What is wrong with Calvinism ?

[misput]

Show where I have said grace is irresistible.

Unless I have misunderstood you it is only available to those God predetermined before the world began and some never receive it.

 

[Clare73]

For the time will come when people will not put up with sound doctrine.
Instead, to suit their own desires, they will gather around them a great
number of teachers to say what their itching ears want to hear." 1 Tim 4:3​

Before salvation some who are among us took pride in their feelings of intellectual superiority over others around them. It had been the foundation for their self esteem.
Those like them who refused to be humbled after salvation, will seek to reestablish that sense of comfort in their pride once more... Doing so, in wanting and accepting false teaching that will lend itself to being brought back to the position (of the delusion) of being the superior thinker among us. Once again, to be basing their self esteem in a manner that they were once naturally comfortable with before their salvation.

It can also work for those who grew up establishing their self esteem based upon their feeling of being 'emotionally' superior to others. For there are various false teachings designed to accommodate this type as well. Emotion-driven believers is quite common to see these days. Irrationality reigns in their camp, just as much as it does in the opposite pole.

God sovereignly allowed me to say that.

He allowed a lot of psycho-babble.

 

[GenemZ]

You say it is "Calvinists" who reject the sovereignty of God stated in Romans 9:18?

You can't read?

Here is what I said.

They were thinking like hyper Calvinists! Sovereignty is everything to them, and God can not be resisted. Paul was against such thinking.

​

Where's the lie?. . .Paul doesn't call it a lie, rather he defends it, accusing them of talking back to God.

The lie was that God forced them to become the losers they had become. That they had no choice in the matter.

The potter's wheel are the pressures God puts around us to cause us to make decisions. Two people placed under the same pressures? One will choose for the good. Another under the same kind of pressures will choose for what is bad.

They could not resist being baptized by God into those pressures. But what they chose as a result of being confronted with the pressures of the Potters wheel? What they decide to do about it was of their own choice.

So God puts two people on identical potters wheels. One chooses to accept the water of God's Word to become molded according to His will. They other refuses the water of the Word, and became hard and un-moldable. To be thrown out.

You think Satan was not free to not reject God? That God created sin?

 

[Clare73]

Unless I have misunderstood you it is only available to those God predetermined before the world began and some never receive it.

Have I made such a statement?

 

[GenemZ]

He allowed a lot of psycho-babble.

Thank you, Madam speaker of the house.

 

[GenemZ]

Yes it is an avenue God provides to everyone who is willing, otherwise there would be no point to evangelism or loving others. Everything would be a farce.

It also would make God look like a maniac if he were to condemn anyone to the Lake of Fire, if they were not at some point given the grace to enable them to make a right choice.

For the grace of God has appeared that offers salvation to all people.
It teaches us to say “No” to ungodliness and worldly passions, and to
live self-controlled, upright and godly lives in this present age." Ttus 2:11-12​

grace and peace

 

[Clare73]

Here is what I said.

"They were thinking like hyper Calvinists! Sovereignty is everything to them, and God can not be resisted. Paul was against such thinking."

Thinking like "hyper Calvinists" 1500 years before Calvin was born. . .interesting.

So Paul objected to their belief in the sovereignty of God rather than their blaming their actions on the sovereignty of God. . .interesting.

The lie was that God forced them to become the losers they had become.

Paul presents no lie. . .he presents only objecting to God's sovereignty,
which objection he addresses (Who are you, O man?), and
which sovereignty he defends (in the right of the potter).

 

[Clare73]

Thank you, Madam speaker of the house.

You're welcome, Congressman. . .are you of order?

 

[misput]

Have I made such a statement?

Evasion. either admit, deny or explain please.

 

[Jesus is YHWH]

Evasion. either admit, deny or explain please.

Like a dentist pulling teeth with no pain meds lol .

 

[GenemZ]

Thinking like "hyper Calvinists" 1500 years before Calvin was born. . .interesting.

So Paul objected to their belief in the sovereignty of God rather than their blaming their actions on the sovereignty of God. . .interesting.

They were DISTORTING the concept concerning the sovereignty of God.
Paul objected to that.

