what is the sabbath?

[Inquisition]

Can I point out here that any numbering of the Decalogue is artificial?

I'd also point out that there is nothing in the Decalogue, or in the whole of scripture for that matter, that codifies the Sabbath as a day of worship.

Furthermore, There are Sabbaths listed and observed in scripture that do not fall on Saturdays.

 

[NaLuvena]

Can I point out here that any numbering of the Decalogue is artificial?

I agree. However, it's just an aid to help us read and understand the Decalogue, like the dividing of the Bible into chapters and verses.

I'd also point out that there is nothing in the Decalogue, or in the whole of scripture for that matter, that codifies the Sabbath as a day of worship.

True again. The Sabbath was about rest, not worship. It points back to the rest in Creation, and also to the rest in Christ.

Furthermore, There are Sabbaths listed and observed in scripture that do not fall on Saturdays.

True, but the one in the Decalogue is the Saturday one.

 

[NaLuvena]

The only strong evidence for Sabbath day worship that pre-dates the Jewish nation is found in Gen.4:1-4 where Able and Cain presented worship offerings to God. I have never heard anyone say that Adam and Eve and their sons were ignorant of the Sabbath day.

I don't think the emphasis in the Sabbath was on worship, but on resting. In today's Sunday=Sabbath, we have merged 2 practices, the keeping of the Sabbath and the tradition of the early Church to meet and worship on the 1st day of the week.

As far as the Gentiles becoming Christians, I would think that it would have been very confusing to them to be worshipping on the Sabbath day. The 2 religions started out extremely similar to each other- Christianity and Judaism. The Public distinction would have been to worship on differing days.

Wouldn't that make the removal of the Sabbath a human decision instead of a Divine one?

 

[jarrettcpr]

Many are making this more difficult and harder than it really is.

Nadine, you had it right.

Simply put the Sabbath is remembering Jesus and everything he done for all of us.

Below are two articles you can read that may help.

Question: 'How is Jesus our Sabbath Rest?'

Answer: The key to understanding how Jesus is our Sabbath rest is the Hebrew word sabat, which means 'to rest or stop or cease from work.' The origin of the Sabbath goes back to Creation. After creating the heavens and the earth in six days, God 'rested on the seventh day from all His work which He had made'(Genesis 2:2). This doesn’t mean that God was tired and needed a rest. We know that God is omnipotent, literally 'all-powerful.' He has all the power in the universe, He never tires, and His most arduous expenditure of energy does not diminish His power one bit. So, what does it mean that God rested on the seventh day? Simply that He stopped what He was doing. He ceased from His labors. This is important in understanding the establishment of the Sabbath day and the role of Christ as our Sabbath rest.

God used the example of His resting on the seventh day of Creation to establish the principle of the Sabbath day rest for His people. In Ex 20:8-11 and Deut 5:12-15, God gave the Israelites the fourth of His Ten Commandments. They were to 'remember' the Sabbath day and 'keep it holy.' One day out of every seven, they were to rest from their labors and give the same day of rest to their servants and animals. This was not just a physical rest, but a cessation of laboring. Whatever work they were engaged in was to stop for a full day each week. The Sabbath day was established so the people would rest from their labors, only to begin again after a one-day rest.

The various elements of the Sabbath symbolized the coming of the Messiah, who would provide a permanent rest for His people. Once again the example of resting from our labors comes into play. With the establishment of the Old Testament Law, the Jews were constantly “laboring” to make themselves acceptable to God. Their labors included trying to obey a myriad of do’s and don’ts of the ceremonial law, the Temple law, the civil law, etc. Of course they couldn’t possibly keep all those laws, so God provided an array of sin offerings and sacrifices so they could come to Him for forgiveness and restore fellowship with Him, but only temporarily. Just as they began their physical labors after a one-day rest, so, too, did they have to continue to offer sacrifices. Hebrews 10:1 tells us that the law 'can never, by the same sacrifices repeated endlessly year after year, make perfect those who draw near to worship.' But these sacrifices were offered in anticipation of the ultimate sacrifice of Christ on the cross, who 'after He had offered one sacrifice for sins forever, sat down on the right of God' (Hebrews 10:12). Just as He rested after performing the ultimate sacrifice, He sat down and rested—ceased from His labor of atonement because there was nothing more to be done, ever. Because of what He did, we no longer have to 'labor' in law-keeping in order to be justified in the sight of God. Jesus was sent so that we might rest in God and in what He has provided.

