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So then why would you think Paul’s conversion is the norm ?Do we find that phenomenon throughout the NT at rebirth, or only in the beginning as a witness to the gospel?
No, I did not, and still do not.
Are you sure about that?To be honest with you but not meaning to be disrespectful most of your answer seem to simply states what you believe; like when you said: If I had to locate the time of the jailer's rebirth, I would locate it with that earthquake by the power of God, which power at the same time operated in his spirit, "shivering his timbers." That is not what the scripture actually said though, is it? I posted what the verses actually said, and when we get to the split in road, so to speak, I will go my way and you take your way. And when passing from this life to the heavenly home, we may meet there some day.
Paul's conversion is not the "norm" in that not everyone is knocked off his horse.So then why would you think Paul’s conversion is the norm ?
All the disciples spoke in tongues with their new birth at Pentecost which was the norm .
Paul says he spoke in tongues .So Paul was not truly converted because he did not speak in tongues?
Are you sure about that conclusion?
Are we talking about "norms," or are we talking about spiritual reality and truth?
Not in the account of his conversion, to which I was referring.Paul says he spoke in tongues .
“ I thank my God I speak with tongues more than ye all” — I Corinthians 14:18.
And it’s not the norm in Christendom. It’s the exception not the ruleNot in the account of his conversion, to which I was referring.
Did you not say it was the norm in post #861?And it’s not the norm in Christendom. It’s the exception not the rule
hope this helps !!!
Paul’s conversion was not the normDid you not say it was the norm in post #861?
Good to see we agree on that.
Those two references describe the state of people as the result of Adam's disobedience. The parable of the sower refers to the four responses to hearing and receiving the Gospel of Christ.Is that the sense of apostolic teaching in 1 Corinthians 2:14 or Romans 8:7-8 regarding the unregenerate--those who do not have the Holy Spirit?
You are twisting the Scripture to try and merge two different references to mean the same thing. It seems that you are determined to make the parable of the sower mean the same as 1 Corinthians 2:14.Does Jesus' interpretation disagree with 1 Corinthians 2:14? Yes or no?
It's not different, it's more fully revealed in apostolic teaching.
Scripture is not different from (against) itself, Scripture is in harmony with itself.
Yes, but what he was talking about by saying tongues was different languages. That is all it means in the scriptures, just like in Acts when the Holy Spirit was given: 2 When the Day of Pentecost had fully come, they were all with one accord in one place. 2 And suddenly there came a sound from heaven, as of a rushing mighty wind, and it filled the whole house where they were sitting. 3 Then there appeared to them divided tongues, as of fire, and one sat upon each of them. 4 And they were all filled with the Holy Spirit and began to speak with other tongues, as the Spirit gave them utterance. 5 And there were dwelling in Jerusalem Jews, devout men, from every nation under heaven. 6 And when this sound occurred, the multitude came together, and were confused, because everyone heard them speak in his own language. 7 Then they were all amazed and marveled, saying to one another, “Look, are not all these who speak Galileans? 8 And how is it that we hear, each in our own language in which we were born? 9 Parthians and Medes and Elamites, those dwelling in Mesopotamia, Judea and Cappadocia, Pontus and Asia, 10 Phrygia and Pamphylia, Egypt and the parts of Libya adjoining Cyrene, visitors from Rome, both Jews and proselytes, 11 Cretans and Arabs—we hear them speaking in our own tongues the wonderful works of God.” 12 So they were all amazed and perplexed, saying to one another, “Whatever could this mean?” v8 we hear, each in our own language, that is what would have meant also, he spoke many different language to those he witness to, whether learned or by a gift from the Lord, not just an unknown utterance, that is why one is to silent if there is no interpreter.Paul says he spoke in tongues .
“ I thank my God I speak with tongues more than ye all” — I Corinthians 14:18.
I probably could be accused of the same thing. I state my opinion; but it is Grounded...Are you sure about that?
I believe what the NT Scriptures teach:
1 Corinthians 2:14 teaches the impossibility of receiving the things of God in the gospel apart from the Holy Spirit.
Romans 8:7-8 teaches the impossibility of the sinful mind without the Holy Spirit to submit to God.
