What is True Messianic Breaking of Bread?

[Yeshua HaDerekh]

3. Another thing I forgot to mention is when Yeshua said that his three days and three nights in the earth was like Jonah, since he died at the ninth hour (2:00-3:00) and he left his body for Sheol (figuratively the heart of the earth, the righteous portion) he was not just there in the figurative heart of the earth for a short time on that Thursday but for 3 or 4 hours.

I think the KIS that defeats the Good Friday is that it voids Luke 24:1, 18-21 which shows them walking with the resurrected Lord on the first day of the week (Sunday) and they say it is the third day since "these things" happened. And those verses 18-21 show that the "these things" were the delivering up, arrest, and crucifixion. So if "these things" really happened on Good Friday, then Sunday would have been the second day since "these things" happened. They try to argue and say the word for "since" can also be translated "from," but that does not change anything, Sunday is not the third day from Friday either, it is the second day from Friday! (Saturday is the first day from Friday). And KIS point number two would probably be that their option only has Jesus in the earth for two night periods (not three as Yeshua said). And KIS point number 3 would be that their option has the Messiah being crucified on the 15th day high Sabbath which would make no sense (because they are rushing to get him off the cross before that high day Sabbath begins:

John 19:31 The Jews therefore, because it was the day of preparation, so that the bodies should not remain on the cross on the Sabbath (for that Sabbath was a high day), asked Pilate that their legs might be broken, and that they might be taken away.

So on the 14th day (which was called the preparation for the 15th day high holy Sabbath) they are rushing to get the bodies down because they could not have bodies on the cross during the Sabbath. But Rome did not care for the Jewish details, and just decided the last supper was the eating of the Passover and Christ was crucified on the 15th day high Sabbath (that always follows the 14th day of course), no worries there for them, regardless of what the scriptures say.

And on your following question I am a bit slow on some things, could you re phrase it?!
How would you answer when some (rightly) contend that such “synecdoche" was, in fact, part of ancient Jewish culture (e.g. Psalms) long before the Greek named it "sunekdokhē" or "ynecdoche" in Latin.

It is quite simple actually. Sunday was the 3rd day, the day they were walking with Yeshua (that day, Sunday Nisan 16, was the 3rd day since these things happened), Saturday (Nisan 15) was Day 2 and Day 1 (Nisan 14) was Friday, the day when "all these thing occurred". Pretty simple IMO. Also, the day of preparation is always Friday, the day before the Sabbath. That Sabbath was also a "high day" meaning a Feast day...Passover. We have Friday (before sunset) as Day 1, Saturday as Day 2 and anytime after sunset (Sunday) is day 3. Synecdoche means that any part of a day is counted as a whole.

 

[AbbaLove]

It is quite simple actually. Sunday was the 3rd day, the day they were walking with Yeshua (that day, Sunday, was the 3rd day since these things happened), Saturday was Day 2 and Day 1 was Friday, the day when "all these thing occurred". Pretty simple IMO. Also, the day of preparation is always Friday, the day before the Sabbath. That Sabbath was also a "high day" meaning a Feast day...Passover. We have Friday (before sunset) as Day 1, Saturday as Day 2 and anytime after sunset (Sunday) is day 3. *Synecdoche means that any part of a day is counted as a whole.

6th Day - *3 or 4 hours is considered the first day
7th Day - 12 hrs nighttime and 12 hrs daylight is considered the second day
1st Day - 12 hrs nighttime and a few minutes after daybreak when He arose is considered by some the *third day​

This is somewhat the *same synecdoche logic that Alex Tennent and *others use for counting the 1st day occurring on the 5th Day of the week to justify a Thursday crucifixion. This Thursday chronology then satisfies all the relevant scripture references.

... it was not so much a few minutes but almost a whole third of the 12 hour day Thursday (if we say He meant the time He was separated from His body, and in Sheol, at the ninth hour). ... So He was in the heart of the earth 3 or 4 hours Thursday, then the whole day period Friday, and then Saturday (which makes three days), and He Resurrected before the day period on Sunday. Jesus said there were 12 hours in the day, the Jews started numbering the daytime hours at 6AM. (Alex Tennent)

A Protestant and Catholic could very well contend that it makes more sense to arrive at the tomb with prepared spices 39-40 hrs later (Good Friday synecdoche scenario) after Yeshua died on the cross as compared to 39-40 hrs + 24 hrs = 63-64 hrs from the time Yeshua died on the cross. Also, no one can disprove that Nisan 14 did not occur on a Friday in both 30 AD and 33 AD which helps blooster a Good Friday belief? The millions of people believing in Good Friday based on *synecdoche gives one the edge when it comes to an established belief.