Another element of the Sabbath day rest which God instituted as a foreshadowing of our complete rest in Christ is that He blessed it, sanctified it, and made it holy. Here again we see the symbol of Christ as our Sabbath rest—the holy, perfect Son of God who sanctifies and makes holy all who believe in Him. God sanctified Christ, just as He sanctified the Sabbath day, and sent Him into the world (John 10:36) to be our sacrifice for sin. In Him we find complete rest from the labors of our self-effort, because He alone is holy and righteous. 'God made him who had no sin to be sin for us, so that in him we might become the righteousness of God' (2 Corinthians 5:21). We can now cease from our spiritual labors and rest in Him, not just one day a week, but always.

Jesus can be our Sabbath rest in part because He is 'Lord of the Sabbath' (Mat 12:8). As God incarnate, He decides the true meaning of the Sabbath because He created it, and He is our Sabbath rest in the flesh. When the Pharisees criticized Him for healing on the Sabbath, Jesus reminded them that even they, sinful as they were, would not hesitate to pull a sheep out of a pit on the Sabbath. Because He came to seek and save His sheep who would hear His voice (John 10:3,27)and enter into the Sabbath rest He provided by paying for their sins, He could break the Sabbath rules. He told the Pharisees that people are more important than sheep and the salvation He provided was more important than rules. By saying, 'The Sabbath was made for man, not man for the Sabbath'(Mark 2:27), Jesus was restating the principle that the Sabbath rest was instituted to relieve man of his labors, just as He came to relieve us of our attempting to achieve salvation by our works. We no longer rest for only one day, but forever cease our laboring to attain God’s favor. Jesus is our rest from works now, just as He is the door to heaven, where we will rest in Him forever.

Hebrews 4 is the definitive passage regarding Jesus as our Sabbath rest. The writer to the Hebrews exhorts his readers to 'enter in' to the Sabbath rest provided by Christ. After three chapters of telling them that Jesus is superior to the angels and that He is our Apostle and High Priest, he pleads with them to not harden their hearts against Him, as their fathers hardened their hearts against Jehovah in the wilderness. Because of their unbelief, God denied that generation access to the holy land, saying, 'They shall not enter into My rest' (Hebrews 3:3:11). In the same way, the writer to the Hebrews begs them—and us—not to make the same mistake by rejecting God’s Sabbath rest in Jesus Christ. 'There remains, then, a Sabbath-rest for the people of God; for anyone who enters God's rest also rests from his own work, just as God did from his. Let us, therefore, make every effort to enter that rest, so that no one will fall by following their example of disobedience'(Hebrews 4:9-11).

There is no other Sabbath rest besides Jesus. He alone satisfies the requirements of the Law, and He alone provides the sacrifice that atones for sin. He is God’s plan for us to cease from the labor of our own works. We dare not reject this one-and-only Way of salvation (John 14:6. God’s reaction to those who choose to reject His plan is seen in Numbers 15. A man was found gathering sticks on the Sabbath day, in spite of God’s plain commandment to cease from all labor on the Sabbath. This transgression was a known and willful sin, done with unblushing boldness in broad daylight, in open defiance of the divine authority. 'And Jehovah said to Moses, ‘The man shall surely be put to death' (v. 35). So it will be to all who reject God’s provision for our Sabbath rest in Christ. 'How shall we escape if we neglect so great a salvation?' (Heb 2:3).

Question: "Does God require Sabbath-keeping of Christians?"

Answer: In Colossians 2:16-17 , the apostle Paul declares, 'Therefore do not let anyone judge you by what you eat or drink, or with regard to a religious festival, a New Moon celebration or a Sabbath day. These are a shadow of the things that were to come; the reality, however, is found in Christ.' Similarly, Romans 14:5 states, 'One man considers one day more sacred than another; another man considers every day alike. Each one should be fully convinced in his own mind.' These Scriptures make it clear that, for the Christian, Sabbath-keeping is a matter of spiritual freedom, not a command from God. Sabbath-keeping is an issue on which God’s Word instructs us not to judge each other. Sabbath-keeping is a matter about which each Christian needs to be fully convinced in his/her own mind.

