Open Theism in a nutshell.So if a believer goes prodigal, and comes back, they never lost their salvation while they were prodigal?
If so, this is a bad message to send to others because it means one can go prodigal again and still be saved. That is why I have a problem with Eternal Security. It is saying there is nothing you can do to lose salvation. Stop for a moment. Do you believe that Eternal Security Christians sin? If so, how do they deal with sin? Do they confess and forsake such sins? Many Eternal Security Christians have told me that they will not be able to stop sinning this side of Heaven. To what degree of sin are they talking about? They obviously believe they are saved. So this means that they can sin and still be saved on some level. For example: Many in the Eternal Security camp who appear to be for holy living as a part of being a Christian believes that a believer can commit suicide and still be saved. They also said that if a believer generally lived a holy life, and he looked at a woman in lust and got hit by a bus and died, they would be saved. There is a problem with this kind of thinking. It is a justification of a little bit of evil. Remember, it only took one sin by Adam for the mess that we are in now (with the Fall of mankind). In short, a believer cannot live holy and yet admit that they will sin at some point in the future as a matter of fact. Their mind is bent to sin again and it is not set on things above and God's good ways alone.
As for Calvinism vs. Arminianism:
Calvinism is saying that you had no free will choice whatsoever in choosing the Lord. That the choice was made 100% by God based on no conditions (Hence, why it is called Unconditonal Election). In other words, the problem you should have with Calvinism is that God only saves a few (based on no conditions whatsoever) when He has the power to save them all. This would be wrong or immoral of God to do this because God desires the ultimate good for His creation.
For example: In an alternate universe (and not this universe where nothing traumtic happened to you and your family): Imagine you and your family and some other people (in this alternate universe) are thrown off the boat you were on, and you are stranded in the ocean waters. Now, imagine if a coast guard appeared who seemed like he was going to save you, your children, and five other people and yet he did not save you or your children (and yet he had the power to do so), and only saved the five other people. Would you be like, “Oh, look kids, this coast guard is surely a good man. For he reminds me a lot like God who does what he pleases in regards to saving people.” Is that what you would be saying? Most likely not. You would be throwing a fit how the coast guard chose to save the others but he did not save you, and your family (in this alternate universe). You most likely would be thinking or screaming of how it was unfair. Well, most people would be thinking this way. But the staunch Calvinist wants me to accept that GOD is this way? However, GOD is so much better than any human.
Arminians believe in Prevenient Grace (which works with Total Depravity). I believe in Partial Depravity and I do not believe in Total Depravity like Calvinists and Arminians. Instead of Arminian's Prevenient Grace, I believe in “Unrestricted Initial Drawing(s) & Illumination(s)” by God For Majority. They are similar but not exactly the same. My view takes into account that God desires all men to be saved, and it also takes into account Revelation 13:8, and Revelation 17:8. Prevenient Grace does not also clarify that God may not make multiple attempts to try and save a person, as well. For Romans 10:21 says, “...All day long I have stretched forth my hands unto a disobedient and gainsaying people.” But the major reason why I disagree with Prevenient Grace is that it is the fix to Total Depravity. But Total Depravity is unbiblical.
I believe that God elects based on His future foreknowledge of our free will choices (1 Peter 1:1-2). So God is one step ahead of what will do. But this is based on our decision. Also, Jesus draws all men unto Himself. There are also those who receive not the love of the truth that they might be saved, as well.
2 Thessalonians 2:10 KJB
“And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved.”
That's a better doctrine. Too far the other way and you start claiming that your sins are not sins but just "mistakes" because you don't want to view them as sins because you think you're dead to sin and can't sin so whatever you do can't POSSIBLY be sin. Are you going to confess and seek forgiveness for mistakes? Less likely, you're going to justify them as mistakes rather than sin. That's what I worry about,
You said:and also how I interpret 1 John 1:8, because it connects directly with 1 John 1:9 It's not a 1 time all sins wiped and if you ever sin again you're condemned again. It's also not a 1 time all sins past present future wiped with you not needing to maintain this relationship you've established. Our salvation is the beginning of a relationship with God our Father, a relationship that you don't just want to enter and then discard and go on living in sin trusting that you've sealed the deal, but you want to call your Father a lot, and when you do something that displeases Him, you come and admit guilt and seek forgiveness. That's what I get out of 1 John 1. But you are correct in what you say next partially.
You said:It is the goal, that is correct, but I am doubtful that people truly achieve the goal in flesh. You somehow think that not only is it the goal, but that people can and do achieve it.