A Messianic could very well contend that not even an additional 3-4 hours, let alone a few mnutes of nighttime had elapsed during this Good Friday scenario to qualify as "night 3" (Matthew 12:40 ... "three days and three nights").

Jesus said three days and three nights. There is absolutely no way to get three days and three nights from Friday to Sunday. The chart below shows this, remember a Jewish day starts at sunset rather than midnight.

Day 1 = Friday before Sunset
night 1 = Friday sunset - Saturday sunrise
Day 2 = Saturday sunrise - Saturday sunset
Night 2 = Saturday sunset - Sunday sunrise
Day 3 = Sunday sunrise - resurrection​

* https://www.blueletterbible.org/faq/crux.cfm​

The BIGGER question might be: What difference does it really make in the BIG picture whether Yeshua, Ἰησοῦς Iēsous, Jesus was placed in the tomb on the 4th day of the week, the 5th day of the week or the 6th day of the week as long as "we" all agree that He arose on the first day of the week.

 

[Yeshua HaDerekh]

This is the same synecdoche logic that Alex Tennent uses to support a Thursday crucifixion.

6th Day - 3 or 4 hours is considered the first day
7th Day - 12 hrs nighttime and 12 hrs daylight is considered the second day
1st Day - 12 hrs nighttime and a few minutes after daybreak when He arose is considered by some the *third day​

A Protestant and Catholic could very well contend that it makes more sense to arrive at the tomb with prepared spices on the 37 hrs later (Good Friday synecdoche scenario) after Yeshua was placed in the tomb compared to 37+24=61 hrs after Yeshua lay in the tomb. Also, no one can disprove that Nisan 14 did not occur on a Friday in both 30 AD and 33 AD? The millions of people believing in Good Friday based on *synecdoche gives you the edge when it comes to an established ritual.

I don't see how. Thursday before sunset is Day 1, Friday is Day 2, Saturday is Day 3, anytime after sunset is Day 4. So Sunday is Day 4. Still getting hung up on exact hours...

 

[AbbaLove]

I don't see how. Thursday before sunset is Day 1, Friday is Day 2, Saturday is Day 3, anytime after sunset is Day 4. So Sunday is Day 4. Still getting hung up on exact hours...

The problem with an indoctrinated RITUAL whether it be Jewish, Eastern Orthodox, Roman Catholic or Protestant is that each party believes beyond a doubt that they are right and the others are wrong. They are so convinced that they may not read anything that calls into question an established ritual they believe is God/Church ordained for fear a well written article with sound reasoning may get them questioning their Church's beliefs.

For example you may choose not to read the following link as it lays out sound reasoning for a Thursday crucifixion.
https://www.blueletterbible.org/faq/crux.cfm​

 

[Yeshua HaDerekh]

The problem with an indoctrinated RITUAL whether it be Jewish, Eastern Orthodox, Roman Catholic or Protestant is that each party believes beyond a doubt that they are right and the others are wrong. They are so convinced that they may not read anything that calls into question an established ritual they believe is God/Church ordained for fear a well written article with sound reasoning may get them questioning their Church's beliefs.

For example you may choose not to read the following link as it lays out sound reasoning for a Thursday crucifixion.
https://www.blueletterbible.org/faq/crux.cfm​

It has nothing to do with any kind of indoctrination.

 

[Alex Tennent]

I therefore have no need to fit everything into the challenge you have put forth.

Daq, thank you for responding back. The reason I developed the "Template Challenge" is because after debating these points with various Christian ministers and pastors I found it became like the whack a mole game, where every time I proved a point they would jump to something else. The man who was my pastor was very strong against what I had discovered and we wrote letter after letter doing the whack a mole, until I finally developed and sent him the Template Challenge. I asked him to take five minutes and just place those 10 scriptural time keys within the template of this Jewish feast. He said he would do it, but for some strange reason he could never find the five minutes to do so. Two years later he wrote and said he was still going to get to it. It's now been about 13 years and still no response. I have found that to happen every time someone disagrees with me, they are never willing to simply overlay how they think those scriptures happened within the template of the feast. That being said let me respond to your points and see if I can understand what you are saying:

1. Are you saying the 3 days and 3 nights began when they were supposedly in a Sanhedrin dungeon having a trial?

2. You said "My answer to #2 is therefore the fourteenth, fifteenth, and sixteenth of Abib,..." (end quote) So are you saying the last supper was three days in a row? Sorry, I do not understand what you are saying.