In the early chapters of the book of Acts, the first Christians were predominantly Jews. When Gentiles began to receive the gift of salvation through Jesus Christ, the Jewish Christians had a dilemma. What aspects of the Mosaic Law and Jewish tradition should Gentile Christians be instructed to obey? The apostles met and discussed the issue in the Jerusalem council (Acts 15). The decision was, 'It is my judgment, therefore, that we should not make it difficult for the Gentiles who are turning to God. Instead we should write to them, telling them to abstain from food polluted by idols, from sexual immorality, from the meat of strangled animals and from blood' (Acts 15:19-20). Sabbath-keeping was not one of the commands the apostles felt was necessary to force on Gentile believers. It is inconceivable that the apostles would neglect to include Sabbath-keeping if it was God’s command for Christians to observe the Sabbath day.

A common error in the Sabbath-keeping debate is the concept that the Sabbath was the day of worship. Groups such as the Seventh Day Adventists hold that God requires the church service to be held on Saturday, the Sabbath day. That is not what the Sabbath command was. The Sabbath command was to do no work on the Sabbath day (Ex 20:8-11). Nowhere in Scripture is the Sabbath day commanded to be the day of worship. Yes, Jews in Old Testament, New Testament, and modern times use Saturday as the day of worship, but that is not the essence of the Sabbath command. In the book of Acts, whenever a meeting is said to be on the Sabbath, it is a meeting of Jews, not Christians.

When did the early Christians meet? Act 2:46-47 gives us the answer, 'Every day they continued to meet together in the temple courts. They broke bread in their homes and ate together with glad and sincere hearts, praising God and enjoying the favor of all the people. And the Lord added to their number daily those who were being saved.' If there was a day that Christians met regularly, it was the first day of the week (our Sunday), not the Sabbath day (our Saturday) (Acts 20:7;1 Corinthians 16:2). In honor of Christ’s resurrection on Sunday, the early Christians observed Sunday not as the 'Christian Sabbath', but as a day to especially worship Jesus Christ.

Is there anything wrong with worshiping on Saturday, the Jewish Sabbath? Absolutely not! We should worship God every day, not just on Saturday or Sunday! Many churches today have both Saturday and Sunday services. There is freedom in Christ (Romans 8:21; 2 Corinthians 3:17; Galatians 5:1). Should a Christian practice Sabbath-keeping, that is, not working on Saturdays? If a Christian feels led to do so, absolutely, yes (Romans 15:5). However, those who choose to practice Sabbath-keeping should not judge those who do not keep the Sabbath (Colossians 2:16). Further, those who do not keep the Sabbath should avoid being a stumbling block (1 Corinthians 8:9) to those who do keep the Sabbath. Galatians 5:13-15 sums up the whole issue: 'You, my brothers, were called to be free. But do not use your freedom to indulge the sinful nature; rather, serve one another in love. The entire law is summed up in a single command: ‘Love your neighbor as yourself.’ If you keep on biting and devouring each other, watch out or you will be destroyed by each other.'

Matthew 7

21 'Not everyone who says to Me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ shall enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father in heaven. 22 Many will say to Me in that day, ‘Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in Your name, cast out demons in Your name, and done many wonders in Your name?’ 23 And then I will declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from Me, you who practice lawlessness!’

Those who fall short are those who "practice lawlessness" i.e. those who do not follow the Law. Do we want to be in this group on that Day? I think not...

You're very good at only highlighting the last part, but you're forgetting the main part. Which is only he who does the will of My Father in heaven shall enter the Kingdom of God.

Now we must ask what is the will of the Father? It's easy. 'So then they said to him, 'What must we do to accomplish the deeds God requires?' Jesus replied, 'This is the deed God requires – to believe in the one whom he sent.' (John 6:28-29).

All throughout the NT, salvation is as simple as believing Jesus is God in the flesh who died in our place. I don't feel like copying quotes all day long to prove that point, but if you disagree, I can give you a link that will make my case.

Also, it is impossible to follow the law perfectly, there is only one who ever has and ever will.

'There is not a righteous man on earth who does what is right and never sins.' (Ecc 7:20) 'for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God,' (Romans 3:23) 'For whoever keeps the whole law and yet stumbles at just one point is guilty of breaking all of it.' (James 2:10)

Also, 'For as many as are of the works of the law are under the curse: for it is written, Cursed is every one that continueth not in all things which are written in the book of the law to do them. But that no man is justified by the law in the sight of God, it is evident: for, The just shall live by faith. And the law is not of faith: but, The man that doeth them shall live in them. Christ hath redeemed us from the curse of the law, being made a curse for us: for it is written, Cursed is every one that hangeth on a tree' (Galatians 3:10-13)

'For all the law is fulfilled in one word, even in this; Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.' (Galatians 5:14)

All we can do is accept that we are sinners, and thank God Almighty for sending his one and only BEGOTTEN Son do die in our place. After knowing and believing that who wouldn't love God and love others as we love ourselves.

