What is wrong with Calvinism ?

[Clare73]

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[RickReads]

Okay...

I would start by saying the Unchosen are made from the same Fallen Lump of Clay that you are made from. They are as equally Fallen as I was. Clare deserves the same Fate that they deserve. I would say there is nothing remarkable about the Clay at all; Chosen or Unchosen...

You will find that I will most likely never say something you will disagree with. What do you think about the Unchosen?

I.....just really want to introduce you to Cormack. LOL!

This issue is of two major issues I have with Calvinism. At first glance, Clare would seem to prove your point.

But you are essentially saying that God is random in choosing who He will save and who He will punish. There is no accounting for Gods foreknowledge and for that reason I believe you are wrong.

 

[RickReads]

Okay...

I would start by saying the Unchosen are made from the same Fallen Lump of Clay that you are made from. They are as equally Fallen as I was. Clare deserves the same Fate that they deserve. I would say there is nothing remarkable about the Clay at all; Chosen or Unchosen...

You will find that I will most likely never say something you will disagree with. What do you think about the Unchosen?

See post 422 again. I think you read it before I was finished with it.

 

[RickReads]

Okay...

I would start by saying the Unchosen are made from the same Fallen Lump of Clay that you are made from. They are as equally Fallen as I was. Clare deserves the same Fate that they deserve. I would say there is nothing remarkable about the Clay at all; Chosen or Unchosen...

You will find that I will most likely never say something you will disagree with. What do you think about the Unchosen?

See post 422 again. I think you read it before I was finished with it.

 

[ReverendRV]

I.....just really want to introduce you to Cormack. LOL!

This issue is of two major issues I have with Calvinism. At first glance, Clare would seem to prove your point.

But you are essentially saying that God is random in choosing who He will save and who He will punish. There is no accounting for Gods foreknowledge and for that reason I believe you are wrong.

I don't mean to sound as if I teach that God's choice is random; please Forgive me. I've said elsewhere that God had Pity on the likes of Cormack...

Let me Paste that Gospel Tract...

 

[RickReads]

I don't mean to sound as if I teach that God's choice is random; please Forgive me. I've said elsewhere that God had Pity on the likes of Cormack...

Let me Paste that Gospel Tract...

If that is the case this would be the first time I`ve had discussion with a Calvinist who agreed with me that God isn't random.

 

[ReverendRV]

I.....just really want to introduce you to Cormack. LOL!

This issue is of two major issues I have with Calvinism. At first glance, Clare would seem to prove your point.

But you are essentially saying that God is random in choosing who He will save and who He will punish. There is no accounting for Gods foreknowledge and for that reason I believe you are wrong.

This Gospel Tract is unedited...

Pity - by ReverendRV

Ezekiel 16:4-5; On the day you were born your cord was not cut, nor were you washed with water to make you clean, nor were you rubbed with salt or wrapped in cloths. No one looked on you with pity or had compassion enough to do any of these things for you. Rather, you were thrown out into the open field, for on the day you were born you were despised.

Oh, what a terrible fate! In these ancient days it was common place for children to be abandoned straight from birth. Women and children were second class citizens of the world and there wasn’t a movement to honor them until the arrival of Christianity. Christians had many opportunities to raise orphans because of this; after all, we want to be like our great God and Father. These verses describe a time that God modeled this for us and chose a people for himself, the Jews. The Prophet Ezekiel says; “'This is what the Sovereign LORD says to Jerusalem: Your ancestry and birth were in the land of the Canaanites; your father was an Amorite and your mother a Hittite. On the day you were born your cord was not cut, nor were you washed with water to make you clean, nor were you rubbed with salt or wrapped in cloths. No one looked on you with pity or had compassion enough to do any of these things for you. Rather, you were thrown out into the open field, for on the day you were born you were despised. "And when I passed by you and saw you wallowing in your blood, I said to you in your blood, 'Live!' I said to you in your blood, 'Live!'”