You said:1 Corinthians 15:50 is where I get my understanding that we don't become incorruptible and walk perfectly in God's will until we lose this flesh.
You said:There are 3 reasons why I disagree with Holiness/sinless perfection in flesh doctrine. #1 because I see Paul and John still talking about struggles with sin biblically.
You said:Paul called himself the chief of sinners and that was not a past tense.
You said:In reality, I see a lot of people who seem to be upstanding people, with a better walk than me, claiming that they are still absolutely wicked sinners, it's an attitude of humility that they see their own sins as being worse than everyone else's.
You said:#2 is connected, when you adopt that doctrine 1 of 2 things happens, you either stop seeing your sins as sins and claim they're just "mistakes" and justify them (turning the water on so hot that it feels cold), or you get depressed and start giving up because you recognize that you still sin so you think God has forsaken you and given you up to a reprobate mind (turning the water on so cold that it feels hot). Not that I'm saying you want to be lukewarm. You do want to be hot, you do want to wage war against sin. But when you fail, you don't give up, do as Proverbs 24:16.. you fall down.. you get back up and try again. Through sanctification you should notice improvement, you'll defeat certain problem sins like maybe alcoholism you can finally beat through the spirit, but it'll be harder to defeat all sin. I see it as a life long process of improvement. Phiippians 1:6 shows a process that goes right up until the day of the Lord, right?
You said:I also have to wonder though.
How can a brother's soul be saved after the flesh is delivered up to Satan for sinning as in 1 Corinthians 5?
Why would Paul specify that it's for the sake of saving their soul while their flesh is destroyed?
Open Theism in a nutshell.
ok thanks for clarifying your position.Thanks for the false accusation. I do not believe in Open Theism. Open Theism says that God cannot know certain things. I don't beleve that way. Such a teaching is clearly false.
what about a believer who causes a brother to stumble and become a hypocrite ?
what about Peter below who was willfully practicing the sin of hypocrisy whom Paul said stood condemned ?
what about a person living contrary to the truth of the gospel ?
what about a person who forces younger believers in the faith to live like a hypocrite ?
Galatians 2:11-16
When Cephas came to Antioch, I opposed him to his face, because he stood condemned. 12 For before certain men came from James, he used to eat with the Gentiles. But when they arrived, he began to draw back and separate himself from the Gentiles because he was afraid of those who belonged to the circumcision group. 13 The other Jews joined him in his hypocrisy, so that by their hypocrisy even Barnabas was led astray.
14 When I saw that they were not acting in line with the truth of the gospel, I said to Cephas in front of them all, “You are a Jew, yet you live like a Gentile and not like a Jew. How is it, then, that you force Gentiles to follow Jewish customs?
15 “We who are Jews by birth and not sinful Gentiles 16 know that a person is not justified by the works of the law, but by faith in Jesus Christ. So we, too, have put our faith in Christ Jesus that we may be justified by faith in Christ and not by the works of the law, because by the works of the law no one will be justified.
hope this helps !!!
I was not asking you.
There's 2 ways I look at this and I'm not sure which way is right.So if a believer goes prodigal, and comes back, they never lost their salvation while they were prodigal?
If so, this is a bad message to send to others because it means one can go prodigal again and still be saved. That is why I have a problem with Eternal Security. It is saying there is nothing you can do to lose salvation. Stop for a moment. Do you believe that Eternal Security Christians sin? If so, how do they deal with sin? Do they confess and forsake such sins? Many Eternal Security Christians have told me that they will not be able to stop sinning this side of Heaven. To what degree of sin are they talking about? They obviously believe they are saved. So this means that they can sin and still be saved on some level. For example: Many in the Eternal Security camp who appear to be for holy living as a part of being a Christian believes that a believer can commit suicide and still be saved. They also said that if a believer generally lived a holy life, and he looked at a woman in lust and got hit by a bus and died, they would be saved. There is a problem with this kind of thinking. It is a justification of a little bit of evil. Remember, it only took one sin by Adam for the mess that we are in now (with the Fall of mankind). In short, a believer cannot live holy and yet admit that they will sin at some point in the future as a matter of fact. Their mind is bent to sin again and it is not set on things above and God's good ways alone.
I agree with the basic concept that both Sovereignty and Free Will are both at work simultaneously, and the main thing is God foreknew who would choose Him freely, and to "keep" them He knows what He must do to bring them back to choosing Him if they go astray.As for Calvinism vs. Arminianism:
Calvinism is saying that you had no free will choice whatsoever in choosing the Lord. That the choice was made 100% by God based on no conditions (Hence, why it is called Unconditonal Election). In other words, the problem you should have with Calvinism is that God only saves a few (based on no conditions whatsoever) when He has the power to save them all. This would be wrong or immoral of God to do this because God desires the ultimate good for His creation.
