• Welcome to Christian Forums
  1. Welcome to Christian Forums, a forum to discuss Christianity in a friendly surrounding.

    Your voice is missing! You will need to register to be able to join in fellowship with Christians all over the world.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon and God Bless!

  2. The forums in the Christian Congregations category are now open only to Christian members. Please review our current Faith Groups list for information on which faith groups are considered to be Christian faiths. Christian members please remember to read the Statement of Purpose threads for each forum within Christian Congregations before posting in the forum.

Featured What is this Time Frame

Discussion in 'Eschatology - Endtimes & Prophecy Forum' started by Just The Facts, Feb 20, 2019.

  1. Just The Facts

    Just The Facts Senior Veteran

    +66
    Non-Denom
    Hi All

    [7] The man clothed in linen, who was above the waters of the stream, raised his right hand and his left hand toward heaven; and I heard him swear by him who lives for ever that it would be for a time, two times, and half a time; and that when the shattering of the power of the holy people comes to an end all these things would be accomplished.

    What is the Power of the Holy people?
     
    • Like Like x 2
    • Agree Agree x 1
    • List
    We teamed up with Faith Counseling. Can they help you today?
  2. Brian Mcnamee

    Brian Mcnamee Well-Known Member

    +684
    Non-Denom
    Married
    seems to me that with 42 months 2 go we see antichrist setting up the mark of the beast and killing all those who wont worship him. The Jews are told when they see abomination of desolation to flee and Jerusalem will be trampled for 42 months. Dan 7 says the sacrifice is stopped in the middle of the 70th week. 2 thess 4 says the man of sin is revealed when he sits in the temple as a god. The nation of Israel is sovereign and they will be persecuted this last 42 months and their power is gone. The jews who survive will be the holy ones who recognize Jesus either during this time or at the 2nd coming seen in ZEch 14. Luke 2 is a good one also as Zacharias said Jesus would deliver them from their enemies and from that point on they would worship and serve in holiness and safety from that point on. If we look at all that happens in the last 42 months that leads to the 2nd coming and transition to the millennium we can get agood idea of what is happening.
     
  3. Marilyn C

    Marilyn C Newbie Supporter

    +221
    Christian
    Married
    Hi Just The facts,

    I see you are looking at Daniel 12: 7. The power, Greek word, ` yad,` a hand, (open one) indicating power, means, direction etc.

    We read that God is speaking of Israel (Dan. 12: 1) and that when their own power (& strength) has been shattered (by the A/C) then their chastisement will be finished and Lord will come as their deliverer.

    Marilyn.
     
  4. Just The Facts

    Just The Facts Senior Veteran

    +66
    Non-Denom
    HI Brian

    Ok but God never promised the Jews power. Modern Israel has no power......they might as well be Orwell's Air Strip One. So what is this power God is speaking of and more over it is clearly defined as a time frame.

    God is giving Daniel many different time frames here.

    A Time Times and a half time depending on your theology is either 1260 days or 1260 years IE a day for a year as in Daniel 9: Then the Time of "the Power of the Holy People" Then 1290 days then 45 days.

    Now we know no one knows the hour or the day because of this prophecy....... this is why because we have this indeterminate section of time the Time of "The Power Of The Holy People"

    Hello Marilyn

    Once again I would Say the Jews that make up modern Israel have no power. They are merely puppets in a 1,000 year old dream.
     
  5. LittleLambofJesus

    LittleLambofJesus PESKY DEVIL! GIT! l SAID GIT! Supporter

    +27,749
    United States
    Christian
    Single
    US-Libertarian
    I would think there were 2 types of Holy People during the time of Jesus?
    The NC Saints who followed Christ and those who followed Moses, which were the corrupt murderous OC Judean rulers and Priesthood....and fulfilled in the 1st century..............IMHO

    Lazarus and the Rich Man - Here a little, there a little - Commentary
    Rich Man and Lazarus

    Question about the High Priest seeing Jesus coming on clouds of heaven

    Matthew 26:
    63 But Jesus remained silent.
    Then the high priest said to Him, “I charge You under oath by the living God: Tell us if You are the Christ, the Son of God.”
    64 “Thou say,” Jesus answered.
    “But I say to all of ye, from now on ye shall be seeing the Son of Man sitting at the right hand of the Mighty One and coming on the clouds of the heaven.”g
    65 At this, the high priest tore his garments and said, “He has blasphemed!
    Why do we need any more witnesses? Look, now you have heard the blasphemy.
    66 What do you think?”
    “He deserves to die,” they answered.
    [Mark 14:61-63]

    Romans 2
    23 Who in law are boasting through the transgression of the Law, the God thou are dishonoring
    24 'For the name of the God is being blasphemed in the nations because of ye' according as it has been written.'
    [Psalms 74:10]

    Revelation 16:11
    And they blaspheme the God of the heaven out of the miseries of them, and out of the sores of them,
    and not they reform/repent out of the works of them.
     
