What is Wrong with going to Church?

[lookforfaith]

Thanks for all of your replies. You have really made a difference. I was beginning to think something was wrong with me. It is wonderful to meet such a group of people.

 

[New_Wineskin]

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Everyone has the choice to believe what they want but this is a quote from the Bible, God's Word. God spoke through Paul and if we are not to do what Paul said then we may as well throw away alot of the New Testment. He specifically said "assembling of ourselves together"

First , it is debateable that Paul wrote that . Second , Paul does not say that it was a command . The author certainly didn't say that it was a command from the Lord . Third , calling "the bible" "God's Word" is a handed down term and is not used in the Scriptures . This is most clearly evident by the fact that "word" is singular while "Scriptures" is plural . The term for the newer writings "New Testament" is also inaccurate . Those writings talk *about* the New Covenant - they are *not* the New Covenant themselves .

But , most importantly , the writing from which that passage is taken has several themes and one of them is that the New Covenant isn't about writings on paper or stone as the Lord writes on His people's hearts . The author was not writing a new law . That was no command . If it was , the author would go into detail as to what constituted a proper assembly so that one would be able to obey it properly . The way that most people "obey" that law , they actually disobey it because many pass by other assemblies and give up assembling with those in those places . There is no picking of so-called "churches" . Membership is a direct disobedience to that command ( if it is a command ) .

 

[FLANDIDLYANDERS]

Also, by *assembling*, how do we interpret this word?

My church includes non-Christians, and non-church, so by this definition I am assembling even when walking the streets and helping my neighbours.

There is also a wider Biblical perspective to consider.

Jesus was anti-Religion. Jesus loved people. Jesus hated oppressive behaviour - especially corporately. In fact, so did Paul!

Oh, and how much *assembling* did Paul do in prison or tent-making?

 

[breezynosacek]

Assemble-1) to gather or collect together. 2) To set in order. 3) to put together.

I assemble people together all of the time.

Assembly 1) a group of people, esp. one gathered together for a special purpose such as worship. 2) a meeting together of people.

Jesus said that where two or more are gathered together in His name there He would be also.

Doesn't say anything about having to do it in a building. I prefer picnic tables myself.

 

[rasplundjr]

Skimmed bits and pieces of this thread and felt the need to throw in my 2 cents.

My grandfather while nearing his time to go home to the lord was asked time and time again, badgered one might say by his siblings, and by members of the church he once attended as to why he didn't go to church anymore, why not get "right" with the lord. My grandfather promptly replied that God isn't just in that pile of sticks and bricks. God in in us every day everywhere we go whether we have accepted him or not, God is always there ready for us to come to him, ready for us to lean on him, ready for us to cry on his shoulder, and make our way right with him.

My grandfather was very ill inthe last few years of his life. It wasn't reasonable for him to try and attend church. Also church was only once a week for a few hours. My grandfather talked with the lord everyday, and for hours on end when his time was nearing.

I don't feel the need for driving to a certain spot and sitting with other people whom I don't know waiting to be filled with God's grace, forgiveness and love. I have God's grace and forgivness and love with me at all times, like my grandfather. I never got to meet the man, but my mother tells me that we had a lot of beliefs in common.

What's wrong with going to church, not a single thing, and on the flipside there is nothing wrong with realizing that we are the houses of God, no pile of mortar and stone. Church is the people, we go out among people everyday. You don't need to go to some building to worship on a Sunday (well Saturday or whatever day your faith takes you) You can worship right now in front of the computer, on your drive to work, realxing in your tub at night, sitting on your back porch looking over a peaceful lake.
worship is between you and the Lord, you can make it as public or as private as you wish.

again just my two cents.... okay maybe it more like two dollars I get long winded sometimes.....

 

[BeforeThereWas]

You don't need to go to some building to worship on a Sunday (well Saturday or whatever day your faith takes you) You can worship right now in front of the computer, on your drive to work, realxing in your tub at night, sitting on your back porch looking over a peaceful lake. worship is between you and the Lord, you can make it as public or as private as you wish.