 

[NaLuvena]

Many are making this more difficult and harder than it really is.

Nadine, you had it right.

Simply put the Sabbath is remembering Jesus and everything he done for all of us.

Below are two articles you can read that may help.

Question: 'How is Jesus our Sabbath Rest?'
.....
Answer: The key to understanding how Jesus is our Sabbath rest is the Hebrew word sabat, which means 'to rest or stop or cease from work.' The origin of the Sabbath goes back to Creation. After creating the heavens and the earth in six days, God 'rested on the seventh day from all His work which He had made'(Genesis 2:2). This doesn’t mean that God was tired and needed a rest. We know that God is omnipotent, literally 'all-powerful.' He has all the power in the universe, He never tires, and His most arduous expenditure of energy does not diminish His power one bit. So, what does it mean that God rested on the seventh day? Simply that He stopped what He was doing. He ceased from His labors. This is important in understanding the establishment of the Sabbath day and the role of Christ as our Sabbath rest.

God used the example of His resting on the seventh day of Creation to establish the principle of the Sabbath day rest for His people. In Ex 20:8-11 and Deut 5:12-15, God gave the Israelites the fourth of His Ten Commandments. They were to 'remember' the Sabbath day and 'keep it holy.' One day out of every seven, they were to rest from their labors and give the same day of rest to their servants and animals. This was not just a physical rest, but a cessation of laboring. Whatever work they were engaged in was to stop for a full day each week. The Sabbath day was established so the people would rest from their labors, only to begin again after a one-day rest.

The various elements of the Sabbath symbolized the coming of the Messiah, who would provide a permanent rest for His people. Once again the example of resting from our labors comes into play. With the establishment of the Old Testament Law, the Jews were constantly “laboring” to make themselves acceptable to God. Their labors included trying to obey a myriad of do’s and don’ts of the ceremonial law, the Temple law, the civil law, etc. Of course they couldn’t possibly keep all those laws, so God provided an array of sin offerings and sacrifices so they could come to Him for forgiveness and restore fellowship with Him, but only temporarily. Just as they began their physical labors after a one-day rest, so, too, did they have to continue to offer sacrifices. Hebrews 10:1 tells us that the law 'can never, by the same sacrifices repeated endlessly year after year, make perfect those who draw near to worship.' But these sacrifices were offered in anticipation of the ultimate sacrifice of Christ on the cross, who 'after He had offered one sacrifice for sins forever, sat down on the right of God' (Hebrews 10:12). Just as He rested after performing the ultimate sacrifice, He sat down and rested—ceased from His labor of atonement because there was nothing more to be done, ever. Because of what He did, we no longer have to 'labor' in law-keeping in order to be justified in the sight of God. Jesus was sent so that we might rest in God and in what He has provided.

Another element of the Sabbath day rest which God instituted as a foreshadowing of our complete rest in Christ is that He blessed it, sanctified it, and made it holy. Here again we see the symbol of Christ as our Sabbath rest—the holy, perfect Son of God who sanctifies and makes holy all who believe in Him. God sanctified Christ, just as He sanctified the Sabbath day, and sent Him into the world (John 10:36) to be our sacrifice for sin. In Him we find complete rest from the labors of our self-effort, because He alone is holy and righteous. 'God made him who had no sin to be sin for us, so that in him we might become the righteousness of God' (2 Corinthians 5:21). We can now cease from our spiritual labors and rest in Him, not just one day a week, but always.

Jesus can be our Sabbath rest in part because He is 'Lord of the Sabbath' (Mat 12:8). As God incarnate, He decides the true meaning of the Sabbath because He created it, and He is our Sabbath rest in the flesh. When the Pharisees criticized Him for healing on the Sabbath, Jesus reminded them that even they, sinful as they were, would not hesitate to pull a sheep out of a pit on the Sabbath. Because He came to seek and save His sheep who would hear His voice (John 10:3,27)and enter into the Sabbath rest He provided by paying for their sins, He could break the Sabbath rules. He told the Pharisees that people are more important than sheep and the salvation He provided was more important than rules. By saying, 'The Sabbath was made for man, not man for the Sabbath'(Mark 2:27), Jesus was restating the principle that the Sabbath rest was instituted to relieve man of his labors, just as He came to relieve us of our attempting to achieve salvation by our works. We no longer rest for only one day, but forever cease our laboring to attain God’s favor. Jesus is our rest from works now, just as He is the door to heaven, where we will rest in Him forever.