Ezekiel calls the parents of the abandoned child an Amorite and a Hittite, even though the people come from Abraham and his wife Sarah; who were Chaldeans. But since people are Sinners in this world, God calls them by the name of Sinful nations. Since children want to be like their parents, the world has followed their parents in Sin. Adam and Eve Sinned by eating the fruit from a banned tree, and their first son killed their second son; Sin has abounded in the world ever since. But you say, “I can see that murder is a Sin but why is something as small as eating fruit a Sin?” Have you ever told a lie? Have you ever lusted for another person? These may seem little to nothing, like a piece of fruit, but they are breaking the Ten Commandments of God. Gods standard of Righteousness is himself and he is Infinite. Sinners are judged guilty and sent to an eternal Hell as punishment…

What we need is for someone to pass near us and have pity on us. But you ask, “Doesn’t this say that God had pity on the Jews? What about us??” The Bible says that everything that was written in the past was written for us too! For God so loved the world that he gave his only unique Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have everlasting life! We are saved by Grace through Faith and not by any Works we can do; our Works are like the polluted blood we are found lying in. Jesus is the Son of God sent into the world to be a Sinless sacrifice for all who will believe. Without the shedding of blood there is no remission of Sin. The polluted blood we are found in wasn’t shed by us, but the blood of the risen Christ cleanses us from all Sin; trust in him as your Savior and you will be saved!

Exodus 1:22, 2:3+5; So Pharaoh commanded all his people, saying, "Every son who is born you shall cast into the river, and every daughter you shall save alive." But when she could no longer hide the infant Moses, she took an ark of bulrushes for him, daubed it with asphalt and pitch, put the child in it, and laid it in the reeds by the river's bank. Then the daughter of Pharaoh came down to bathe at the river. And her maidens walked along the riverside; and when she saw the ark among the reeds, she sent her maid to get it.

 

[ReverendRV]

If that is the case this would be the first time I`ve had discussion with a Calvinist who agreed with me that God isn't random.

I am different; I'm what all Calvinists should be like...

God's Pity Elects. There was no difference between the Infant God Pitied, and any other infant God ever found cast away; and Passed Over...

 

[RickReads]

This Gospel Tract is unedited...

Pity - by ReverendRV

Ezekiel 16:4-5; On the day you were born your cord was not cut, nor were you washed with water to make you clean, nor were you rubbed with salt or wrapped in cloths. No one looked on you with pity or had compassion enough to do any of these things for you. Rather, you were thrown out into the open field, for on the day you were born you were despised.

Oh, what a terrible fate! In these ancient days it was common place for children to be abandoned straight from birth. Women and children were second class citizens of the world and there wasn’t a movement to honor them until the arrival of Christianity. Christians had many opportunities to raise orphans because of this; after all, we want to be like our great God and Father. These verses describe a time that God modeled this for us and chose a people for himself, the Jews. The Prophet Ezekiel says; “'This is what the Sovereign LORD says to Jerusalem: Your ancestry and birth were in the land of the Canaanites; your father was an Amorite and your mother a Hittite. On the day you were born your cord was not cut, nor were you washed with water to make you clean, nor were you rubbed with salt or wrapped in cloths. No one looked on you with pity or had compassion enough to do any of these things for you. Rather, you were thrown out into the open field, for on the day you were born you were despised. "And when I passed by you and saw you wallowing in your blood, I said to you in your blood, 'Live!' I said to you in your blood, 'Live!'”

Ezekiel calls the parents of the abandoned child an Amorite and a Hittite, even though the people come from Abraham and his wife Sarah; who were Chaldeans. But since people are Sinners in this world, God calls them by the name of Sinful nations. Since children want to be like their parents, the world has followed their parents in Sin. Adam and Eve Sinned by eating the fruit from a banned tree, and their first son killed their second son; Sin has abounded in the world ever since. But you say, “I can see that murder is a Sin but why is something as small as eating fruit a Sin?” Have you ever told a lie? Have you ever lusted for another person? These may seem little to nothing, like a piece of fruit, but they are breaking the Ten Commandments of God. Gods standard of Righteousness is himself and he is Infinite. Sinners are judged guilty and sent to an eternal Hell as punishment…

What we need is for someone to pass near us and have pity on us. But you ask, “Doesn’t this say that God had pity on the Jews? What about us??” The Bible says that everything that was written in the past was written for us too! For God so loved the world that he gave his only unique Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have everlasting life! We are saved by Grace through Faith and not by any Works we can do; our Works are like the polluted blood we are found lying in. Jesus is the Son of God sent into the world to be a Sinless sacrifice for all who will believe. Without the shedding of blood there is no remission of Sin. The polluted blood we are found in wasn’t shed by us, but the blood of the risen Christ cleanses us from all Sin; trust in him as your Savior and you will be saved!