Good post.

Additionally, I've come to realize that corporate worship is a rather precarious concept; at least, the way it's practiced today. People seem content to confuse the terms "praise" and "worship," as if they are interchangable. Well, they aren't the same thing. They are mutually exlusive. Praise is not a magical formula for making TRUE worship a reality. Jesus defined, once and for all, TRUE worship that is acceptable to the Father. The words He used to define TRUE worship describe a way of life, not an activity in some building while looking at the backs of other people's heads or looking to the ceiling. If those lives are not already immersed in the life of worship before they come into that place, they aren't going to have it magically bestowed upon them by just the right mood music and emotionally powerful words. That's not worship. It's just emotion. TRUE worship is NOT based upon nor fueled by human emotion. It's a life-defining reality that one chooses to either accept or reject. It seems that most have chosen to replace it with a ritualistic counterfeit. If institutionalist's lives were already defined by that Spirit and Truth, then they would have little to no use for institutionalism, but would instead seek TRUE fellowship with another's FACE rather than the BACK of their HEADS, and they would seek to be actively serving the Lord and each other rather than to support a religious clergy to do it for them.

Is there a problem with institutionalism? Yes, as is the case with anything that's man-made. We've already been told what we need to know in God's written word. All those folks need to do in order to be free is to simply read it for what it says, and start living what is taught therein.

BTW

 

[New_Wineskin]

Assemble-1) to gather or collect together. 2) To set in order. 3) to put together.

I assemble people together all of the time.

Assembly 1) a group of people, esp. one gathered together for a special purpose such as worship. 2) a meeting together of people.

That may be what it means in English . It may have been different at the time of the writing .

Jesus said that where two or more are gathered together in His name there He would be also.

Oops . Another person adopting the usual misquote thinking that it is actually in the Scriptures . Nothing wrong with that . I always find it amusing . I especially love it when a bible-thumper misquotes that passage .

Doesn't say anything about having to do it in a building. I prefer picnic tables myself.

I completely agree .

Also doesn't say that one *must* do so . Neither does the passage say anything about how often or how long .

 

[New_Wineskin]

Skimmed bits and pieces of this thread and felt the need to throw in my 2 cents.

My grandfather while nearing his time to go home to the lord was asked time and time again, badgered one might say by his siblings, and by members of the church he once attended as to why he didn't go to church anymore, why not get "right" with the lord. My grandfather promptly replied that God isn't just in that pile of sticks and bricks. God in in us every day everywhere we go whether we have accepted him or not, God is always there ready for us to come to him, ready for us to lean on him, ready for us to cry on his shoulder, and make our way right with him.

My grandfather was very ill inthe last few years of his life. It wasn't reasonable for him to try and attend church. Also church was only once a week for a few hours. My grandfather talked with the lord everyday, and for hours on end when his time was nearing.

I don't feel the need for driving to a certain spot and sitting with other people whom I don't know waiting to be filled with God's grace, forgiveness and love. I have God's grace and forgivness and love with me at all times, like my grandfather. I never got to meet the man, but my mother tells me that we had a lot of beliefs in common.

What's wrong with going to church, not a single thing, and on the flipside there is nothing wrong with realizing that we are the houses of God, no pile of mortar and stone. Church is the people, we go out among people everyday. You don't need to go to some building to worship on a Sunday (well Saturday or whatever day your faith takes you) You can worship right now in front of the computer, on your drive to work, realxing in your tub at night, sitting on your back porch looking over a peaceful lake.
worship is between you and the Lord, you can make it as public or as private as you wish.

again just my two cents.... okay maybe it more like two dollars I get long winded sometimes.....

Excellant post !

 

[kvisions]

It's the same with anything in christianity, what is God calling us to do/who is God calling us to be? This is personal and as Church.

Nothings wrong with going to a church building or house church. I agree with flandidlyanders quote, what is God calling us to do or be as individuals.