Hebrews 4 is the definitive passage regarding Jesus as our Sabbath rest. The writer to the Hebrews exhorts his readers to 'enter in' to the Sabbath rest provided by Christ. After three chapters of telling them that Jesus is superior to the angels and that He is our Apostle and High Priest, he pleads with them to not harden their hearts against Him, as their fathers hardened their hearts against Jehovah in the wilderness. Because of their unbelief, God denied that generation access to the holy land, saying, 'They shall not enter into My rest' (Hebrews 3:3:11). In the same way, the writer to the Hebrews begs them—and us—not to make the same mistake by rejecting God’s Sabbath rest in Jesus Christ. 'There remains, then, a Sabbath-rest for the people of God; for anyone who enters God's rest also rests from his own work, just as God did from his. Let us, therefore, make every effort to enter that rest, so that no one will fall by following their example of disobedience'(Hebrews 4:9-11).

There is no other Sabbath rest besides Jesus. He alone satisfies the requirements of the Law, and He alone provides the sacrifice that atones for sin. He is God’s plan for us to cease from the labor of our own works. We dare not reject this one-and-only Way of salvation (John 14:6. God’s reaction to those who choose to reject His plan is seen in Numbers 15. A man was found gathering sticks on the Sabbath day, in spite of God’s plain commandment to cease from all labor on the Sabbath. This transgression was a known and willful sin, done with unblushing boldness in broad daylight, in open defiance of the divine authority. 'And Jehovah said to Moses, ‘The man shall surely be put to death' (v. 35). So it will be to all who reject God’s provision for our Sabbath rest in Christ. 'How shall we escape if we neglect so great a salvation?' (Heb 2:3).

Hebrews 4:1

Therefore, since the promise of entering his rest still stands, let us be careful that none of you be found to have fallen short of it.

The rest you refer to is Jesus, however, we have yet to enter into it.

Hebrews 4:8-11

8For if Joshua had given them rest, God would not have spoken later about another day. 9There remains, then, a Sabbath-rest for the people of God; 10for anyone who enters God's rest also rests from his own work, just as God did from his. 11Let us, therefore, make every effort to enter that rest, so that no one will fall by following their example of disobedience.

While you are entirely correct that Jesus is the rest that the Sabbath points to, we have not yet entered that rest, so we must continue with the "shadow" as the reality has not yet come upon us.

You're very good at only highlighting the last part, but you're forgetting the main part. Which is only he who does the will of My Father in heaven shall enter the Kingdom of God.

Now we must ask what is the will of the Father? It's easy. 'So then they said to him, 'What must we do to accomplish the deeds God requires?' Jesus replied, 'This is the deed God requires – to believe in the one whom he sent.' (John 6:28-29).

All throughout the NT, salvation is as simple as believing Jesus is God in the flesh who died in our place. I don't feel like copying quotes all day long to prove that point, but if you disagree, I can give you a link that will make my case.

Also, it is impossible to follow the law perfectly, there is only one who ever has and ever will.

'There is not a righteous man on earth who does what is right and never sins.' (Ecc 7:20) 'for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God,' (Romans 3:23) 'For whoever keeps the whole law and yet stumbles at just one point is guilty of breaking all of it.' (James 2:10)

Also, 'For as many as are of the works of the law are under the curse: for it is written, Cursed is every one that continueth not in all things which are written in the book of the law to do them. But that no man is justified by the law in the sight of God, it is evident: for, The just shall live by faith. And the law is not of faith: but, The man that doeth them shall live in them. Christ hath redeemed us from the curse of the law, being made a curse for us: for it is written, Cursed is every one that hangeth on a tree' (Galatians 3:10-13)

'For all the law is fulfilled in one word, even in this; Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.' (Galatians 5:14)

All we can do is accept that we are sinners, and thank God Almighty for sending his one and only BEGOTTEN Son do die in our place. After knowing and believing that who wouldn't love God and love others as we love ourselves.

Thank you for pointing that out. If you had read the rest of my posts prior to that reference you made, you'd see that the point I was making was that our faith in Jesus does not absolve us from following the Law.

