ~ to be honest ~ I get more daily at home ~ with no idols/looking at anything ~ just me to him ~

Wonderful post .

 

[FLANDIDLYANDERS]

So I guess it's been said before but CF is just like Church.

In theory all are welcome,but there is a heirarchy according to things like;

Whether you believe exactly what is prescribed by the organisation,
How much you give financially,
How popular your views are,
How well you adhere to the rules.

On this last note, I must say that the problems I encounterin CF are similar to those I have had in Building/Meeting-Focussed Church; As an example;

I sometimes break the "non swearing rule" within the Forum. The reason I am told this is not allowed is because it is against the rules ( which is fair enough) it is then underlined by statements such as, "because this is a Christian Forum,such language is unacceptable" !!!!!!

This is basically a BIG problemwithin Building/Meeting-Led Church, that to impose a cultural rule the church feelsit has to claimthat it is a rule made up by God, Jesus or is the "christian" thing to do!!!!

I wonder if Jesus would have been allowed to call Pharasees a "brood of vipers" if he were posting to themin CF???

Now,don'tget me wrong,I amno better than anyone else,and my own understanding of Jesus is nomore enlightened. But my preferences are mine,not God's or "Christianity's"!! And this is THE major problemwith GOING TO CHURCH (which is an...oxymoron or just plain contradiction!)

Not sure if talikng about CF policies in this way is allowed, but it is relevant to this post!!! When I do something differently to some other Christian or church within THEIR walls (virtual or otherwise) - like the time I was told to take my turban off in David Wilkerson's church in NYC - which apperently was God's house!!!) often the reason given is because it is God's will or some such trash. Honestly,when I am told it is policy,I comply,or not - and face the consequences (as the Bible says to!).

My BIG concern here is this: I'ma big man, long-time Christian who knows their place in Christ - what on Earth happens to a "non-Church" or "non-Christian" who braves the stone-walls of church and commits a cultural faux-pas? Where is the all-loving Christ reflected in his bride then???

Anyone get me? Sorry for the length of the rant.

 

[heron]

No-swearing rules sometimes originate with the web hosting service that a forum uses.

I agree that heirarchies develop--here, I see it mostly in people with different viewpoints. One can hop from one subforum to another and be annhiliated in one, lauded in another.

Financially here, giving gets you blessings--it keeps the corruption down.

 

[New_Wineskin]

So I guess it's been said before but CF is just like Church.

In theory all are welcome,but there is a heirarchy according to things like;

Whether you believe exactly what is prescribed by the organisation,
How much you give financially,
How popular your views are,
How well you adhere to the rules.

On this last note, I must say that the problems I encounterin CF are similar to those I have had in Building/Meeting-Focussed Church; As an example;

I sometimes break the "non swearing rule" within the Forum. The reason I am told this is not allowed is because it is against the rules ( which is fair enough) it is then underlined by statements such as, "because this is a Christian Forum,such language is unacceptable" !!!!!!

This is basically a BIG problemwithin Building/Meeting-Led Church, that to impose a cultural rule the church feelsit has to claimthat it is a rule made up by God, Jesus or is the "christian" thing to do!!!!

I wonder if Jesus would have been allowed to call Pharasees a "brood of vipers" if he were posting to themin CF???

Now,don'tget me wrong,I amno better than anyone else,and my own understanding of Jesus is nomore enlightened. But my preferences are mine,not God's or "Christianity's"!! And this is THE major problemwith GOING TO CHURCH (which is an...oxymoron or just plain contradiction!)

Not sure if talikng about CF policies in this way is allowed, but it is relevant to this post!!! When I do something differently to some other Christian or church within THEIR walls (virtual or otherwise) - like the time I was told to take my turban off in David Wilkerson's church in NYC - which apperently was God's house!!!) often the reason given is because it is God's will or some such trash. Honestly,when I am told it is policy,I comply,or not - and face the consequences (as the Bible says to!).

My BIG concern here is this: I'ma big man, long-time Christian who knows their place in Christ - what on Earth happens to a "non-Church" or "non-Christian" who braves the stone-walls of church and commits a cultural faux-pas? Where is the all-loving Christ reflected in his bride then???

Anyone get me? Sorry for the length of the rant.

I was almost finished once and my PC kicked me out .

 

[New_Wineskin]

I was almost finished once and my PC kicked me out .

Doh!!! It happened again .

 

[New_Wineskin]

Doh!!! It happened again .

I will try again later when I cool down .

 

[ThankyouJesus]

I will try again later when I cool down .

needed that ~You will come again

 

[Buttermilk]

Type it in a word processer document and then copy and paste it

 

[New_Wineskin]

Type it in a word processer document and then copy and paste it

Thanks . I was actually just about to do so on my first draft when it happened . On the next one , I just started and was thinking that it usually doesn't happen a second time . I will do so the next time .

 

[FLANDIDLYANDERS]

 

[heron]

Try turning off some of the graphics in your cf profile settings...maybe having all those up are slowing things down? (Or turn them off in your browser prefs.)

 

[lismore]

On a note of constructive criticism.

Having a building which only opens once or twice a week for services is a big waste of a building. If a church was more like a community centre and less like the forbidden city then this would be better.