 

[breezynosacek]

That may be what it means in English . It may have been different at the time of the writing .



Oops . Another person adopting the usual misquote thinking that it is actually in the Scriptures . Nothing wrong with that . I always find it amusing . I especially love it when a bible-thumper misquotes that passage .





I completely agree .

Also doesn't say that one *must* do so . Neither does the passage say anything about how often or how long .

Oh gee, if you wanna get a tad stuffy about it....

Matt 18:20 For wherever two or three are gathered (drawn together as My followers) in (into) My name, there I AM in the midst of them. AMP

Matt 18:20 For where two or three come together in My name, there am I with them. LAB

Matt 18:20 For where two or three are gathered together in my name, there am I in the midst of them. KJV

Matt 18:20 For where two or three have gathered together in My name, there I am in their midst. NAS

Matt 18:20 For where two or three come together in my name, there am I with them. NIV

Sorry, that's all the versions we have in the house and wouldn't have the NIV except it is part of a parallel version.


Oh, and I would rather be a Bible thumper any day than a chest thumper! I don't get out too much so I'm afraid I don't have much else to talk about except the Word.

 

[FLANDIDLYANDERS]

Dude, get a TV. Extreme makeover home edition is gr8. so is pimp my ride.

 

[New_Wineskin]

Oh gee, if you wanna get a tad stuffy about it....

Matt 18:20 For wherever two or three are gathered (drawn together as My followers) in (into) My name, there I AM in the midst of them. AMP

Matt 18:20 For where two or three come together in My name, there am I with them. LAB

Matt 18:20 For where two or three are gathered together in my name, there am I in the midst of them. KJV

Matt 18:20 For where two or three have gathered together in My name, there I am in their midst. NAS

Matt 18:20 For where two or three come together in my name, there am I with them. NIV

Sorry, that's all the versions we have in the house and wouldn't have the NIV except it is part of a parallel version.


Oh, and I would rather be a Bible thumper any day than a chest thumper! I don't get out too much so I'm afraid I don't have much else to talk about except the Word.

Stuffy ? A bible thumper worshipping a tree is stuffy . If a bible thumper saw you misquote the Lord , they would be all over you . That is why I found it amuzing .

If *I* misquoted that passage as "where three or less are gathered" , do you have any idea how much flack I would get . But , that passage is misused for the pharasees law of "go to church" , so misquoting *that* passage is perfectly fine . I personally don't care about misquotes . I brought it up to show how organized christianity has handed down a misquote of the Scriptures and few people know about it . One would think that someone spending *any* small amount of time in the Scriptures would catch that misquote . But , pharasees continually quote it incorrectly because they are not quoting the Scriptures they read but a doctrine they hear .

When I bring this up , some people usually see the misquote and excuse themselves and even laugh at it because they consider that they should have noticed it before . No big deal . Yep . every translation that I know has "two or three" .

 

[hebrew33]

The Church in Acts met in homes for sure. But they took their Bibles with them.

--Alan

Are you sure they had bibles back then? I
believe the bible came into being about 300 years later.

 

[Bevlina]

I have a question.

Fine.

I been seeing posts in this section where a poster doesn’t like other Christians pushing the idea one must go to church. OK being pushy is bad. But:

My question is: just what is wrong with going to church? Wherein lies the objection?

Did someone say there was something wrong with going to church? We go all the time!

I am sure this question will be interpreted as an attack by some, but so what! I just want to understand the rationale behind the home church idea.

It's quite easy to understand, SOME people just cannot get to a church! Some people have been hurt by churchgoers too much and are afraid of being hurt again. So, they go to a Home Church in order to have some peace, love and hear the Word of God amid love and friendship thier own way.

My personal view is that going to a church can only benefit the Christian. Plus a church is a public presence that can reach out to the community. If nothing else, it is listed in the phone book so someone looking for fellowship, counsel or salvation can simply give the church a call and find someone to talk to. I don’t this as being possible with a home fellowship group.