For example: In an alternate universe (and not this universe where nothing traumtic happened to you and your family): Imagine you and your family and some other people (in this alternate universe) are thrown off the boat you were on, and you are stranded in the ocean waters. Now, imagine if a coast guard appeared who seemed like he was going to save you, your children, and five other people and yet he did not save you or your children (and yet he had the power to do so), and only saved the five other people. Would you be like, “Oh, look kids, this coast guard is surely a good man. For he reminds me a lot like God who does what he pleases in regards to saving people.” Is that what you would be saying? Most likely not. You would be throwing a fit how the coast guard chose to save the others but he did not save you, and your family (in this alternate universe). You most likely would be thinking or screaming of how it was unfair. Well, most people would be thinking this way. But the staunch Calvinist wants me to accept that GOD is this way? However, GOD is so much better than any human.
Arminians believe in Prevenient Grace (which works with Total Depravity). I believe in Partial Depravity and I do not believe in Total Depravity like Calvinists and Arminians. Instead of Arminian's Prevenient Grace, I believe in “Unrestricted Initial Drawing(s) & Illumination(s)” by God For Majority. They are similar but not exactly the same. My view takes into account that God desires all men to be saved, and it also takes into account Revelation 13:8, and Revelation 17:8. Prevenient Grace does not also clarify that God may not make multiple attempts to try and save a person, as well. For Romans 10:21 says, “...All day long I have stretched forth my hands unto a disobedient and gainsaying people.” But the major reason why I disagree with Prevenient Grace is that it is the fix to Total Depravity. But Total Depravity is unbiblical.
I believe that God elects based on His future foreknowledge of our free will choices (1 Peter 1:1-2). So God is one step ahead of what will do. But this is based on our decision. Also, Jesus draws all men unto Himself. There are also those who receive not the love of the truth that they might be saved, as well.
2 Thessalonians 2:10 KJB
“And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved.”
I believe that a believer is to confess of their secret faults, as well.
“Who can understand his errors? cleanse thou me from secret faults.” (Psalms 19:12).
We know that the Holy Spirit convicts the world of sin (John 16:8-9).
How much more do you think the Spirit will do for the truly faithful believer who is seeking to die to their self and serve God in all they do?
If you believe John is saying believers will always sin in 1 John 1:8, then this would contradict his words in 1 John 2:1 to “sin not” and his words in 1 John 2:4 that the person who says they know the Lord and yet they do not keep His commandments is a liar and the truth is not in them. Is somebody who always sins as per 1 John 1:8 keeping His commandments? No. So you are reading 1 John 1:8 out of context to what John is saying. John is clearly referring to the gnostic belief in 1 John 1:8 whereby a person will falsely think sin does not even exist or it is an illusion. 1 John 1:10 confirms this fact because it talks about a denial of a person never having sinned in their past life. We both agree that we both sinned in our past life, so 1 John 1:8 is a gnostic belief.
Your problem also is not dealing with what 1 John 1:9 says. It says if we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. But do you truly believe that confessing sin relates to salvation? I believe it does because the forgiveness of the Lord is dealing with salvation throughout the whole of the Bible. Many today want me to believe that I can be out of fellowship with God and be unforgiven and yet still saved (Which is an oxymoron).
Sorry. No offense, but if this is the case, then you don't believe the words in Scripture on the testimony of Job, Zacharias, Elisabeth, and the 144,000. You don't believe 2 Corinthians 7:1, Galatians 5:24, and 1 Peter 4:1-2, etc.
1 Corinthians 15:50 does not specifically say that you are living unrighteously as to the reason why one's is corruptible. It is referring to the BODY, and not your currrent acts of sin. This body was condemned since birth by the sin of Adam and the sin that we committed in our past life before coming to Christ. We live in a sin fallen world, and our bodies are tainted by sin. It does not mean that one cannot crucify the affections of and lusts. In fact, try reading Galatians 5:24 sometime.