Jesus, by His death sets us free from the Law of sin and death to follow in His footsteps, to keep the Law, not by our own endevour, but by Christ who lives in us.

After all Jesus said "Be perfect, therefore, as your heavenly Father is perfect." (Matthew 5:48)

Salvation is by grace through faith alone. However, once we are saved, we have to take His yoke upon us.

 

[jarrettcpr]

NaLuvena, I don't fully know or get what you might be saying.

As far as laws/commandments go...

'Teacher, which commandment in the law is the greatest? 'He(Jesus) said to him, 'You shall love the Lord, your God, with all your heart, with all your soul, and with all your mind. This is the greatest and the first commandment. The second is like it: You shall love your neighbor as yourself. The whole law and the prophets depend on these two commandments.' (Matthew 22:36-40).

When Jesus says, 'If you love me, you will obey what I command.'(John 14:15), the above(Matthew 22:36-40) is his commandment(s)(That's including the 10 commandments, and the one about lust and anger; which is adultery and murder in your heart). So, for me I don't follow the Mitzvah(613 commandments).

With regards, to your response about we have not entered the rest. I don't fully get what you're saying(I can be a little slow at things). The point is that the Jews/Hebrews were constantly working and offering up sacrifices that could never clean away their sin(s).

'The law is only a shadow of the good things that are coming—not the realities themselves. For this reason it can never, by the same sacrifices repeated endlessly year after year, make perfect those who draw near to worship. If it could, would they not have stopped being offered? For the worshipers would have been cleansed once for all, and would no longer have felt guilty for their sins. But those sacrifices are an annual reminder of sins, because it is impossible for the blood of bulls and goats to take away sins.

Therefore, when Christ came into the world, he said:
'Sacrifice and offering you did not desire,
but a body you prepared for me;
with burnt offerings and sin offerings
you were not pleased.
Then I said, ‘Here I am—it is written about me in the scroll—
I have come to do your will, O God.'

First he said, 'Sacrifices and offerings, burnt offerings and sin offerings you did not desire, nor were you pleased with them' (although the law required them to be made). Then he said, 'Here I am, I have come to do your will.' He sets aside the first to establish the second. And by that will, we have been made holy through the sacrifice of the body of Jesus Christ once for all.

Day after day every priest stands and performs his religious duties; again and again he offers the same sacrifices, which can never take away sins. But when this priest had offered for all time one sacrifice for sins, he sat down at the right hand of God. Since that time he waits for his enemies to be made his footstool, because by one sacrifice he has made perfect forever those who are being made holy.

The Holy Spirit also testifies to us about this. First he says:

'This is the covenant I will make with them
after that time, says the Lord.
I will put my laws in their hearts,
and I will write them on their minds.'

Then he adds:

'Their sins and lawless acts
I will remember no more.' And where these have been forgiven, there is no longer any sacrifice for sin.' ' (Hebrews 10:1-18)

We can all rest, b/c we no longer have to try and offer sacrifices because Jesus is the ultimate sacrifice, and now we take our rest with Christ Jesus, which is now the Sabbath(For me anyway).

 

[Inquisition]

I agree. However, it's just an aid to help us read and understand the Decalogue, like the dividing of the Bible into chapters and verses.

It can be very helpful except when people become doctrinaire about their usage as many become regarding the numbering of the Decalogue.

True again. The Sabbath was about rest, not worship. It points back to the rest in Creation, and also to the rest in Christ.

Very true. The Sabbath is about rest. It is also true that the sabbath was made for man, not man for the sabbath. Dogmatic insistence specific behavior and/or observances reverse that decree of Christ.

True, but the one in the Decalogue is the Saturday one.

Are you able to prove this?

 

[NaLuvena]

NaLuvena, I don't fully know or get what you might be saying.

As far as laws/commandments go...

'Teacher, which commandment in the law is the greatest? 'He(Jesus) said to him, 'You shall love the Lord, your God, with all your heart, with all your soul, and with all your mind. This is the greatest and the first commandment. The second is like it: You shall love your neighbor as yourself. The whole law and the prophets depend on these two commandments.' (Matthew 22:36-40).

When Jesus says, 'If you love me, you will obey what I command.'(John 14:15), the above(Matthew 22:36-40) is his commandment(s)(That's including the 10 commandments, and the one about lust and anger; which is adultery and murder in your heart). So, for me I don't follow the Mitzvah(613 commandments).

When Jesus was asked that question, He didn't just pull the answer from thin air. He quoted from the Law.