We are living proof that there is nothing new under the sun.

 

[misput]

Even the Jews became hardened toward God many times and rejected Gods grace, with the excuse they were following His Law. Everyone at some point or points (like when the Gospel is proclaimed to them, even down to just their conscience and creation) is offered Gods grace and accepts or refuses it. It is not my responsibility to provide proof to you theologians, look it up yourself.

 

[GenemZ]

Like a dentist pulling teeth with no pain meds lol .

All the while the Holy Spirit pulls no punches.

What got Jesus crucified was calling out the mega deniers of his day.

He is the Word made flesh. Today, still some are driven to crucify the Word of God...

Yet, some who watched him being crucified? They later were cut to the heart and repented. So?

grace and peace........

 

[GenemZ]

You're welcome, Congressman. . .are you of order?

Better than being out of good comebacks.

 

[Jesus is YHWH]

Thinking like "hyper Calvinists" 1500 years before Calvin was born. . .interesting.

So Paul objected to their belief in the sovereignty of God rather than their blaming their actions on the sovereignty of God. . .interesting.

Paul presents no lie. . .he presents only objecting to God's sovereignty,
which objection he addresses (Who are you?), and
which sovereignty he defends (in the right of the potter).

Phil Johnson, who has done extensive research on this subject very helpfully defines hyper-Calvinists using a five-fold definition. A hyper-Calvinist is one who:

1. Denies that the gospel call applies to all who hear, OR
2. Denies that faith is the duty of every sinner, OR
3. Denies that the gospel makes any “offer” of Christ, salvation, or mercy to the non-elect (or denies that the offer of divine mercy is free and universal), OR
4. Denies that there is such a thing as “common grace,” OR
5. Denies that God has any sort of love for the non-elect.

As Phil says, “All five varieties of hyper-Calvinism undermine evangelism or twist the gospel message.” So this is the key to understanding hyper-Calvinism: it undermines evangelism and/or somehow distorts the gospel message. Hyper-Calvinists emphasize God’s sovereignty but de-emphasize God’s love. They tend to set God’s sovereignty at odds with the clear biblical call to human responsibility.

Hyper-Calvinism: A Brief Definition | Tim Challies
The term hyper-Calvinist is often used as a pejorative. Almost any Calvinist who adheres to the doctrines of grace is likely to be considered a hyper-Calvinist by at least someone. Frankly speaking, a hyper-Calvinist can be any Calvinist to a person who doesn't understand Calvinism. So today...

www.challies.com

 

[Mark Quayle]

no one becomes a calvinist without reading their dogma.

Hahahaha. As far as you know, I suppose you mean. What if I was a calvinist before I knew I was?

 

[Mark Quayle]

Unless I have misunderstood you it is only available to those God predetermined before the world began and some never receive it.

Strange you still think grace is available. That isn't what scripture shows. Salvific faith, and Irresistible Grace is GIVEN, not "available". It doesn't sound like @Clare73 's use of words.

 

[Jesus is YHWH]

Hahahaha. As far as you know, I suppose you mean. What if I was a calvinist before I knew I was?

Is that like being saved before I knew I was saved lol

 

[Clare73]

Evasion. either admit, deny or explain please.

I don't use the term "irresistible grace."
I don't use the term "predetermined."
You didn't get them from me.

It seems that Calvin understands Roman 9 the way I do, which I discovered years later.
I am not a "Calvinist."
I don't do "ism's."
I do Scripture. . .I am a Paulist.

 

[Clare73]

Here is what I said.
"They were thinking like hyper Calvinists! Sovereignty is everything to them, and God can not be resisted. Paul was against such thinking."

They were DISTORTING the concept concerning the sovereignty of God.
Paul objected to that.

Thinking like "hyper Calvinists" 1500 years before Calvin was born. . .interesting.

So Paul objected to their belief in the sovereignty of God rather than their blaming their actions on the sovereignty of God. . .interesting.

Paul presents no lie. . .he addresses no distortion,
he presents only objecting to God's sovereignty,
which objection he addresses (Who are you, O man?),
which sovereignty he defends (in the right of the potter) and
which supposed "distortion" he makes no mention.