3. And concerning when the 14th day Passover sacrifice happened that year (last supper, or following day) you say: "We are therefore far apart in understanding concerning the Passover..." (end quote) Daq I read your paragraph three times but I still cannot understand what you are saying? Can you tell me in plain English what day the nation of Israel sacrificed their Passovers that year? In other words, did Jesus eat a Passover at the last supper, or was he slain as the Passover the next day? Please be specific!

 

[Alex Tennent]

It is quite simple actually. Sunday was the 3rd day, the day they were walking with Yeshua (that day, Sunday Nisan 16, was the 3rd day since these things happened), Saturday (Nisan 15) was Day 2 and Day 1 (Nisan 14) was Friday, the day when "all these thing occurred". Pretty simple IMO.

Hello there Yeshua HaDerekh. I don't think you mean to do it but you actually made a break with logical progression of numbers there. What you should have said was "Sunday was the third days since, Saturday was therefore the 2nd day since, and Friday was the 1st day since, and Thursday was the "day these things happened" (arrest, crucifixion). You cannot change your numbering in the middle of your sentence, that is a logical break.

 

[Alex Tennent]

Also, the day of preparation is always Friday, the day before the Sabbath. That Sabbath was also a "high day" meaning a Feast day...Passover.

That is actually not correct HeDerekh. Yes, that is how Rome handed it down, and in the East the word for Friday became synonymous with preparation (since Friday is always the preparation for the Sabbath) but the Jews had several other Sabbaths that could fall on other days of the week, such as the 15th day high Sabbath that always follows the 14th day Passover, as well as the day of atonement (Yom Kippur).

 

[Alex Tennent]

I don't see how. Thursday before sunset is Day 1, Friday is Day 2, Saturday is Day 3, anytime after sunset is Day 4. So Sunday is Day 4. Still getting hung up on exact hours...

HaDerekh this definitely does get tricky. The tricky part is that for the Jews in Yeshua's day there were 12 hours in the day and 12 hours in the night. And the night always came first, beginning at sunset. So when you say Sunday is day 4 that is not true in their reckoning, because the "day" portion did not begin until 6:00am. That's when they began numbering their hours for the day. The scripture says Yeshua dies at the ninth hour, and this was 2:00-3:00. So when Yeshua says 3 days and 3 nights the portion Sunday was only a night portion (Sunday night began as Saturday/Sabbath ended, from about 6:00pm to 6:00 am). Does that help with the Jewish reckoning?

 

[Alex Tennent]

The BIGGER question might be: What difference does it really make in the BIG picture whether Yeshua, Ἰησοῦς Iēsous, Jesus was placed in the tomb on the 4th day of the week, the 5th day of the week or the 6th day of the week as long as "we" all agree that He arose on the first day of the week.

Hi there AbbaLove,
I fully agree with your point here, and at the same time I believe that truth is always important (buy the truth and sell it not). From my experience, after 20 years of research I only wanted to solve the controversy of whether the last supper was the Passover, or whether Yeshua was crucified on the exact day, by God's foreknowledge. Some might say who cares, but I felt if the scriptures were truly inspired as I believed, then Matthew, Mark, and Luke would not contradict John, as most commentators believed. But by seeking out that truth I found an even bigger truth, that since it was not the Passover, and since they were therefore eating regular daily leavened bread (as 10 scriptures show) then the Protestant ritual of Communion (with leavened bread) was not what the Messiah meant in his last supper parables.

This really set me free from seeing God as not being over what always seemed like a weird little ritual to me. Even before when I used to partake of this ritual I sometimes prayed "Lord I am sorry that I have an attitude about this, it seems like a weird little ritual, but since you want it please help me to have a better attitude about it." It was very freeing to know that this ritual was not a command of God after all (with threats of damnation if one partakes "unworthily"). So, often times one truth leads to another, and in that vein I think every little truth can be important. It is also a trick that our enemy uses, if he cannot totally corrupt something he just gets little things done, a foot in the door as it were (changing Christ's birth to the day of the SunGod, with a new focus on Satan Claus, calling the Resurrection by the name of the fertility Goddess Ashtoroth/Easter, etc). I always appreciate your posts AbbaLove.