You see what you want to see. While John and Paul admitted that believers could sin on occasion, they also told them to stop sinning (i.e. mortal sin) by the use of other words. Paul said the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God and he listed various sins attached to that warning (Galatians 5:19-21). Paul told us that if we live after the flesh (sin), we will die, but if we put to death the misdeeds of the body, we shall live (live eternally) (Romans 8:13). In 2 Corinthians 7:1, it says let us cleanse ourselves from all filthiness of the flesh and spirit perfecting holiness in the fear of God. However, you don't believe that. The apostle John tells us to “sin not.” (1 John 2:1). Yet, you believe that such instruction by John is impossible.
Side Note: For the topic of this conversation I am referring to mortal sin and not non-mortal sin. I say this because Sinless Perfection (Which I believe is dealing with putting away non-mortal sin) is another topic that is not allowed in this section of the forums.
Then you are ripping this verse out of context to fit a belief you find more comforting.
Verses 12-13 makes it clear that he was referring to his old life. Verse 13 makes it clear that he was before a blasphemer, and a persecutor, etc.
12 “And I thank Christ Jesus our Lord, who hath enabled me, for that he counted me faithful, putting me into the ministry;
13 Who was before a blasphemer, and a persecutor, and injurious: but I obtained mercy, because I did itignorantly in unbelief.
14 And the grace of our Lord was exceeding abundant with faith and love which is in Christ Jesus.
15 This is a faithful saying, and worthy of all acceptation, that Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners; of whom I am chief.” (1 Timothy 1:15).
In fact, Jesus came to save sinners. Save them from what? He said he was a physician. Physicians are to heal. So if they are not healed of their sinful condition, then He would not be a very good doctor. For sin is the sickeness. For you fail to understand that the reason Christ died for us is so as to cleanse us with the washing of the water of the Word in order to present to Himself a church that is holy, and without spot or blemish (See: Ephesians 5:25-27). Jesus called sinners to repentance. Jesus said repent or perish.
But it's simply not the way of the Bible. It's just a measuring stick of doing less evil. The problem is that you believe that God can agree with a believer's sin. For in your view: God will save them despite what evil they do. But God cannot agree with a person's thinking in doing evil. God is holy and just, and good.
You can only be condemned by what the Bible specifically condemns. Not sure if you ever remember reading John 12:48 before, but it basically says that if we do not receive Christ's words, those very words will judge us on the last day. What words can judge us? Words like Matthew 5:28-30, Matthew 6:15, etc.
As for your talk of being lukewarm: This is actually a point for Conditional Salvation and not Unconditional Salvation or Once Saved Always Saved. The warnings in Revelation were given to these churches so that they might repent. If they were Once Saved Always Saved, then there would be no need to warn these churches to repent who were not right with God.
First, Paul says be not deceived. The unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God (See: 1 Corinthians 6:9-10).
Second, it says to cast out this fornicating believer in whom God will judge outside of the church body.
Note: If they are not in the church body, that means they are no longer a part of the body of Christ and hence, they are not saved. For the context says:
11 “But now I have written unto you not to keep company, if any man that is called a brother be a fornicator, or covetous, or an idolater, or a railer, or a drunkard, or an extortioner; with such an one no not to eat.
12 For what have I to do to judge them also that are without? do not ye judge them that are within?
13 But them that are without God judgeth. Therefore put away from among yourselves that wicked person.” (1 Corinthians 5:11-13).
They are not to have fellowship with the fornicating believer. They are to put away this wicked person out from among them. God judges those who are outside the body.
Three, “may be saved" does NOT mean "is saved now."
“To deliver such an one unto Satan for the destruction of the flesh, that the spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord Jesus.” (1 Corinthians 5:5).
The destruction of the flesh by Satan is to get the believer to repent so that they can be saved again, and so that they might endure to the end in their salvation till death (Which then leads to the day of the Lord Jesus Christ and his final salvation of our souls).
I can say with some certainty that you, and that preacher, have both sinned within this last week, if not today.
Only the Lord knows my heart and life. Besides, it's not about the preacher or myself. One person's life is not the standard or measuring stick. The Word of God is. I will have to stand before the Lord and give account to Him just as you will. It's what the Word of God says. I am not above the Word anymore than you are. It's a biblical fact that if we do not obey the words of Jesus, there is no eternal life. For starters, just try reading Matthew 7:26-27, and Acts of the Apostles 3:23.
Here's a solid explanation from St. Augustine:
The garment that is required is in the heart, not on the body, for if it had been put on externally, it could not have been concealed even from the servants. But what is the wedding garment that must be put on? We learn it from these words, “May your priests be clothed with righteousness” (Ps 132:9). It is of that garment of righteousness that the apostle speaks when he says, “Because when we are clothed, we are not found naked” (2 Cor 9:3). In this way the unprepared man was discovered by the Lord of the feast, interrogated, bound and thrown out, one from among the many.