Imagine if you needed prayer, help, money, counselling for suicidal thoughts a place to sleep- whoever you were- you could head for the church building. If you knew the church was open 24/7 and there for you. if you knew thats what a church was- God's help centre for you. Whoever, whenever, whatever could come. Come all you who are weary and heavy laden! Then you would get the needy and lost coming in. Afterall, thats what Jesus did, met people at their point of need -whenever and whoever!

At the moment the church eats money and puts on a weekly show. They do a couple of outreach projects with a fraction of what they take in and for a couple of hours a week.

Lismore

 

[heron]

I was at a church where they considered adding on a room with a separate locking system that could be open all night. The intent was for a 24-hour HOP (house of prayer, as in music and prophetic). I think they gave this up after looking at safety and liability issues, the possibility of people wandering in (cough cough). I've seen this concept work with college library study rooms, with adequate (armed?) security.

I've been in churches with Wednesdays-only, and ones with 18-hour full parking lots. The overactive ones tended to focus inward, get picky, have driven and exhausted members and clergy on the verge of nervous breakdowns. But I agree--businesses use their space.

One church I attended rented the sanctuary to other emerging churches, ones with small enough congregations that they didn't need a full building. This proved a warm ecumenical gesture, and it was nice to bump into others in transit.

These space issues are an incredibly good reason for house churches. They seem related to what God is doing in shaking up a lot of edifices these days...preparing for a different economy or societal situation.

 

[sk8Joyful]

I have a question.
Yes,
but sadly (as I just found out, for the 5th. time today) -
we are NOT allowed speaking TRUTH. It isn't allowed,
not here.
(but that's OK too; because
I've just discovered the IGNORE- feature. Works Great !)
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
My question is: just what is wrong with going to church?
Every-thing.
~~~~~~~~
Wherein lies the objection?

See #-1 above:
When only 'popular opinion' matters. Why bother?
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
My personal view is that going to a church can only benefit the Christian. [/QUOTE]
Yes, *your personal view*: which is obviously Radically-different, from other people's experiences...
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Plus a church is a public presence that can reach out to the community. [/QUOTE]
Assuming 'a Christian wants/needs to be reached out to '.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
If nothing else, it is listed in the phone book so someone looking for fellowship, counsel or salvation can simply give the church a call and find someone to talk to. I don’t this as being possible with a home fellowship group. [/QUOTE]
Ah, but
when *Christians can gather in Christ's AGAPE-love* - there's
no further need. So, one doesn't need a "Church".
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

 

[discernomatic]

Along the same line of the community center. The RC church here in Italy has something called the oratorio or oratory, started by Don Bosco. An explanation of its beginning is here http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/02689d.htm

Every town in Italy that has a RC church - which is practically every town - has at least one oratory. They are nationally linked with one another. They primarily reach out to children. Each year has a different theme for the children. The oratory is synonymous with church grounds. Currently Catholic children have four years of catechism which takes place in the church and oratory. My local oratorio offers courses three days a week after school. Evening courses for adults are often offered as well in the form of catechism or bible studies. They also have fundraising dinners, cake sales and fests every so often. Everything is done on a volunteer basis.

Each oratory has a room with activities such as pool, foosball and the like with a few tables and a snack bar. Oratories are usually open in the afternoons on week days and on Sunday afternoons as well. Adults bring their children to catechism or to play in the afternoon and stay to converse, the elderly meet there as well. Sports teams are arranged for the children such as soccer and volleyball complete with practice and tournaments. Teens hang out there too, although the level of coolness in doing so is negotiable. Towns that have no other activities can benefit from an oratory. The oratories also offer summer camp that ranges from three to six weeks. Proselytization does not take place actively except during the summer camp when mass is visited every day or of course the respective adult courses and catechism.

I think that the idea is great if you want to get the most out of a church building and church grounds already in existence; the idea could be implemented by Protestants as well, although smaller churches would have a harder time doing it. House churches, of course could not because they have no property. I tend to favor the house church model myself, but those with a church building could get more "mileage" out of it by using it for something every day rather than letting it moulder for six days a week.

I also know of two congregations that share the same building because each could not afford one on its own. There is more than enough space and time each week for their respective activities.

 

[BeforeThereWas]

More and more organizations are opening up their buildings to private school operations, which is a good thing in some respects, and not so good in others. It at least offers an alternative to public schooling. So, at least some are doing something besides letting that thing sit there and rot and rust most of the time.

One does have to admit, however, that much emotion surrounds that thing most call a "church". They fight tooth and nail for the thing, they sink their hard-earned money into it, as if what they made in their paycheck was a form of increase, which it is not.

I can therefore understand the mad drive beyond the bounds of honesty for them to teach the requirement of tithing to their people, although I do not agree. The outlandish expenditures organizations entail in order to survive demand an enormous amount of financial resources to keep it going. That alone speaks of the greed of man for what is beyond reason. Simple buildings can be just as effective tools as extravagent architecture, although far less costly.

What is even more sad is that organizations, especially those that have fancy, overly large buildings, think they represent the Lord who had nowhere to lay His head. If this imagry were not so pathetic in relation to organized religion, then perhaps they might have a stronger claim on legitimacy.

BTW