 

[daq]

Daq, thank you for responding back. The reason I developed the "Template Challenge" is because after debating these points with various Christian ministers and pastors I found it became like the whack a mole game, where every time I proved a point they would jump to something else. The man who was my pastor was very strong against what I had discovered and we wrote letter after letter doing the whack a mole, until I finally developed and sent him the Template Challenge. I asked him to take five minutes and just place those 10 scriptural time keys within the template of this Jewish feast. He said he would do it, but for some strange reason he could never find the five minutes to do so. Two years later he wrote and said he was still going to get to it. It's now been about 13 years and still no response. I have found that to happen every time someone disagrees with me, they are never willing to simply overlay how they think those scriptures happened within the template of the feast. That being said let me respond to your points and see if I can understand what you are saying:

1. Are you saying the 3 days and 3 nights began when they were supposedly in a Sanhedrin dungeon having a trial?

2. You said "My answer to #2 is therefore the fourteenth, fifteenth, and sixteenth of Abib,..." (end quote) So are you saying the last supper was three days in a row? Sorry, I do not understand what you are saying.

3. And concerning when the 14th day Passover sacrifice happened that year (last supper, or following day) you say: "We are therefore far apart in understanding concerning the Passover..." (end quote) Daq I read your paragraph three times but I still cannot understand what you are saying? Can you tell me in plain English what day the nation of Israel sacrificed their Passovers that year? In other words, did Jesus eat a Passover at the last supper, or was he slain as the Passover the next day? Please be specific!

Hi Alex, I will attempt to address point number two from my previous post:

"2. The Last Supper."

Perhaps you might investigate the following transliterated Hebrew phrase: "bə·‘e·ṣem [`etsem] hay·yō·wm haz·zeh" which is employed ten times, (and a variation once in Leviticus 23:14). What does `etsem mean in this context? Surely the KJV rendering of "the selfsame day" is severely lacking. What if it means something more along the lines of "the body of this day"? What then is the body of the day when it comes to the Unleavened Feast of the Passover? What constitutes the full body of that day given in Exodus 12? Is the Passover one single day or is it seven days which are the body of one great day in the eyes of our Maker? Why did the ancients conflate "the Passover" with "the Feast of Unleavened Bread" making both terms essentially interchangeable? (I suggest that the above is the reason why).

My answer to #2 is therefore the fourteenth, fifteenth, and sixteenth of Abib, and the temple, (the talmidim) is fully cleansed with the washing of their feet and the end of the sixteenth of Abib, (see 2 Chronicles 29:17 for the type, and also, this cleansing in the ministry of Messiah commenced in the tenth day of Abib with the casting out of the money-changers of the powerful arms of the branches of the Ananus ben Seth family enterprise business out from the physical Temple which was also cleansed).

Concerning the phrase, bə·‘e·ṣem hay·yō·wm haz·zeh, it is found in Exodus 12:17 where its placement in the context should not be overlooked or underestimated. When the phrase is understood as "in the body of this day" it strongly implies in this context that the day spoken of concerns seven days in one greater day even though it is not called a week:

Exodus 12:13-19
13. And the blood shall be to you for a token upon the houses where you are: and when I see the blood, I will pass over you, and the plague shall not be upon you to destroy you when I smite the land of Egypt.
14. And this day shall be unto you for a memorial; and you shall keep it a feast to HaShem throughout your generations, you shall keep it a feast by an ordinance forever:
15. Seven days shall you eat matzot; moreover, the first day you shall put away leaven out of your houses, for whosoever eats anything leavened from the first day until the seventh day, that soul shall be cut off from Yisrael.
16. And in the first day [is] a mikra-kodesh holy convocation, and in the seventh day shall be a mikra-kodesh holy convocation to you; no manner of work shall be done in them, save that which every man must eat, that only may be done of you.
17. And you shall observe ha-matzot; for in the body of this day (bə·‘e·ṣem hay·yō·wm haz·zeh) I do bring your armies out of the land of Egypt: therefore shall you observe this day in your generations by an ordinance forever:
18. In the first month, on the fourteenth day of the month at evening, you shall eat matzot, until the one and twentieth day of the month at evening:
19. Seven days there shall be no leaven found in your houses; for whosoever eats that which is leavened, even that soul shall be cut off from the congregation of Yisrael, whether he be a stranger, or born in the land.

Exodus 13:6
6. Seven days you shalt eat matzot; and in the seventh day [is] a feast to HaShem.

In the first day is a feast, and in the seventh day is a feast, and the etsem-body of this great day is the whole seven days; the fourteenth day of the first month, at evening, until the twenty first day of the month, at evening. And not only of the lamb shall an etsem-bone of it not be broken; but of the etsem-body of that great day an etsem-bone of all the ordinances thereof shall not be broken; even the whole etsem-body of the great day which is seven days with a feast and a feast in the first and seventh days.

