Starting today August 7th, 2024, in order to post in the Married Couples, Courting Couples, or Singles forums, you will not be allowed to post if you have your Marital status designated as private. Announcements will be made in the respective forums as well but please note that if yours is currently listed as Private, you will need to submit a ticket in the Support Area to have yours changed.
And the meaning in Romans 11:2 is the same meaning as is used throughout the NT, God's decree that Israel would be his people, just as he decreed that his people would come through Jacob only (Romans 9:11).Its the same word as used in Romans 11:2:
Romans 11:2 God has not cast away His people whom He foreknew. Or do you not know what the Scripture says of Elijah, how he pleads with God against Israel, saying,
That is right, some of what you are saying, it's your application you are assuming that is misplaced, like the scripture says, whosoever calls on the name of the Lord will be saved, He knew who they all would be and so can anyone who reads the words, whosoever calls will be saved, your view is that you read into it your view of limited atonement only to those with your view of scripture which does not include whosoever meaning whosoever. Its only those who He predestined, not that He predestined whomsoever will! He did predestine John 1:12 to as many as receive Him to them gave He the power to become the children of God. And of course, He also knew who would. But you believe like this, so to speak, John P Q will receive Him and be saved, not who so ever believes will be saved. But the verse says faith has to be applied, you say those that will be saved have been preprogrammed to believe so that they can fulfill the place of the whosoever. Your view makes it like a movie script where all born, play their parts because that is the way it was foreknown and predestined to happen. You can probably tell, I don't believe that is the way it was intended. No sense going round about on this topic again, have a great day.It is the Holy Spirit that brings the convicting power when the word of God is heard.
The power in the word of God is the Holy Spirit. . .at work.
The word of God is the means of convicting by the Holy Spirit.
God "learns" nothing. . .he has decreed the end from the beginning (Isaiah 48:3).
Those decrees, which determine outcomes, are his foreknowledge. . .of what he has decreed shall happen, not of anything that happens apart from him, for nothing happens apart from his decrees and their outcomes.
Keeping in mind, the meaning of foreknowledge as used in the NT is what Scripture shows it to be; i.e., Isaiah 48:3.
Just a small point, but, how does salvation being 'universally available' destroy Calvinism? Does availability (a human concept) mean actual? I mean, certainly you don't claim that Jesus actually paid for the sins that some of the sinners ended up paying for themselves! Right?Clare is resisting my destruction of Calvinist doctrine by my proof that salvation is universally available. She is intelligent and understands the ramifications for Calvins.
"Whosoever" is a favorite Arminian-leaner's word, which they use to infer randomness. It means no such thing! ALL it means is 'whoever', or more starkly, "those who" call on the name of the Lord. In John 3:16 it is the same: Those who believe in him shall not perish.That is right, some of what you are saying, it's your application you are assuming that is misplaced, like the scripture says, whosoever calls on the name of the Lord will be saved, He knew who they all would be and so can anyone who reads the words, whosoever calls will be saved, your view is that you read into it your view of limited atonement only to those with your view of scripture which does not include whosoever meaning whosoever. Its only those who He predestined, not that He predestined whomsoever will! He did predestine John 1:12 to as many as receive Him to them gave He the power to become the children of God. And of course, He also knew who would. But you believe like this, so to speak, John P Q will receive Him and be saved, not who so ever believes will be saved. But the verse says faith has to be applied, you say those that will be saved have been preprogrammed to believe so that they can fulfill the place of the whosoever. Your view makes it like a movie script where all born, play their parts because that is the way it was foreknown and predestined to happen. You can probably tell, I don't believe that is the way it was intended. No sense going round about on this topic again, have a great day.
Could we do specifics, rather than generalizations?That is right, some of what you are saying, it's your application you are assuming that is misplaced, like the scripture says, whosoever calls on the name of the Lord will be saved, He knew who they all would be and so can anyone who reads the words, whosoever calls will be saved, your view is that you read into it your view of limited atonement only to those with your view of scripture which does not include whosoever meaning whosoever.
I remember going over John 3:16 with you over a year ago and I remember you talking about "whosoever" as you are doing now. I don't think I said it then, but I have always thought that "whosoever" was just an old English way of saying "whoever". "Whosoever" just sounds more poetic especially when Billy Graham proclaimed it in a packed stadium.What is humorous to me is that the go-round between you and, I think, @John Mullally (?) I took you to be agreeing with him, in that your verses and his agreed, because all the verses he used for that time were (to my thinking) entirely Calvinistic, though he took them otherwise! I think I even rated one of your posts "winner", in part because I thought you were defending the Calvinist position and you were dead on right! But now I'm thinking you actually think those passages support Arminianism?!!! The irony is sizzling!
Just a small point, but, how does salvation being 'universally available' destroy Calvinism? Does availability (a human concept) mean actual? I mean, certainly you don't claim that Jesus actually paid for the sins that some of the sinners ended up paying for themselves! Right?
See, here is the thing: We humans have this self-centered view, where salvation is a commodity that we can take or leave as we wish. We want to think God is kind enough to offer it to whomever, but what God sees is those at enmity with him, to whom he commands repentance, but who are not going to repent. It is not about us, but about God.
