dyanm said:
Liberty Baptist Church and Vernon, Alabama is a small GOOD all round church. University Cathedral in LA, CA is an excellent teaching (its on the university level) facility.
Ok. What's happening here is that this is geting way off course from where it was originally headed. You're taking issue with things I never said. I didn't say anyhting about the quality of teaching. I specifically mentioned fellowship. Could you share with us your understanding of true, genuine fellowship? What do you believe is the central, biblical purpose for the gethering of believers?
I too have shared the Spiritual abuse of many a "organized" church.
Again, none of us was talking about spiritual abuse. Organized religion has, within its inherent makeup, various elements that are in fact existent in almost every church insitution across this country. From what you've described, yours is no different. Now, correct me if I'm wrong, but do all of you sit in chairs, pews, or whatever, going through the motions of the "service" ritual? (I'm not angry, just trying to get at the root of the confusion so that you can understand what we are really saying.) You see, it's the "restaurant" mentality with which we take issue with. The fact that you used the restaurant simile in itself speaks loud volumes about your understanding of what you think the gathering of believers is about. In restaurants, you are fed only by the authorized staff of that establishment. In fellowship, TRUE fellowship, we go not only to be fed by others, but to feed others as well. When you're an audience, you're not allowed to feed others, but only to be fed...and that only happens IF the "pastor" actually happens to preach a message that just so happens to touch upon your own life and needs. This concept that one man can touch all the lives in the place is a grossly distorted concept that's still going on today, only because of the strength and power of tradition. Do you remember what Jesus had to say about religious traditions?
This thread in many ways sounds like women complaining about men "All the good ones are gone". AND I JUST say No--they are there, they are not however unfortunately under every steeple.
Maybe that's how
you see it, but then, with all due respect, this shows that you aren't comprehending the depths of what we're really saying. This is apples and oranges.
Hey, don't give up on us. We're not talking about institutions themselves. We're talking about a
mindset that is itself the stifling force within those institutions that's the problem. Being organized was never the issue. The mindset we've been talking about siffles and kills out any possibility for genuine, deep fellowship from blossoming within the main gathering of all those people. The misconception about the Biblical idea of "order" almost forces the Lord to share His throne with a concept that has been blown way out of proportion by tradition rather than any true and genuine understanding of how that term was used in the text.
Another concept is I don't always eat at one restaurant, When I want breakfast I may eat at one type and when I want dinner another may be better suited. Attending more than one church can be beneficial.
Well, since you appear to think that this is a proper simile, consider this:
You aren't allowed to go into a restaurant and feed the other
customers (how ironic, right gang) yourself. If you try, they throw you out...poste haste. The same goes for organized religion. You try
feeding others in the gathering, the ushers throw you out...poste haste. There isn't one institution in any city within which I have ever visited that serves as an antithesis to what I've just said. Believe me, I've asked, and haven't yet run across one. From the terminology you've used, and the concepts and comparisons you've put forth, yours is no different than all the rest in relation to the central theme of what we've been talking about.
BTW