John 14:17 teaches the impossibility of unregenerate man accepting the Holy Spirit.
Matthew 20:13-15 teaches an absolute sovereignty in the dispensing of mercy by God.
John 3:7-8 teaches an absolutely sovereign rebirth by the choice and will of God (the meaning of "sovereign").
Acts 9:3-8 describes such an event of rebirth with the apostle Paul, where no speaking in tongues is mentioned.
Acts 16:25-30 presents another such event accompanied with another such conversion, again no speaking in tongues is mentioned.
And we see it still going on today, in the testimony of believers witnessing to the power of God acting in their rebirth and conviction, to which those who knew them can testify.
Have I presented anything inconsistent with NT teaching above?
Am I believing the wrong thing?
This is an example of eisegesis - reading much more into the text than what is actually there. When proper exegesis is applied to the Parable of the Sower, we see that it is just a simple explanation of the four different ways the preaching of the kingdom is received and the resulting outcomes. Eisegesis happens when Calvinist theology is shoehorned into the text to twist and complicate it and to make it mean more than what Jesus intended it.Amen...
And if the Good Soil wasn't Regenerated, the Gospel Seed would fail, right? As it did on the other Soils...
Turning Swords into Plowshares ~ by Reverend RV
Isaiah 2:4 KJV; And he shall judge among the nations, and shall rebuke many people: and they shall beat their swords into plowshares, and their spears into pruninghooks: nation shall not lift up sword against nation, neither shall they learn war any more.
Jesus said ‘Blessed are the meek, For they shall inherit the earth; Blessed are the peacemakers, for they shall be called sons of God.’ ~ Spiritually speaking, no one begins in life as a peacemaker, but instead we begin as enemies of God. The Bible says that Stealing, Lying, and Cursing with God’s name are all Sin; and they’re only the tip of the Iceberg. Jesus also said ‘He who is not with Me is against Me, and he who does not gather with Me scatters’; so there is no neutrality. When one decides to repent and follow Jesus, they are no longer enemies of God. Former enemies know the way of weapons, but when they no longer need them; they can put a weapon to a better use…
Jesus said ‘Go into all the world and preach the Gospel to every creature.’ There are times when Christians obey this, but it seems they can’t get through to some people. Jesus compares the heart of these people to hard, trodden ground; ‘When anyone hears the Message about the Kingdom and doesn’t understand it, the evil one comes and snatches away what was sown in his heart. This is the Seed sown along the path.’ This is when the ground of your heart needs to be tilled. ~ The Prophet Ezekiel describes it like this; ‘I will give you a New Heart and put a New Spirit in you; I will remove from you your heart of stone and give you a Heart of flesh.’ God makes the ground of your heart good and then compares it to tilled soil. God uses the Law of God to penetrate your heart, Paul describes it like this; ‘For the word of God is living and active. Sharper than any double-edged sword, it penetrates even to dividing soul and spirit, joints and marrow; it judges the thoughts and attitudes of the heart.’ ~ A follower of Christ will lay down his carnal sword and pick up the ‘Sword which is the Word of God’; and use it as a plowshare to break ground in your rock hard heart…
This is what Saint Peter did at the first Christian Pentecost. By the power of God’s Holy Spirit, Peter rose and preached to the crowds. Everyone present knew of how God had been working the last few years in the land of Israel, and SURELY there were large crowds assembled to see if it would continue. There were people who would had seen the Miracles of Christ; giving sight to the blind, feeding the thousands and raising the dead. There would have been people there who saw the darkness the day Christ was Crucified, and when they heard Peter quote the prophecy of Joel, they would have known the darkness was predicted long ago. There would have been people who told Pontius Pilate to Crucify Jesus, and when Peter proclaimed this, ‘They were cut to the Heart’. Peter turned the Sword he used to cut off a guard's ear into a Plowshare, and turn the Spear that pierced Christ's heart into a pruning Hook; reaping a harvest that day of three thousand people!