    Last edited: Feb 21, 2019
  6. eleos1954

    eleos1954 God is Love Supporter

    +1,545
    United States
    Christian
    Married
    US-Others
    so what's are all the non-Jews (saved and unsaved) doing during this time frame?

    Dan 7 says the sacrifice is stopped in the middle of the 70th week. What sacrifice?
     
  7. BABerean2

    BABerean2 Newbie Supporter

    +4,507
    Christian
    Married
  8. eleos1954

    eleos1954 God is Love Supporter

    +1,545
    United States
    Christian
    Married
    US-Others
  9. Just The Facts

    Just The Facts Senior Veteran

    +66
    Non-Denom
    Hi BAB

    And I guess revelation was just a history book or are you going to try and say it was written in 66 AD
     
  10. Brian Mcnamee

    Brian Mcnamee Well-Known Member

    +684
    Non-Denom
    Married
    You have been led to believe that modern Israel is not relevant in Bible prophecy and that the church is now Israel. Those saved are the Israel of God or spiritual Israel and all are saved through the new covenant even those in Abraham's bosom were brought out after Jesus said it was finished and he descended to the grave and set these captives free. So all these issues here we are in agreement. This does not prove that all the other prophecies regarding Israel as the nation and Jerusalem are now summed up in the church.
    Take Ezekiel 36. God is addressing this passage to a people who have been scattered and returned to the land of Zion. This passage says this group has profaned the name of the LORD in all the nations they were scattered. God promises to give them a new heart. This new heart comes when God lifts the reproach of all the other nations and also that Israel and the nations will no longer bereave each other ever again. This is when peace comes to the earth. This has not happened and makes no sense if it is the church.
    There are hundreds of other prophecies that all support my previous timeline. The book of Revelation talks about a judgement for adding to or taking away from the book. The book itself talks about when the 1000 years begins. It mentions those who are killed for refusing the mark of the beast live and reign with Jesus for 1000 years. These are those beheaded during the 42 months Rev 13 says will happen. The book interprets itself as those 42 months are literal and the 1000 years will also be. Satan bound and loosed while the beast and false prophet are in the fire for the whole 1000 years. The nations no longer deceived until the 1000 years are over. This has not happened. In fact if you are open to the idea that a NWO that is forming before our eyes is going to be the kingdom of antichrist that will allow the Jews a 3rd temple the literal view comes into focus. Israel is prepared for the 3rd temple. The nations want to divide Israel and Jerusalem. The book of Joel talks about the great day of the LORD and notes they divided the land. Daniel 9 the confirming of the covenant with the many points out that in the middle of the week the daily sacrifices will stop. This ties in with Rev 13 giving 42 months left after the beast survive the mortal wound and the mark of the beast and image are enforced. 2 thess describes the man of sin claiming to be God in the Temple. He is destroyed at the coming of the LORD. This is setting up. Nero was not destroyed at the coming of the LORD. Every aspect of the literal interpretation of the end times events is lined up with current events and is moving the direction anticipated.
     
  11. BABerean2

    BABerean2 Newbie Supporter

    +4,507
    Christian
    Married
    No.

    The timing of the future bodily resurrection and judgment of the dead is found below.

    Rev 11:15 And the seventh angel sounded; and there were great voices in heaven, saying, The kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord, and of his Christ; and he shall reign for ever and ever.

    Rev 11:18 And the nations were angry, and thy wrath is come, and the time of the dead, that they should be judged, and that thou shouldest give reward unto thy servants the prophets, and to the saints, and them that fear thy name, small and great; and shouldest destroy them which destroy the earth.

    .
     