Therefore when I read the events concerning Passover Unleavened Bread as recorded in the Gospel accounts I see all seven days in the day of the feast because I see the whole as the etsem-body of the seven days in the one great day of the feast, (and I do believe this is how the apostolic writers also see it in their writings). Edit (thanks Alex) For example I do not find a conflict when some of the talmidim may have supposed that Yhudas was going out to buy what might be needed for the remainder of the feast, as in John 13:29, because it was not the night of the first mikra kodesh. Neither do I see a conflict with the Preparation Day mentioned in John 19:31 because I understand that Preparation Day as Friday, 20 Abib, the Preparation for the great high Shabbat Gadol and feast of the final day of the Passover, (Exodus 13:6).
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[Yeshua HaDerekh]

That is actually not correct HeDerekh. Yes, that is how Rome handed it down, and in the East the word for Friday became synonymous with preparation (since Friday is always the preparation for the Sabbath) but the Jews had several other Sabbaths that could fall on other days of the week, such as the 15th day high Sabbath that always follows the 14th day Passover, as well as the day of atonement (Yom Kippur).

I know there were Moedim held on other days of the week. However, the day of preparation for the Sabbath was Friday.

 

[Yeshua HaDerekh]

HaDerekh this definitely does get tricky. The tricky part is that for the Jews in Yeshua's day there were 12 hours in the day and 12 hours in the night. And the night always came first, beginning at sunset. So when you say Sunday is day 4 that is not true in their reckoning, because the "day" portion did not begin until 6:00am. That's when they began numbering their hours for the day. The scripture says Yeshua dies at the ninth hour, and this was 2:00-3:00. So when Yeshua says 3 days and 3 nights the portion Sunday was only a night portion (Sunday night began as Saturday/Sabbath ended, from about 6:00pm to 6:00 am). Does that help with the Jewish reckoning?

However, part of a day is to be considered as a whole. The "day" of Sunday begins Saturday evening...so the resurrection could occur anytime after sunset Saturday evening to be a Sunday resurrection. If I said some died on the Sabbath, could he die Friday night after sunset and still be true?

 

[Yeshua HaDerekh]

Hello there Yeshua HaDerekh. I don't think you mean to do it but you actually made a break with logical progression of numbers there. What you should have said was "Sunday was the third days since, Saturday was therefore the 2nd day since, and Friday was the 1st day since, and Thursday was the "day these things happened" (arrest, crucifixion). You cannot change your numbering in the middle of your sentence, that is a logical break.

I didn't change anything. Today is the 3rd day since these events occurred, meaning it was Sunday, it was that 3rd day. Saturday was the 2nd day and Friday would have been when those events (crucifixion) occurred.

 

[visionary]

Yeshua was in the tomb from Wednesday evening (eve of Thursday) until Saturday evening (eve of Sunday) the first day.

Wednesday night - Thursday night = 1 night and 1 day

Passover has come to a close, Yeshua is placed in the grave before Sunset when the Feast of Unleavened Bread starts. It is a Sabbath rest.

Thursday night - Friday night = 2 night and 2 day

This is Preparation Day for the weekly Sabbath and the women go out to purchase the spice after the Sabbath rest of the Feast of Unleavened Bread, but before the weekly Sabbath starts. They were unable to get the spices prepared in time.

Friday night - Saturday night = 3 night and 3 day

.... "after" three days Yeshua rose from the dead. No one knows when exactly Yeshua rose, but the women arrive just before sunrise to find out that He has already risen. He is our First Fruits.

 

[daq]

1. Are you saying the 3 days and 3 nights began when they were supposedly in a Sanhedrin dungeon having a trial?

Regarding this also, yes, I do believe Yeshua was three full days and three full nights in the Sanhedrin dungeon pit from the morning of seventeen Abib, (after he stood before Ananus ben Seth, Ab Bet Din, in the night he was arrested, just before the morning dawning of seventeen Abib when Yeshua was lowered into the below ground cistern-pit) until the morning dawning of twenty Abib and his trial(s) which began at sunrise that day, (20 Abib). One of the few places arnion is indeed referenced in the Septuagint is found in Jeremiah, where the Prophet speaks of himself, but here I will simply quote the KJV from the Masoretic Hebrew text because of the language which relates to other key passages:

Jeremiah 11:18-23 KJV
18 And the LORD hath given me knowledge of it, and I know it: then thou shewedst me their doings.
19 But I was like a lamb [LXX reads "arnion"] or an ox that is brought to the slaughter; and I knew not that they had devised devices against me, saying, Let us destroy the tree with the fruit thereof, and let us cut him off from the land of the living, [Isaiah 53:8] that his name may be no more remembered.
20 But, O LORD of hosts, that judgest righteously, that triest the reins and the heart, let me see thy vengeance on them: for unto thee have I revealed my cause.
21 Therefore thus saith the LORD of the men of Anathoth, that seek thy life, saying, Prophesy not in the name of the LORD, that thou die not by our hand:
22 Therefore thus saith the LORD of hosts, Behold, I will punish them: the young men shall die by the sword; their sons and their daughters shall die by famine:
23 And there shall be no remnant of them: for I will bring evil upon the men of Anathoth, even the year of their visitation [Isaiah 61:1-2, Luke 4:17-19].