You have reason to worry today if you have not turned to Jesus Christ as your Savior. Moses said, ‘But when Pharaoh saw that there was relief, he hardened his heart and did not heed them, as the LORD had said.’ You are the one who trods down the path which is your heart, making it harder! We’re Saved by Grace through Faith in the risen Savior Jesus Christ, not by Works lest we boast. Repent of your Sins, Confess Jesus Christ as your Lord God; read your Bible and go to Church. ~ Eternal life will now be able to grow in the circumcision which the Bible has cut into your Heart…
John 5:24 ESV; Truly, truly, I say to you, whoever hears my word and believes him who sent me has eternal life. He does not come into judgment, but has passed from death to life.
That still does not mean that what I posted was not right in context of what Paul said in Acts 16 if so point out where I made a mistake in my reply. You bring up different context, to be true the context must be answered and show where something was stated that was wrong. At least, that would be my understanding, nothing in Acts 16 was the same as your points you now are making, we need to stay in context of the post, and to be truth, all the happening still have to agree in principle, don't they?Are you sure about that?
I believe what the NT Scriptures teach:
1 Corinthians 2:14 teaches the impossibility of receiving the things of God in the gospel apart from the Holy Spirit. What in Acts 16 that I posted contradicted this statement you make here, I copied the text from the bible.
Romans 8:7-8 teaches the impossibility of the sinful mind without the Holy Spirit to submit to God.
John 14:17 teaches the impossibility of unregenerate man accepting the Holy Spirit.
Did the text I post state anything that contradicted your verses here, I copied the text, and so on down the line of your post here, what did I copy from the text that was not in the bible?
Matthew 20:13-15 teaches an absolute sovereignty in the dispensing of mercy by God.
John 3:7-8 teaches an absolutely sovereign rebirth by the choice and will of God (the meaning of "sovereign").
Acts 9:3-8 describes such an event of rebirth with the apostle Paul, where no speaking in tongues is mentioned.
Acts 16:25-30 presents another such event accompanied with another such conversion, again no speaking in tongues is mentioned.
And we see it still going on today, in the testimony of believers witnessing to the power of God acting in their rebirth and conviction, to which those who knew them can testify.
Have I presented anything inconsistent with NT teaching above?
Am I believing the wrong thing?
I wouldn't say it's Eisegesis to say that when a Farmer prepares the Soil, he does this by Plowing it. It is often said that Christ spoke to an Agrarian Society in a way they could understand. I think it's actually Exegesis to say the Soil is Good because of the Tilling. Perhaps you are right though. Maybe the Good Soil was Prepared by the Farmer when he Limed it? I think it's safe to say that the Farmer is God, despite the Passage not saying he is God. An Exegesis can go too far and thwart Good Theology...This is an example of eisegesis - reading much more into the text than what is actually there. When proper exegesis is applied to the Parable of the Sower, we see that it is just a simple explanation of the four different ways the preaching of the kingdom is received and the resulting outcomes. Eisegesis happens when Calvinist theology is shoehorned into the text to twist and complicate it and to make it mean more than what Jesus intended it.
The text doesn't say that. Jesus did not include it in His interpretation to the disciples.I wouldn't say it's Eisegesis to say that when a Farmer prepares the Soil, he does this by Plowing it. It is often said that Christ spoke to an Agrarian Society in a way they could understand. I think it's actually Exegesis to say the Soil is Good because of the Tilling. Perhaps you are right though. Maybe the Good Soil was Prepared by the Farmer when he Limed it? I think it's safe to say that the
Do you not think responses to the gospel are determined by our state (nature) of being born of Adam?Those two references describe the state of people as the result of Adam's disobedience. The parable of the sower refers to the four responses to hearing and receiving the Gospel of Christ.
Fair enough...The text doesn't say that. Jesus did not include it in His interpretation to the disciples.
A more suitable reference to reflect what you are saying is Hosea 10:12:
"Sow to yourselves in righteousness, reap in mercy, break up your fallow ground; for it is time to seek the Lord, till He come and rain righteousness upon you."
Maybe it's because both of them treat of the same human nature being demonstrated; i.e., its inability to lay hold of (apprehend) the things of God without the rebirth.You are twisting the Scripture to try and merge two different references to mean the same thing. It seems that you are determined to make the parable of the sower mean the same as 1 Corinthians 2:14.
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