What is Worship?

[Nathaniel Red]

I've had some trouble trying to distinguish between veneration, worship, attention, and love. The way people fall to addictions, or act in secular society, has sometimes been described as a kind of worship. Is that because worship is the same as love or attention? Have I been accidently worshipping the things and people I love by putting them above god in my life?

I have heard from some protestants the idea that because worship is the same thing as "placing above all other things", either in love, attention, or glorification, then it also means that Jesus is not only praying to the father, but worshipping the Father, or even the father worshipping the son. This feels wrong, but I'm not sure exactly how.

If someone could use good analogies to help me understand rather than just saying that worship is sacrifice and veneration honoring, that would help better.

 

[ArmyMatt]

worship in the Orthodox sense is a sacrificial offering to God (the Eucharist).

 

[BobRyan]

I've had some trouble trying to distinguish between veneration, worship, attention, and love. The way people fall to addictions, or act in secular society, has sometimes been described as a kind of worship. Is that because worship is the same as love or attention? Have I been accidently worshipping the things and people I love by putting them above god in my life?

I have heard from some protestants the idea that because worship is the same thing as "placing above all other things", either in love, attention, or glorification, then it also means that Jesus is not only praying to the father, but worshipping the Father, or even the father worshipping the son. This feels wrong, but I'm not sure exactly how.

If someone could use good analogies to help me understand rather than just saying that worship is sacrifice and veneration honoring, that would help better.

God loves God with all His heart and his neighbor as Himself. That is "the God of Love"

Ps 45:7 "Thou lovest righteousness, and hatest wickedness: therefore God, thy God, hath anointed thee with the oil of gladness above thy fellows."

Jesus came to show us what God is like according to John 1... had the Father chosen to come instead of the Son - the representation would be exactly as was seen in the case of Jesus.

Matt 10 - Jesus said the one that loves family members more than God - is not saved. The key is not in loving family less -- it is in loving God more.

Natural human love is tainted with the sinful nature - loving less is not the answer to the problem.

 

[LoveGodsWord]

What is worship?

It is not very difficult so try not to over think it. Pray to God and seek Him first through His Word. We worship God when we put Him first in our lives through believing and following what Gods' Word says through faith. Anything we put before God and His Word we make an idol from and worship. So to worship God we do so by faith and putting God first as we prayerfully seek Him through His Word *Matthew 6:33 by faith believing and following what Gods' Word says.

God bless

 

[Nathaniel Red]

worship in the Orthodox sense is a sacrificial offering to God (the Eucharist).

What about religions without sacrificial offerings? Do they not worship god, even though they say that they do?

And if worship is sacrifice, what is veneration?

 

[prodromos]

God loves God with all His heart and his neighbor as Himself. That is "the God of Love"

It is not very difficult so try not to over think it.

Just a reminder that you are in the Eastern Orthodox subforum

 

[LoveGodsWord]

Just a reminder that you are in the Eastern Orthodox subforum

Thanks for that. I popped in seeing it as a new thread. I did not know where I was to be honest. Thanks for the heads up. Did I say something that was not acceptable? I thought what I posted would be acceptable to everyone and all would be in agreement.

 

[ArmyMatt]

What about religions without sacrificial offerings? Do they not worship god, even though they say that they do?

And if worship is sacrifice, what is veneration?

technically no, at least not according to how God says He is to be worshipped.

and veneration is to show respect.

 

[Nathaniel Red]

and veneration is to show respect.

So If I show respect to my friends and loved ones, I am venerating them?

Also, is It not possible to worship Christ when praying to him at home, since I would not be taking the eucharist? So hermit saints that didn't take the eucharist never worshipped Christ? Worship and veneration under the definitions usually given doesn't seem to make consistent sense to me.

 

[ArmyMatt]

So If I show respect to my friends and loved ones, I am venerating them?

Also, is It not possible to worship Christ when praying to him at home, since I would not be taking the eucharist? So hermit saints that didn't take the eucharist never worshipped Christ? Worship and veneration under the definitions usually given doesn't seem to make consistent sense to me.

to your first question, yes you are.

to your second question, even our prayers at home are centered on our preparation for the Eucharist. even the saints in the wilderness communed.

 

[Nathaniel Red]

to your first question, yes you are.

to your second question, even our prayers at home are centered on our preparation for the Eucharist. even the saints in the wilderness communed.

I thought we were only supposed to be venerating saints? I've definitely been told that only saints, angels, and those we know are good should be venerated. Otherwise what even is the difference with saints?

And if preparing for a sacrifice counts as worship, why can't that feeling be worship without ever having the sacrifice itself?

This just seems more confusing.

 

[ArmyMatt]

I thought we were only supposed to be venerating saints? I've definitely been told that only saints, angels, and those we know are good should be venerated. Otherwise what even is the difference with saints?

well, we the saints are venerated in unique ways, but that doesn’t mean they are the only things venerated.

And if preparing for a sacrifice counts as worship, why can't that feeling be worship without ever having the sacrifice itself?

preparing for the sacrifice doesn’t count alone. but is tied into the sacrifice which will occur.

 

[ArmyMatt]

Thanks for that. I popped in seeing it as a new thread. I did not know where I was to be honest. Thanks for the heads up. Did I say something that was not acceptable? I thought what I posted would be acceptable to everyone and all would be in agreement.

you’re good. technically what you said is fine depending on how you mean it. and we have rules on here to prevent nasty debates and distracting free-for-alls.

 

[Arctangent]

Worship is a sacrificial meal. Consider the apostolic warnings against eating foods sacrificed to idols/demons. It is not simply because the sacrifice does something to the food or is a bad witness, but because eating it is a participation in the worship of that idol.

You will find the theme of eating the sacrifice all throughout the Scriptures. That is why the Eucharist is so central to the historical Christian faith. That is THE act of Christian worship.

We do also venerate God, but when that veneration is placed within the context of the Eucharist, that veneration becomes worship.

As we offer no sacrifices to any created being, we do not worship any created being, and the veneration (or honor or whatever else you may call it) that we show those other beings is never elevated to worship. I honor (venerate) my parents, but I do not offer up and eat any sacrifices to them, and so I never worship my parents. The same goes for the saints.

 

[ArmyMatt]

Worship is a sacrificial meal. Consider the apostolic warnings against eating foods sacrificed to idols/demons. It is not simply because the sacrifice does something to the food or is a bad witness, but because eating it is a participation in the worship of that idol.

You will find the theme of eating the sacrifice all throughout the Scriptures. That is why the Eucharist is so central to the historical Christian faith. That is THE act of Christian worship.

We do also venerate God, but when that veneration is placed within the context of the Eucharist, that veneration becomes worship.

As we offer no sacrifices to any created being, we do not worship any created being, and the veneration (or honor or whatever else you may call it) that we show those other beings is never elevated to worship. I honor (venerate) my parents, but I do not offer up and eat any sacrifices to them, and so I never worship my parents. The same goes for the saints.

pretty much

 

[Nathaniel Red]

well, we the saints are venerated in unique ways, but that doesn’t mean they are the only things venerated.




preparing for the sacrifice doesn’t count alone. but is tied into the sacrifice which will occur.

Father, I began reading the Philokalia recently. It says that worship is having nothing extraneous in our intellect when praying. How does this relate to sacrifice?

 

[ArmyMatt]

Father, I began reading the Philokalia recently. It says that worship is having nothing extraneous in our intellect when praying. How does this relate to sacrifice?

if the sacrifice is communing of Christ, it’s what His deified intellect does to ours.