There are many Calvinists who claim 'sufficiency' of Christ's sacrifice, but not 'efficiency'. Can you live with that? Or is it more than that, since you want Calvinism destroyed.
"Whosoever" is a favorite Arminian-leaner's word, which they use to infer randomness. It means no such thing! ALL it means is 'whoever', or more starkly, "those who" call on the name of the Lord. In John 3:16 it is the same: Those who believe in him shall not perish.
What is humorous to me is that the go-round between you and, I think, @John Mullally (?) I took you to be agreeing with him, in that your verses and his agreed, because all the verses he used for that time were (to my thinking) entirely Calvinistic, though he took them otherwise! I think I even rated one of your posts "winner", in part because I thought you were defending the Calvinist position and you were dead on right! But now I'm thinking you actually think those passages support Arminianism?!!! The irony is sizzling!
And spiritually dead--complete inability to do anything spiritually, is what Jesus and Paul are presenting in John 3:3-8; Romans 8:7-8; 1 Corinthians 2:14.
The dead don't reach out and grab the life preserver of the gospel.
That is NT teaching.
Assertion wins! Well done! I wish I had thought of making an assertion!All passages support Arminianism.
WHAT is just a figure of speech? "Destroy"? Or "die for the world"? Calvinism at least allows the proposition we use as intent, as provision, as all sorts of things —'for'— even in English doesn't always mean the same thing.Just a figure of speech. A Calvinist cannot believe Jesus died for the world, not just the elect. And no I don't expect Calvinism to die out until the tribulation sweeps it away.
WHAT is just a figure of speech? "Destroy"? Or "die for the world"? Calvinism at least allows the proposition we use as intent, as provision, as all sorts of things —'for'— even in English doesn't always mean the same thing.
Christ's death accomplished quite a lot of things, not the least of which is relief from sin's 'authority', or the horror of its corrupting effect over this universe. It restored all things to God. Colossians 1:20; Romans 8:21 and others
@RickReads @zoidar @John Mullally @iwbswiaihl @misput @Der Alte @Jesus is YHWH @Clare73 @Cormack @Hmm @d taylor @ByTheSpirit @Michael Collum @2PhiloVoid @TedT @Watchman1 @com7fy8 @NotreDame @public hermit
For the accusation that Reformed Theology is, at the least, impractical, here is a relevant thread. You will probably find well-meaning Christians trying to reassure this poor fellow, who, had he been taught the Gospel that is entirely of Grace, would understand that his eternal destiny does not hinge on the integrity of his decision, but entirely on God's decision.
Am I still blind? | Christian Forums
@RickReads @zoidar @John Mullally @iwbswiaihl @misput @Der Alte @Jesus is YHWH @Clare73 @Cormack @Hmm @d taylor @ByTheSpirit @Michael Collum @2PhiloVoid @TedT @Watchman1 @com7fy8 @NotreDame @public hermit
For the accusation that Reformed Theology is, at the least, impractical, here is a relevant thread. You will probably find well-meaning Christians trying to reassure this poor fellow, who, had he been taught the Gospel that is entirely of Grace, would understand that his eternal destiny does not hinge on the integrity of his decision, but entirely on God's decision.
Am I still blind? | Christian Forums
SALVATION is surely of, by and through the Lord. But there is human responsibility to seek and serve Him with all of our heart, mind and soul. If that desire is not there I would not try assuring anyone they are saved. No fruit, not root.@RickReads @zoidar @John Mullally @iwbswiaihl @misput @Der Alte @Jesus is YHWH @Clare73 @Cormack @Hmm @d taylor @ByTheSpirit @Michael Collum @2PhiloVoid @TedT @Watchman1 @com7fy8 @NotreDame @public hermit
For the accusation that Reformed Theology is, at the least, impractical, here is a relevant thread. You will probably find well-meaning Christians trying to reassure this poor fellow, who, had he been taught the Gospel that is entirely of Grace, would understand that his eternal destiny does not hinge on the integrity of his decision, but entirely on God's decision.
Am I still blind? | Christian Forums
Is this (that I've bolded above) an educated guess, or a preference, or do you have some hermeneutical or otherwise doctrinal basis for saying so, or what?"Spiritually dead" really just means you will die in your sins. It has nothing to do with your ability to respond. But it's not an expression of the Bible. There is "dead in your sins" in Ephesians 2:1.
@RickReads @zoidar @John Mullally @iwbswiaihl @misput @Der Alte @Jesus is YHWH @Clare73 @Cormack @Hmm @d taylor @ByTheSpirit @Michael Collum @2PhiloVoid @TedT @Watchman1 @com7fy8 @NotreDame @public hermit
For the accusation that Reformed Theology is, at the least, impractical, here is a relevant thread. You will probably find well-meaning Christians trying to reassure this poor fellow, who, had he been taught the Gospel that is entirely of Grace, would understand that his eternal destiny does not hinge on the integrity of his decision, but entirely on God's decision.
Am I still blind? | Christian Forums
Is this (that I've bolded above) an educated guess, or a preference, or do you have some hermeneutical or otherwise doctrinal basis for saying so, or what?
We use cookies and similar technologies for the following purposes:
Do you accept cookies and these technologies?
We use cookies and similar technologies for the following purposes:
Do you accept cookies and these technologies?