  12. Just The Facts

    Just The Facts Senior Veteran

    +66
    Non-Denom
    Hello Brian

    I have not been lead to anything of the sort. I do not Believe the Church is Israel. Nor do I believe the Jews are Israel...They are Judah ....Not Israel. Surly you are aware that Jesus was born a Jew in Judea. Never before is the Land now occupied buy the Jews called Israel it was Judea it is Judea. Modern Lebanon is Israel.... So that deals with the land aspect of who Israel is in the Bible. Now as for the name Israel.......It is like the 50 states all Texans are Americans but not all Americans Texans. So all Jews are Israelite's but not all Israelite's are Jews. Further more the Name Israel can Individually apply to Non Jews. As I am sure you are aware The Kingdom Named Israel was in existence at the same time as the Kingdom of Judah. SO why did this none Jewish Kingdom call itself Israel. Why does God acknowledge it as Israel. The point I am making is you need to be very very careful when looking at prophecy concerning the name Israel. You need to be sure who it is talking about. The belief of many that God just threw the other tribes away is just nonsense. Prophecy about the House of Judah and the House of Israel/Jacob/Joseph/Ephraim are everywhere.

    Now Ezekiel 36 is a prime example of what I said above. This Prophecy is to the House of Israel. Now the fact that the term House of Israel is used is very telling. Ezekiel and God both know well there is all of the descendants /children Israel and Two Houses the House of Judah and the House of Israel/Jacob/Joseph/Ephraim. I use those four names because that is what Scripture calls them in different places

    For example just a little past what you quote we read

    [16] "Son of man, take a stick and write on it, `For Judah, and the children of Israel associated with him'; then take another stick and write upon it, `For Joseph (the stick of E'phraim) and all the house of Israel associated with him';

    Notice in the above verse the two houses are very distinctly identified further more the Jews are called Children of Israel ie Jacob who God renamed Israel which indeed they are but The Tribes associated with Joseph /Ephraim are directly called "The House of Israel"

    So now with this understanding of How God is separating and calling these two groups go back to your verse.

    [22]"Therefore say to the house of Israel, Thus says the Lord GOD: It is not for your sake, O house of Israel, that I am about to act, but for the sake of my holy name, which you have profaned among the nations to which you came.

    You simply can not ignore how God directly separates these two groups. It is Clear that Chapter 36 is Directed at the House of Israel IE Joseph /Ephraim and not the Jews.

    The second problem I have with what you wrote above is this whole theory that the Jews in Defiance of God can build another Temple start animal sacrifice and somehow that is acceptable to God. SO what Jesus' death on the cross no longer means anything there is a different path to salvation. That contradicts Jesus own words He says no one gets to the Kingdom accept through him.

    So what I can deny Jesus profane Gods Name start up animal sacrifice and then when Jesus shows up and destroy the armies about to destroy me I can say wow you are the Saviour and all is forgiven. Please I would have to be very uninformed in the truth of scripture to believe such a thing.
     
  13. Just The Facts

    Just The Facts Senior Veteran

    +66
    Non-Denom
    Hi Bab

    But the great tribulation not since the begining of the world in Daniel Mattthew and Revelation already passed in 70AD?
     
  14. BABerean2

    BABerean2 Newbie Supporter

    +4,507
    Christian
    Married
    No.

    We are promised tribulation in the New Testament.

    Rev_1:9 I John, who also am your brother, and companion in tribulation, and in the kingdom and patience of Jesus Christ, was in the isle that is called Patmos, for the word of God, and for the testimony of Jesus Christ.

    The future Second Coming of Christ occurs when the "times of the Gentiles" comes to fullness, which is when the time of tribulation ends.


    Mat 24:16 Then let them which be in Judaea flee into the mountains:
    Mat 24:17 Let him which is on the housetop not come down to take any thing out of his house:
    Mat 24:18 Neither let him which is in the field return back to take his clothes.
    Mat 24:19 And woe unto them that are with child, and to them that give suck in those days!
    Mat 24:20 But pray ye that your flight be not in the winter, neither on the sabbath day:
    Mat 24:21 For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.

    Mat 24:29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:
    Mat 24:30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.
    Mat 24:31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.


    Luk 21:21 Then let them which are in Judaea flee to the mountains; and let them which are in the midst of it depart out; and let not them that are in the countries enter thereinto.
    Luk 21:23 But woe unto them that are with child, and to them that give suck, in those days! for there shall be great distress in the land, and wrath upon this people.
    Luk 21:24 And they shall fall by the edge of the sword, and shall be led away captive into all nations: and Jerusalem shall be trodden down of the Gentiles, until the times of the Gentiles be fulfilled.
    Luk 21:25 And there shall be signs in the sun, and in the moon, and in the stars; and upon the earth distress of nations, with perplexity; the sea and the waves roaring;
    Luk 21:26 Men's hearts failing them for fear, and for looking after those things which are coming on the earth: for the powers of heaven shall be shaken.
    Luk 21:27 And then shall they see the Son of man coming in a cloud with power and great glory.
    Luk 21:28 And when these things begin to come to pass, then look up, and lift up your heads; for your redemption draweth nigh.