The above statement from verse nineteen surely appears to be a reference to Isaiah the Prophet from the very famous following passage, which I have already touched upon, being quoted also in the eighth chapter of the book of Acts:

Isaiah 53:6-8 KJV
6 All we like sheep have gone astray; we have turned every one to his own way; and the LORD hath laid on him the iniquity of us all.
7 He was oppressed, and he was afflicted, yet he opened not his mouth: he is brought as a lamb to the slaughter, and as a sheep before her shearers is dumb, so he openeth not his mouth.
8 He was taken from prison and from judgment: and who shall declare his generation? for he was cut off out of the land of the living: [Jeremiah 11:19] for the transgression of my people was he stricken.

Yet we see in the above passage that Isaiah says the suffering servant is taken from prison, (though variant in the Greek versions). Therefore perhaps then we should ask ourselves if it is possible that Yeshua was ever in prison? Was he not counted as a prisoner when Pilate asked the rulers to choose between Yeshua and the prisoner Bar-Abbas? Was Peter not also a prisoner under Herod when Herod sought to lead him out before the people at the end of the Passover in Acts 12:1-4 according to the very same custom of releasing a prisoner spoken of in the Gospel accounts concerning Yeshua? Or can it be that the Prophet Jeremiah was speaking of his own time spent in the dungeon pit in the passage quoted previously above? This is indeed what Jeremiah the Prophet was speaking of in that passage already quoted; he speaks of it again in the book of Lamentations:

Jeremiah 38:4-6 KJV
4 Therefore the princes said unto the king, We beseech thee, let this man be put to death: for thus he weakeneth the hands of the men of war that remain in this city, and the hands of all the people, in speaking such words unto them: for this man seeketh not the welfare of this people, but the hurt.
5 Then Zedekiah the king said, Behold, he is in your hand: for the king is not he that can do any thing against you.
6 Then took they Jeremiah, and cast him into the dungeon of Malchiah the son of Hammelech, that was in the court of the prison: and they let down Jeremiah with cords. And in the dungeon there was no water, but mire: so Jeremiah sunk in the mire

Jeremiah 38:6 Brenton Septuagint
6 (45:6) And they cast him into the dungeon of Melchias the king's son, which was in the court of the prison; and they let him down into the pit: and there was no water in the pit, but mire: and he was in the mire.

And the Prophet speaks of this time in the prison cistern-pit in Lamentations using once again the same language as found in the Isaiah 53 passage:

Lamentations 3:52-62 KJV
52 Mine enemies chased me sore, like a bird, without cause.
53 They have cut off my life in the dungeon, and cast a stone upon me.
54 Waters flowed over mine head; then I said, I am cut off.
55 I called upon thy name, O LORD, out of the low dungeon.
56 Thou hast heard my voice: hide not thine ear at my breathing, at my cry.
57 Thou drewest near in the day that I called upon thee: thou saidst, Fear not.
58 O Lord, thou hast pleaded the causes of my soul; thou hast redeemed my life.
59 O LORD, thou hast seen my wrong: judge thou my cause.
60 Thou hast seen all their vengeance and all their imaginations against me.
61 Thou hast heard their reproach, O LORD, and all their imaginations against me;
62 The lips of those that rose up against me, and their device against me all the day.

If you listen intently enough through what follows after the highlighted portions in the above you may hear the words of the Prophet Yonah, in the belly of the great fish, and likewise the words of king David in Psalm 22.
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[Yeshua HaDerekh]

Yeshua was in the tomb from Wednesday evening (eve of Thursday) until Saturday evening (eve of Sunday) the first day.

Wednesday night - Thursday night = 1 night and 1 day

Passover has come to a close, Yeshua is placed in the grave before Sunset when the Feast of Unleavened Bread starts. It is a Sabbath rest.

Thursday night - Friday night = 2 night and 2 day

This is Preparation Day for the weekly Sabbath and the women go out to purchase the spice after the Sabbath rest of the Feast of Unleavened Bread, but before the weekly Sabbath starts. They were unable to get the spices prepared in time.