Don't you think we are Christians? Don't you think we can reach out to people? We have our own fellowship and councelling and give those of our Home Church a call. So ... you don't think this possible? Well, it is believe it or not!

 

[BeforeThereWas]

Did someone say there was something wrong with going to church? We go all the time!

You have that freedom if that's what you want to do. I don't think anyone was suggesting the removal of that right.

Some people have been hurt by churchgoers too much and are afraid of being hurt again. So, they go to a Home Church in order to have some peace, love and hear the Word of God amid love and friendship thier own way.

I enjoy home fellowships NOT because of the stereotype of my having been hurt before, but because I prefer an active fellowship with fellow believers as opposed to a passive fellowship with the backs of their heads. Being hurt is just part of life that we all experience at various times in life. Additionally, I will say that organized religion is not anywhere near the sum total of what it means to gather together in the name of Christ Jesus and under His Headship. Organized religion tends to surround its own agendas and forcus moreso than strictly around Christ Jesus. The same can go for home fellowships.

Don't you think we are Christians?

Some are, and some aren't. This was never the issue within this thread.

Don't you think we can reach out to people?

Sure.

We have our own fellowship and councelling and give those of our Home Church a call. So ... you don't think this possible? Well, it is believe it or not!

It is a given that most of organized religion THINKS that it experiences TRUE fellowship, which it does not, and most home fellowships THINK they experience TRUE fellowship, which they do not.

So, the REAL question is, what is fellowship to YOU? How do YOU define it? Is it coffee and doughnuts before the service? Is it cell groups (which is not synonymous with fellowship) as a band-aid to the many areas of lack within organized religion? What? Please clarify.

Thanks

BTW

 

[StormyOne]

So you are suggesting that Home churches may suffer from the same problems that the organized .org does?

 

[New_Wineskin]

So you are suggesting that Home churches may suffer from the same problems that the organized .org does?

Except for some overhead problems , they most assuredly could ( and many *do* ) have the same problems as the regular groups .

 

[BeforeThereWas]

So you are suggesting that Home churches may suffer from the same problems that the organized .org does?

Nope. I'm saying that there are similarities because of human nature, but they are not exactly alike in ALL their problems. Institutionalism has its own inherent problems, just as home fellowships have theirs.

Does that clarify better?

BTW

 

[SNPete]

[/size][/font]
Fine.





Did someone say there was something wrong with going to church? We go all the time!





It's quite easy to understand, SOME people just cannot get to a church! Some people have been hurt by churchgoers too much and are afraid of being hurt again. So, they go to a Home Church in order to have some peace, love and hear the Word of God amid love and friendship thier own way.




Don't you think we are Christians? Don't you think we can reach out to people? We have our own fellowship and councelling and give those of our Home Church a call. So ... you don't think this possible? Well, it is believe it or not!

I was amazed that my simple question resulted in such a long lasting thread.



I am saddened that your post is so hostile. If your home church is doing all that you say that is good. My OP was meant to get the isolationists of the Body to see their error. Be part of a local fellowship/church and don't hide or rejoice in your hurts, but let God heal you and be part of the solution instead of an agent of division. Where is it written that we should be isolated? An eye by itself is usless.

 

[FLANDIDLYANDERS]

Be part of a local fellowship/church and don't hide or rejoice in your hurts, but let God heal you and be part of the solution instead of an agent of division. Where is it written that we should be isolated? An eye by itself is usless.

While I totally understand your view here, it must be understood that *church* and *fellowship* can and do exist outside of Christianity,even for Christians!

I am not advocating Religion or even other faiths (necisarily) but I am concenred that *church* is so preoccupied with itself and its fellowshipping and worshipping that we allforgot to follow Jesus into the world.

We are asked to be in the World, the World is just as in need of *fellowship* and *worship* asweare, and just as able to contribute to our lives as we are to them... but this canonly be done thru relationship. For some of us, this we call *church*.

The OP seems to have failed to grasp this.

Do correct me if you disagree, old bean!