He goes on to say:
What is that wedding garment, then? This is the wedding garment: “The goal of this command is charity,” says the apostle, “which comes from a pure heart and a good conscience and a sincere faith” (1 Tim 1:5). This is the wedding garment. Not charity of any kind whatever—for very often they who are partakers together of an evil conscience seem to love one another. Those who commit robberies together, who love the destructive arts of witchcraft, and who go to the coliseum together and join together in the shout of the chariot race or the wild beast fight—these too in some sense very often may be said to love one another.
But in these is no charity from a pure heart, a good conscience and a faith unfeigned. The wedding garment is charity such as this: “Though I speak with the tongues of men and of angels and have not charity, I have become like a sounding brass and a tinkling cymbal” (1 Cor 13:1). Suppose someone who speaks in tongues comes in and is asked, “How did you get in here without a wedding garment?”
Suppose he answers, “But I have the gift of prophecy and understand all mysteries and all knowledge, and I have all faith, so that I could remove mountains.” But if he has no charity, he has nothing. Such may be the clothing of those who in fact lack the wedding garment. “Though,” he says, “I have all these and have not (the love of) Christ, I am nothing.” Is then “the gift of prophecy” nothing? Is then “the knowledge of mysteries” nothing? It is not that these are nothing. But “I, if I have them, and have not charity, am nothing” (1 Cor 13:2).
(SERMON 90.4; 90.6)
He was tossed out because he came to the wedding as a 'wedding crasher'. He didn't come in as a guest like all the other people did.
The crasher would be like someone who thinks that his good lifestyle is his way to heaven. God will toss him out because Jesus is the real way to heaven (he is the way, the truth and the life). Jesus gives you that wedding garment but only if you enter in through him.
Here's a solid explanation from St. Augustine:
The garment that is required is in the heart, not on the body, for if it had been put on externally, it could not have been concealed even from the servants. But what is the wedding garment that must be put on? We learn it from these words, “May your priests be clothed with righteousness” (Ps 132:9). It is of that garment of righteousness that the apostle speaks when he says, “Because when we are clothed, we are not found naked” (2 Cor 9:3). In this way the unprepared man was discovered by the Lord of the feast, interrogated, bound and thrown out, one from among the many.
He goes on to say:
What is that wedding garment, then? This is the wedding garment: “The goal of this command is charity,” says the apostle, “which comes from a pure heart and a good conscience and a sincere faith” (1 Tim 1:5). This is the wedding garment. Not charity of any kind whatever—for very often they who are partakers together of an evil conscience seem to love one another. Those who commit robberies together, who love the destructive arts of witchcraft, and who go to the coliseum together and join together in the shout of the chariot race or the wild beast fight—these too in some sense very often may be said to love one another.
But in these is no charity from a pure heart, a good conscience and a faith unfeigned. The wedding garment is charity such as this: “Though I speak with the tongues of men and of angels and have not charity, I have become like a sounding brass and a tinkling cymbal” (1 Cor 13:1). Suppose someone who speaks in tongues comes in and is asked, “How did you get in here without a wedding garment?”
Suppose he answers, “But I have the gift of prophecy and understand all mysteries and all knowledge, and I have all faith, so that I could remove mountains.” But if he has no charity, he has nothing. Such may be the clothing of those who in fact lack the wedding garment. “Though,” he says, “I have all these and have not (the love of) Christ, I am nothing.” Is then “the gift of prophecy” nothing? Is then “the knowledge of mysteries” nothing? It is not that these are nothing. But “I, if I have them, and have not charity, am nothing” (1 Cor 13:2).
(SERMON 90.4; 90.6)
“But put ye on the Lord Jesus Christ, and make not provision for the flesh, to fulfil the lusts thereof.” (Romans 13:14) (KJB).
“Rather, clothe yourselves with the Lord Jesus Christ, and do not think about how to gratify the desires of the flesh.” (Romans 13:14) (NIV).
“I am the vine, ye are the branches: He that abideth in me, and I in him, the same bringeth forth much fruit: for without me ye can do nothing.” (John 15:5).
The fine linen that the saints wore in following Christ into battle at His second coming is the righteousness of the saints.
“And to her was granted that she should be arrayed in fine linen, clean and white: for the fine linen is the righteousness of saints.” (Revelation 19:8).