    .
     
  15. Revealing Times

    Revealing Times Well-Known Member

    +378
    Protestant
    Married
    To break/shatter their POWER means to stop them from RULING THEMSELVES by Conquering Israel at the 1260 {Middle of the week}. You would agree that Israel rules themselves now right ?

    Everyone of the NUMBERS given unto us in Daniel 12 is reverse of what people think, except most get the 1260 is 1260 days until the Second Coming of Jesus ends all of these wonders. But they don't get the 1260 or 1335 in like manner. Daniel asks in verse 8, what shall be the End of these things ? And then Jesus {the man in linen} tells him that from the time the daily [sacrifice] is taken away and the Abomination of Desolation is set up {same thing as per the timing} there will be 1260 days. This doesn't mean that Jesus is speaking about 30 days into the 1000 year Millennium Reign, it means he is speaking about the EVENT {AoD} happening 30 days before the Holy Peoples are CRUSHED/DEFEATED by the Anti-Christ/Little Horn.

    Thus it makes perfect sense, why would Jesus give them a sign of "when to flee" that happened after they were Conquered by the Beast ? Thus it means that it will be 1290 days until these WONDERS END {Second Coming} from the time the AoD is set up. Likewise the 1335 is 1335 days before the Second Coming. I think that is when the Two-witnesses show up, thus it's a blessing. I think the Jews turn to Christ BEFORE the DOTL just like Malachi 4:5-6 says and thus the DAILY that is taken away is the False Prophet not allowing Jesus to be worshiped in the Temple of God, but he the places an IMAGE of the Beast {Rev. 13} which will by the E.U. President, into the Temple of God 1290 days before the Second Coming.

    Th Jews are ALL ISRAEL today. There were never any lost tribes. When the 10 Kingdoms were taken away, there were people from all of those tribes living in Jerusalem, thus they had SEED in Judah, thus they became as ONE NATION all known as Jews even though seed from all 12 tribes were preserved. The 10 Tribes were never lost in that they have seed who are now called Jews. It is what it is.
     
    Last edited: Feb 21, 2019
  16. claninja

    claninja Well-Known Member

    +1,415
    Christian
    Married
    Jesus associates the great tribulation of Daniel with the destruction of Jerusalem.

    Daniel 12:1 At that time shall arise Michael, the great prince who has charge of your people. And there shall be a time of trouble, such as never has been since there was a nation till that time.

    Matthew 24:21 For then there will be great tribulation, such as has not been from the beginning of the world until now, no, and never will be.

    Jesus associates the righteous shining like the stars/sun in Daniel with the harvest at the end of the age

    Daniel 12:2-3 And many of those who sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt. And those who are wise shall shine like the brightness of the sky above; and those who turn many to righteousness, like the stars forever and ever.

    Matthew 13:39-43 The harvest is the end of the age, and the reapers are angels. Just as the weeds are gathered and burned with fire, so will it be at the end of the age. The Son of Man will send his angels, and they will gather out of his kingdom all causes of sin and all law-breakers, and throw them into the fiery furnace. In that place there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth. Then the righteous will shine like the sun in the kingdom of their Father. He who has ears, let him hear.

    Thus I would argue the shattering of the power/hand of the holy people is associated with destruction of Jerusalem and the temple at the end of the age, which resulted in the old obsolete covenant vanishing away, and.....

    Hebrews 8:13 In speaking of a new covenant, he makes the first one obsolete. And what is becoming obsolete and growing old is ready to vanish away

    .......the kingdom being given to the saints.

    matthew 21:43-45 Therefore I tell you, the kingdom of God will be taken away from you and given to a people producing its fruits. And the one who falls on this stone will be broken to pieces; and when it falls on anyone, it will crush him.”When the chief priests and the Pharisees heard his parables, they perceived that he was speaking about them

    Matthew 13:43 Then the righteous will shine like the sun in the kingdom of their Father
     
  17. keras

    keras Writer of Bible prophecy studies.