Friday night - Saturday night = 3 night and 3 day

.... "after" three days Yeshua rose from the dead. No one knows when exactly Yeshua rose, but the women arrive just before sunrise to find out that He has already risen. He is our First Fruits.

Well, as you already know, I disagree. One thing is certain, He arose anytime AFTER sunset on Saturday (which would be Sunday) because it was Yom HaBikkurim.

 

[Alex Tennent]

Hi Alex, I will attempt to address point number two from my previous post:



Concerning the phrase, bə·‘e·ṣem hay·yō·wm haz·zeh, it is found in Exodus 12:17 where its placement in the context should not be overlooked or underestimated. When the phrase is understood as "in the body of this day" it strongly implies in this context that the day spoken of concerns seven days in one greater day even though it is not called a week:

Exodus 12:13-19
13. And the blood shall be to you for a token upon the houses where you are: and when I see the blood, I will pass over you, and the plague shall not be upon you to destroy you when I smite the land of Egypt.
14. And this day shall be unto you for a memorial; and you shall keep it a feast to HaShem throughout your generations, you shall keep it a feast by an ordinance forever:
15. Seven days shall you eat matzot; moreover, the first day you shall put away leaven out of your houses, for whosoever eats anything leavened from the first day until the seventh day, that soul shall be cut off from Yisrael.
16. And in the first day [is] a mikra-kodesh holy convocation, and in the seventh day shall be a mikra-kodesh holy convocation to you; no manner of work shall be done in them, save that which every man must eat, that only may be done of you.
17. And you shall observe ha-matzot; for in the body of this day (bə·‘e·ṣem hay·yō·wm haz·zeh) I do bring your armies out of the land of Egypt: therefore shall you observe this day in your generations by an ordinance forever:
18. In the first month, on the fourteenth day of the month at evening, you shall eat matzot, until the one and twentieth day of the month at evening:
19. Seven days there shall be no leaven found in your houses; for whosoever eats that which is leavened, even that soul shall be cut off from the congregation of Yisrael, whether he be a stranger, or born in the land.

Exodus 13:6
6. Seven days you shalt eat matzot; and in the seventh day [is] a feast to HaShem.

In the first day is a feast, and in the seventh day is a feast, and the etsem-body of this great day is the whole seven days; the fourteenth day of the first month, at evening, until the twenty first day of the month, at evening. And not only of the lamb shall an etsem-bone of it not be broken; but of the etsem-body of that great day an etsem-bone of all the ordinances thereof shall not be broken; even the whole etsem-body of the great day which is seven days with a feast and a feast in the first and seventh days.

Therefore when I read the events concerning Passover Unleavened Bread as recorded in the Gospel accounts I see all seven days in the day of the feast because I see the whole as the etsem-body of the seven days in the one great day of the feast, (and I do believe this is how the apostolic writers also see it in their writings). For example I do I find a conflict when some of the talmidim may have supposed that Yhudas was going out to buy what might be needed for the remainder of the feast, as in John 13:29, because it was not the night of the first mikra kodesh. Neither do I see a conflict with the Preparation Day mentioned in John 19:31 because I understand that Preparation Day as Friday, 20 Abib, the Preparation for the great high Shabbat Gadol and feast of the final day of the Passover, (Exodus 13:6).
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Daq,

I know that some believers would disdain this idea of “day” here referring to the “the body of this day,” (and hence the whole seven day feast), but I am not among them. I know that scriptures can often have certain shades of meaning, and it’s not always just one thing. However I believe your "day" meaning the whole week explanation does not fit the scriptures here for the following reasons:

That verse in Exodus 12:14 with “this day” is clearly referring to the previous verse where God told them to place the blood of the lamb over their doorposts, and He would then “pass over” them around midnight (i.e. that midnight after the Passover sacrifice, which would be the 15th day at sunset).

NIV Exodus 12:13 The blood will be a sign for you on the houses where you are; and when I see the blood, I will pass over you. No destructive plague will touch you when I strike Egypt.


NIV Exodus 12:14 "This is a day you are to commemorate; for the generations to come you shall celebrate it as a festival to the LORD-- a lasting ordinance.


In Numbers 33:3 we again see “this day” specified as the 15th day when God passed over and they left Egypt, this day that was to be a special memorial kept as a High Sabbath throughout their generations:

NAS Numbers 33:3 And they journeyed from Rameses in the first month, on the fifteenth day of the first month; on the next day after the Passover the sons of Israel started out boldly in the sight of all the Egyptians,

This is the same 15th day spoken of in Exodus:

NAS Exodus 12:17 'You shall also observe the Feast of Unleavened Bread, for on this very day I brought your hosts out of the land of Egypt; therefore you shall observe this day throughout your generations as a permanent ordinance.