So the wedding garment in Matthew 22 in the Parable of the Wedding Banquet is symbolic of living holy or righteously. For Paul says to be not deceived that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God (See: 1 Corinthians 6:9-10). For 1 John 3:10 says,
“In this the children of God are manifest, and the children of the devil: whosoever doeth not righteousness is not of God, neither he that loveth not his brother.” (1 John 3:10).
“But put ye on the Lord Jesus Christ, and make not provision for the flesh, to fulfil the lusts thereof.” (Romans 13:14) (KJB).
“Rather, clothe yourselves with the Lord Jesus Christ, and do not think about how to gratify the desires of the flesh.” (Romans 13:14) (NIV).
“I am the vine, ye are the branches: He that abideth in me, and I in him, the same bringeth forth much fruit: for without me ye can do nothing.” (John 15:5).
The fine linen that the saints wore in following Christ into battle at His second coming is the righteousness of the saints.
“And to her was granted that she should be arrayed in fine linen, clean and white: for the fine linen is the righteousness of saints.” (Revelation 19:8).
So the wedding garment in Matthew 22 in the Parable of the Wedding Banquet is symbolic of living holy or righteously. For Paul says to be not deceived that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God (See: 1 Corinthians 6:9-10). For 1 John 3:10 says,
“In this the children of God are manifest, and the children of the devil: whosoever doeth not righteousness is not of God, neither he that loveth not his brother.” (1 John 3:10).
Here's a solid explanation from St. Augustine:
The garment that is required is in the heart, not on the body, for if it had been put on externally, it could not have been concealed even from the servants. But what is the wedding garment that must be put on? We learn it from these words, “May your priests be clothed with righteousness” (Ps 132:9). It is of that garment of righteousness that the apostle speaks when he says, “Because when we are clothed, we are not found naked” (2 Cor 9:3). In this way the unprepared man was discovered by the Lord of the feast, interrogated, bound and thrown out, one from among the many.
He goes on to say:
What is that wedding garment, then? This is the wedding garment: “The goal of this command is charity,” says the apostle, “which comes from a pure heart and a good conscience and a sincere faith” (1 Tim 1:5). This is the wedding garment. Not charity of any kind whatever—for very often they who are partakers together of an evil conscience seem to love one another. Those who commit robberies together, who love the destructive arts of witchcraft, and who go to the coliseum together and join together in the shout of the chariot race or the wild beast fight—these too in some sense very often may be said to love one another.
But in these is no charity from a pure heart, a good conscience and a faith unfeigned. The wedding garment is charity such as this: “Though I speak with the tongues of men and of angels and have not charity, I have become like a sounding brass and a tinkling cymbal” (1 Cor 13:1). Suppose someone who speaks in tongues comes in and is asked, “How did you get in here without a wedding garment?”
Suppose he answers, “But I have the gift of prophecy and understand all mysteries and all knowledge, and I have all faith, so that I could remove mountains.” But if he has no charity, he has nothing. Such may be the clothing of those who in fact lack the wedding garment. “Though,” he says, “I have all these and have not (the love of) Christ, I am nothing.” Is then “the gift of prophecy” nothing? Is then “the knowledge of mysteries” nothing? It is not that these are nothing. But “I, if I have them, and have not charity, am nothing” (1 Cor 13:2).
(SERMON 90.4; 90.6)
Monardo, hey nice scripture here cause I never figured out why the man was tossed outside.
I'm saying that we all still sin, we are not perfect, nobody is, even after being saved.
.. and you believe you never sin.
The fact is that a believer occasionally sins, and has to repent when the Holy Spirit convicts them they need to - but can’t continually sin without repentance and remain in Christ.
So if a believer goes prodigal, and comes back, they never lost their salvation while they were prodigal?
If so, this is a bad message to send to others because it means one can go prodigal again and still be saved.
If you and your wife are having some serious marital problems and you separate for a time while you both take some marriage counseling sessions, you stop being husband to her?
Do you stop being her husband if she raises her voice in anger to you (most certainly a sin against you) until which time she begs your forgiveness and you forgive her?
Or do you only stop being her husband when you draw up the papers and go before the judge for divorce?
The problem is, your God isn't faithful... he's constantly divorcing His wife, multiple times a day if need be, instead of patiently working through any issues in the marriage.
God isn't like that... He is faithful, He is patient with us even when we would think it's undeserved... He is far more patient than we are. And yes, sometimes He allows for a separation without divorcing us.
We are saved by His righteousness, not our own. Any filth on the wedding garment comes from trying to add what God calls your filthy rags, aka your righteousness, onto what is pristine - the perfect work of Christ.
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