    +1,505
    New Zealand
    Pentecostal
    Married
    Why don't you actually read Ezekiel 37?
    You would soon see that the House of Israel has not yet re-joined with the House of Judah. None of the Promised Blessings have been conferred yet.
    Besides the fact of the Jews not being 'as many as the sands of the sea'.
    But it does, because we Christians are the followers of Jesus; in whom all the Promises of God are and will be fulfilled. 2 Corinthians 1:20
    Isn't it rather obvious that God will not pour out His Spirit and blessings upon anyone other that those who love Him and who accept the Salvation of Jesus?
     
  18. Just The Facts

    Just The Facts Senior Veteran

    +66
    Non-Denom
    Hi RT

    I understand you need this to be true for your doctrine to be correct but the reality is it is not correct. The Jews in Modern Israel are even looking for the Lost Tribes. Josephus the famous Jewish Historian says that in his time the 10 tribes were still scattered abroad. Scripture says they do not get reunited until God brings them out of their Graves. Scripture also says they would all die in foreign lands never returning to the Holy land as part of their punishment. God even goes so far as to say it is part of his plan for it to be this way. Sorry but you are just wrong on this point.

    I am a little confused if your 120 days is just a typo and you mean 1260 days but no where is either of those time frames mentioned. there is no 120 days or 1260 days spoken of in Daniel 12.

    There are these time frames

    A Time times and a half time.

    The Power of the Holy people

    1290 days

    and 45 days

    No Mention of 1260 or 120 days
     
  19. Revealing Times

    Revealing Times Well-Known Member

    +378
    Protestant
    Married
    I could care less what the Jews are looking for, are you joking brother ? Why should I, a man with the Holy Spirit, look to what people who are blinded think ? Did you think that one through or are you the type that will cling to anything to justify a point ? So you started off with a dud.

    Again, no one cares about this, we all know they were taken away !! The POINT REMAINS, as long as there is SEED left in Judah from the other tribes, they are not lost !! That is just a fact.

    Scriptures say no such thing unless you are speaking about the Valley of Dry Bones prophecy, then Israel are indeed reborn as a Nation and they will be all one Nation, that is because all the Jews are mixed together now from all 12 tribes, and have been that way since the time the 10 tribes were taken away. Thus when they are brought back they are brought back as one nation, which is what they are now, one nation, Israel.

    Try reading the Prophecy of the Valley of Dry Bones, it shows your understanding to be incorrect here my brother in Christ.

    My 6 is hanging up on me it seems.

    Of course there is a mention of 1260 days, that is what a Time{a year}, a Times {2 years}, and a half time {half year} means. We know exactly what it means because its is spoken of twice in Rev. ch. 12, via the Time, times and half and via the 1260 days.

    Rev. 12:6 And the woman fled into the wilderness, where she hath a place prepared of God, that they should feed her there a thousand two hundred and threescore days {1260}.

    Rev. 12:14 And to the woman were given two wings of a great eagle, that she might fly into the wilderness, into her place, where she is nourished for a time, and times, and half a time, from the face of the serpent.

    So we know that a Time, times and half time = 1260 days.

    So 1260 days are mentioned, we just have to dig out the truth.
     
  20. Just The Facts

    Just The Facts Senior Veteran

    +66
    Non-Denom
    RT

    First off the valley of Bones is the first resurrection not some man made gathering. You need to read and trust it clearly says God will bring them out of their graves

    [12] Therefore prophesy, and say to them, Thus says the Lord GOD: Behold, I will open your graves, and raise you from your graves, O my people; and I will bring you home (meaning from the lands where they were buried) into the land of Israel. [13] And you shall know that I am the LORD, when I open your graves, and raise you from your graves, O my people. [14] And I will put my Spirit within you, and you shall live, and I will place you in your own land; then you shall know that I, the LORD, have spoken, and

    It really doesn't get any clearer that that............ and please do not try and say that it is a spiritual grave bla bla bla bla.... Accept Gods word and stop trying to twist it to fit a doctrine of men.

    You are assuming that a time times and a half of times means literal days. There is ample evidence it could just as easily mean 1260 years just as the 42 months in Rev 13 could also mean 1260 years.

    Do you really believe that these different ways of saying a time frame are just the Authors Whim.

    There is a reason it does not say days because God wants us to understand it is a day for a year. Just as the Week in Daniel 9 are a day for a year.
     
Loading...