This is why this 15th day is kept as a holy convocation (Miqra) because it was this 15th day memorial in which God saw the blood on their door posts and passed over. God wanted this day kept as a special day, unique unto itself, and kept as a Sabbath. The other days in this seven day Festival were not kept as a Sabbath, except the seventh day. So “this day” cannot refer to the whole week, otherwise every day in the week would be kept as this Sabbath memorial:


NAS Numbers 29:12 'Then on the fifteenth day of the seventh month you shall have a holy convocation; you shall do no laborious work, and you shall observe a feast to the LORD for seven days.


You are right that not many see these things as you do, and I truly appreciate when someone seeks to view things outside the box and test things, but I think you would agree that our views must always align with the scripture, for the Messiah said the scripture cannot be broken.

You then write:

For example I do I find a conflict when some of the talmidim may have supposed that Yhudas was going out to buy what might be needed for the remainder of the feast, as in John 13:29, because it was not the night of the first mikra kodesh. (end quote)

I think you meant to say “I do not find a conflict…” , and if so I do agree with you here J

Then you wrote:

Neither do I see a conflict with the Preparation Day mentioned in John 19:31 because I understand that Preparation Day as Friday, 20 Abib, the Preparation for the great high Shabbat Gadol and feast of the final day of the Passover, (Exodus 13:6). (end quote)

So Daq based on this you are saying that the Messiah was not crucified on the 14th day, but rather on the 20th day? To me it seems like there is too much typology involved to say that God did not command the 14th day Passover sacrifice to Moses because of his foreknowledge, knowing His son would be crucified this day (which was the preparation for the 15th day Sabbath):

NAS Acts 2:23 this Man, delivered up by the predetermined plan and foreknowledge of God, you nailed to a cross by the hands of godless men and put Him to death.

 

[Alex Tennent]

I know there were Moedim held on other days of the week. However, the day of preparation for the Sabbath was Friday.

Except it was not the preparation for the Saturday Sabbath, it was the preparation for the 15th day Sabbath of the Passover, which could fall on any day of the week, and this year it fell on a Friday. The Messiah was crucified on the day given to Moses by God's forknowledge, the 14th day of the month, so it was the preparation for the Passover (i.e. the 15th day high sabbath that begins the Festival called Passover):

John 19:14 14 Now it was the day of preparation for the Passover; it was about the sixth hour. And he said to the Jews, "Behold, your King!"

 

[Alex Tennent]

Why did the ancients conflate "the Passover" with "the Feast of Unleavened Bread" making both terms essentially interchangeable? (I suggest that the above is the reason why).

Daq I truly enjoy the different angles in which you view things! It forces me out of my comort zone to test and consider what I believe. To answer your above question here is my take:

I believe the scriptures in the Tanak are clear that there was a difference between the Passover and the seven day Feast of Unleavened bread as these scriptures point out:

Numbers 28:16-17 16 'Then on the fourteenth day of the first month shall be the LORD's Passover. 17 'And on the fifteenth day of this month shall be a feast, unleavened bread shall be eaten for seven days.

But we also know that at some point in time it became common to refer to the whole Festival as the Passover. I think there are several reasons for this. One of which is that although the Passover lamb was sacrificed on the afternoon of the 14th day, by the time the people roasted them and got home and began eating it was usually after sunset into the 15th day. So the eating of the Passover (Passover Feast) became synonomous with the entering into this seven day Festival. Also, God "passed over" on this 15th day, so that is another reason to call that day the Passover (the Talmud almost always refers to the 15th day when they say Passover. For instance when they say "Yeshu was hung on a tree on the eve of Passover" they mean it was in the afternoon of the 14th day, which is the eve of Passover. Just like for Christians "Christmas eve" is the 6 hour or so period before Christmas, so was "eve of Passover" the 6 hours before the 15th day Passover Sabbath begins. But the Talmud makes it very clear that when they say "Passover" they almost always mean the 15th day Sabbath, which was the entrance into the Festival called Passover.

I believe one other answer is what Feast name sounds better, and which Feast name would an Israelite be more proud of among the nations to celebrate? Something called "The Feast of Unleavened crackers" or a Feast name that would cause fear among the nations for reminding them of the God of Israel surrounding and delivering them, "The Passover."
This change of names may have taken place after the Babylonian captivity, because I don't think there are any Tanak references used this way? We do see the seven day feast "called" Passover in the NT though:

NAS Luke 22:1 Now the Feast of Unleavened Bread, which is called the Passover, was approaching.