Exodus 1:22, 2:3+5; So Pharaoh commanded all his people, saying, "Every son who is born you shall cast into the river, and every daughter you shall save alive." But when she could no longer hide the infant Moses, she took an ark of bulrushes for him, daubed it with asphalt and pitch, put the child in it, and laid it in the reeds by the river's bank. Then the daughter of Pharaoh came down to bathe at the river. And her maidens walked along the riverside; and when she saw the ark among the reeds, she sent her maid to get it.

I don't see anything here that addresses my issue and as an FYI I usually won't respond to pre-written pages.

 

[RickReads]

I am different; I'm what all Calvinists should be like...

God's Pity Elects...

If you differ on the issue of randomness then you aren't really a Calvinist.

 

[ReverendRV]

I don't see anything here that addresses my issue and as an FYI I usually won't respond to pre-written pages.

Okay. The Forum I come from, I am used to pasting my Gospel Tracts as a response. Maybe I can highlight the part I want you to read; or clip it...

If you don't agree that Pity Elected at least once, just know I don't teach that Unconditional Election is random...

 

[ReverendRV]

If you differ on the issue of randomness then you aren't really a Calvinist.

I disagree with that. Isn't it the 5-Points that make you a Calvinist? Paedo Baptism or Creedo Baptism don't make you a Calvinist, but Calvinists believe one or the other. Perhaps you should be more inclusive than that. Do you have a Source for that claim?

I should probably still be called a Calvinist since I agree with the 5 -Points, so what can we call me then? Maybe a Neo Calvinist. I certainly can't be called a Hyper Calvinist though. Well, Calvinist suits me if it suits you?

 

[RickReads]

Okay. The Forum I come from, I am used to pasting my Gospel Tracts as a response. Maybe I can highlight the part I want you to read; or clip it...

If you don't agree that Pity Elected at least once, just know I don't teach that Unconditional Election is random...

I don't mind reading things but not for what amounts to a debate. Too time-consuming and useless to put the time into refuting them.

On the unconditional election, if you teach that it isn't random then you have broken with Calvinism as I understand it and I have Calvinism in my background.

 

[ReverendRV]

I don't mind reading things but not for what amounts to a debate. Too time-consuming and useless to put the time into refuting them.

On the unconditional election, if you teach that it isn't random then you have broken with Calvinism as I understand it and I have Calvinism in my background.

Fair enough. I know Rome wasn't built in a day...

Are you glad I am here?

 

[RickReads]

I disagree with that. Isn't it the 5-Points that make you a Calvinist? Paedo Baptism or Creedo Baptism don't make you a Calvinist, but Calvinists believe one or the other. Perhaps you should be more inclusive than that. Do you have a Source for that claim?

It's an observation based on about 20 years of online interaction. Usually, if I start posting sources it means I`m tired of talking to somebody.

I was Calvinist in my thinking and didn't know it till I came online in my late 30s. Anyway, I do this for recreation so I just do it by memory. I post scriptures sometimes not much beyond that.

You are the first Calvin I didn't believe.was a Calvin. So I haven't tried to make a case out of it........yet.

 

[ReverendRV]

It's an observation based on about 20 years of online interaction. Usually, if I start posting sources it means I`m tired of talking to somebody.

I was Calvinist in my thinking and didn't know it till I came online in my late 30s. Anyway, I do this for recreation so I just do it by memory. I post scriptures sometimes not much beyond that.

You are the first Calvin I didn't believe.was a Calvin. So I haven't tried to make a case out of it........yet.

I think you'll like me. I like it here...

 

[RickReads]

Fair enough. I know Rome wasn't built in a day...

Are you glad I am here?

I like the way you conduct yourself. I`m burned out on getting ad hominem over theological positions.

 

[RickReads]

I like it here...

Heh, give me time.

 

[ReverendRV]

I like the way you conduct yourself. I`m burned out on getting ad hominem over theological positions.

You would hate it at CARM then...

 

[RickReads]

You would hate it at CARM then...

Well, its more about questioning the merit of giving my time to do this. I`m trying to recover from a lengthy convalescence so this is a sort of exercise for my mind.