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That is not the true sense of the parable. It is what you are reading into it. What you are saying is not necessarily wrong, but you can't use that parable as the foundation for saying it. Have you read Jesus' own interpretation of the parable?According to NT apostolic teaching, the unregenerate heart, which is "without Holy Spirit does not accept the things that come from the Spirit of God, for he cannot understand them, and they are foolishness to him," (1 Corinthians 2:14) and he wants no part of foolishness.
There is no seeding of an unregenerate heart because it has no Holy Spirit, which is what the parable shows.
That is not the true sense of the parable. It is what you are reading into it. What you are saying is not necessarily wrong, but you can't use that parable as the foundation for saying it. Have you read Jesus' own interpretation of the parable?
Does it contradict 1 Corinthians 2:14?That is not the true sense of the parable. It is what you are reading into it. What you are saying is not necessarily wrong, but you can't use that parable as the foundation for saying it.
Have you read Jesus' own interpretation of the parable?
Here is Jesus' interpretation:Does it contradict 1 Corinthians 2:14?
Remember, he is preaching and teaching under and according to the old covenant.
According to NT apostolic teaching, the unregenerate heart, which is "without Holy Spirit does not accept the things that come from the Spirit of God, for he cannot understand them, and they are foolishness to him," (1 Corinthians 2:14) and he wants no part of foolishness.
There is no seeding of an unregenerate heart because it has no Holy Spirit, which is what the parable shows.
Amen...Alrighty then. I`ll try it like this.
Matt 13
18 Hear ye therefore the parable of the sower.
19 When any one heareth the word of the kingdom, and understandeth it not, then cometh the wicked one, and catcheth away that which was sown in his heart. This is he which received seed by the way side.
20 But he that received the seed into stony places, the same is he that heareth the word, and anon with joy receiveth it;
21 Yet hath he not root in himself, but dureth for a while: for when tribulation or persecution ariseth because of the word, by and by he is offended.
22 He also that received seed among the thorns is he that heareth the word; and the care of this world, and the deceitfulness of riches, choke the word, and he becometh unfruitful.
23 But he that received seed into the good ground is he that heareth the word, and understandeth it; which also beareth fruit, and bringeth forth, some an hundredfold, some sixty, some thirty.
Here we see that the seed of saving faith is the gospel/word. This is the point where it all begins. Before being seeded we are in a state of depravity. Salvation is not possible if we have not been seeded. Can't happen. Triple negative.
I have seen some very physical expressions of faith where people were "slain" in the spirit and hit the floor. People running around the church and all kinds of hysterics. It's a way people express their faith and there is nothing wrong with that. It's just not my style. I'm more into somber prayer/meditation/reflection which many people find boring and not truly expressive of the joy they feel in Christ.Not funny
Is that the sense of apostolic teaching in 1 Corinthians 2:14 or Romans 8:7-8 regarding the unregenerate--those who do not have the Holy Spirit?This is not the sense of the parable. The good ground is the right environment which can receive the Gospel and for it to grow and bear fruit. The stony place is where the ground is shallow, speaking of easy believerism without any depth and as soon as problems or persecution comes, there is not enough depth for the Gospel to take root and bear fruit, so the person goes back into the world. The hard path where the birds arrived and take the seed before it can take root are the ones who are presented with the Gospel but immediately reject it.
We are all unregenerate until presented with the Gospel. The three types of ground where the seed of the Gospel falls are the types of people to whom the Gospel comes. The "hard path" people who reject the Gospel remain in their sins. The shallow ones are the ones to "get religion" but don't go on to become fully converted to Christ. The good ground are the ones to joyfully accept the Gospel, repent of the sins, allow the Holy Spirit to fully convert them to Christ and so go on to become fully established and bear fruit.
Is that the sense of apostolic teaching in 1 Corinthians 2:14 or Romans 7:7-8 regarding the unregenerate--those who do not have the Holy Spirit?
Are you sure about that? . . .I take that to mean you disagree.The irony is way too funny.
Does Jesus' interpretation disagree with 1 Corinthians 2:14? Yes or no?Here is Jesus' interpretation:
"18 “Listen then to what the parable of the sower means: 19 When anyone hears the message about the kingdom and does not understand it, the evil one comes and snatches away what was sown in their heart. This is the seed sown along the path. 20 The seed falling on rocky ground refers to someone who hears the word and at once receives it with joy. 21 But since they have no root, they last only a short time. When trouble or persecution comes because of the word, they quickly fall away. 22 The seed falling among the thorns refers to someone who hears the word, but the worries of this life and the deceitfulness of wealth choke the word, making it unfruitful. 23 But the seed falling on good soil refers to someone who hears the word and understands it. This is the one who produces a crop, yielding a hundred, sixty or thirty times what was sown.”
It looks quite clear that this can equally apply to modern people who hear the Gospel as it did to those hearing the preaching of the kingdom in Jesus' day.
It's not different, it's more fully revealed in apostolic teaching.You can't make the parable and meaning to say different to what is actually said in the text.
Are you sure about that? . . .I take that to mean you disagree.
An example of to what I am referring is seen in Matthew 19:16-21, the rich young man who asked Jesus what he must do to get eternal life. Did Jesus give the new covenant answer: believe in and trust on me and my atoning sacrifice for the remission of your sin? He did not.
He gave the old covenant answer: obey the law (vv. 18-19), because that was required by God for eternal life at that time.
And when the fulfillment of that answer was declared by the rich young man, Jesus said the only thing that could be said under the old covenant, "Come, follow me," which would take him into the new covenant answer revealed after the resurrection--faith in him and his atoning sacrifice (Romans 3:25).
Jesus' teaching was in the light of the old covenant, because he and they were still under the old covenant (whose purpose was to lead to the new covenant--Galatians 3:24), and the new covenant had not yet been revealed when the rich young man came to him.
Back at cha'. . .
Correct. . .TYPO. . .that should be Romans 8:7-8.Romans 7 is about the struggle a believer has with the sin issue. I believe it also has a multi-application (as scriptures often do) to a sinner with a guilty conscience but this is a way of thinking about scriptures that you condemn.
Falls somewhat short of a Biblical demonstration of my Biblical error.I think it is entirely hypocritical of you to rail against my Christianity for using Jesus's own term for His message and then turn around and say oh but Jesus taught under the Old Covenant to somebody else.
That is just pathetic as well as ironic.
Amen...
And if the Good Soil wasn't Regenerated, the Gospel Seed would fail, right? As it did on the other Soils...
I understand, and thanks. . .but human reasoning does not trump the divine revelation of the Scriptures in Matthew 19:16-21, which you do not address.It was an attempt to get you to see some common sense reasoning.
One more time: What you are saying is true but what I am saying is for all this renewal and regeneration to be a renewal and regeneration indicates at some point in the past we had these attributes and lost them along the road of life. This is for me, more evidence the doctrine of original sin (Calvinism) is a false doctrine.My point is that renewal in the Holy Spirit can only occur after regeneration/salvation/circumcision of heart/baptism in the holy spirit/Jesus through the door.
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