'Teacher, which commandment in the law is the greatest? 'He(Jesus) said to him,

'You shall love the Lord, your God, with all your heart, with all your soul, and with all your mind. (Deuteronomy 6:5)

You shall love your neighbor as yourself. (Leviticus 19:18).

Jesus also said that these 2 Laws, summarise the Law and the Prophets. For us to be able to follow even these 2 laws adequately, we need to read the rest of the Laws, to be able to see the different ways the Law is applied.

If God did not give us His Holy Spirit, this job would be impossible. However, we are fortunate that the Spirit was given to guide/teach us, and Jesus has empowered us to live like this.

What I am getting at is that once we are saved, we should no longer live in sin, but live in righteousness for God's glory. The standard of righteousness is defined in the Law, the fulfillment is Jesus.

With regards, to your response about we have not entered the rest. I don't fully get what you're saying(I can be a little slow at things). The point is that the Jews/Hebrews were constantly working and offering up sacrifices that could never clean away their sin(s).

My point is that the rest you refer to is (according to Hebrews) yet to be entered into, which is why we are warned to ensure that we enter into it.

Why would there be a warning to us to make sure that we enter into God's rest, if we had already entered?

Therefore, since we have not entered the rest, we still have to keep the Sabbath, just as we still have to die once, even though Jesus has promised us eternal life. While the promise is still to be received, the sign pointing to it remains.

For sacrifices, that has ceased for us, because the true sacrifice has already been offered.

'The law is only a shadow of the good things that are coming—not the realities themselves. For this reason it can never, by the same sacrifices repeated endlessly year after year, make perfect those who draw near to worship. If it could, would they not have stopped being offered? For the worshipers would have been cleansed once for all, and would no longer have felt guilty for their sins. But those sacrifices are an annual reminder of sins, because it is impossible for the blood of bulls and goats to take away sins.

Therefore, when Christ came into the world, he said:
'Sacrifice and offering you did not desire,
but a body you prepared for me;
with burnt offerings and sin offerings
you were not pleased.
Then I said, ‘Here I am—it is written about me in the scroll—
I have come to do your will, O God.'

First he said, 'Sacrifices and offerings, burnt offerings and sin offerings you did not desire, nor were you pleased with them' (although the law required them to be made). Then he said, 'Here I am, I have come to do your will.' He sets aside the first to establish the second. And by that will, we have been made holy through the sacrifice of the body of Jesus Christ once for all.

Day after day every priest stands and performs his religious duties; again and again he offers the same sacrifices, which can never take away sins. But when this priest had offered for all time one sacrifice for sins, he sat down at the right hand of God. Since that time he waits for his enemies to be made his footstool, because by one sacrifice he has made perfect forever those who are being made holy.

The Holy Spirit also testifies to us about this. First he says:

'This is the covenant I will make with them
after that time, says the Lord.
I will put my laws in their hearts,
and I will write them on their minds.'

Then he adds:

'Their sins and lawless acts
I will remember no more.' And where these have been forgiven, there is no longer any sacrifice for sin.' ' (Hebrews 10:1-18)

We can all rest, b/c we no longer have to try and offer sacrifices because Jesus is the ultimate sacrifice, and now we take our rest with Christ Jesus, which is now the Sabbath(For me anyway).

The verse you refered to (Colosians 2:17) refers to the physical signs being shadows of the real thing, which is why they are not adequate basis for us to judge others.

However the Law will still stand. Even in Heaven, murder, stealing, adultery etc etc will still be wrong. This is why we are told in Hebrews thus:

Hebrews 10

26If we deliberately keep on sinning after we have received the knowledge of the truth, no sacrifice for sins is left, 27but only a fearful expectation of judgment and of raging fire that will consume the enemies of God.

Why else is the first step to God repentance?

 

[NaLuvena]

Are you able to prove this?

The Jews keep the Sabbath. Also, the 4th commandment, talks about keeping a day for rest, as opposed to the Sabbath festivals that are talked about elsewhere in the LAw.

 

[jarrettcpr]

When Jesus was asked that question, He didn't just pull the answer from thin air. He quoted from the Law.

'Teacher, which commandment in the law is the greatest? 'He(Jesus) said to him,

'You shall love the Lord, your God, with all your heart, with all your soul, and with all your mind. (Deuteronomy 6:5)

You shall love your neighbor as yourself. (Leviticus 19:18).

Jesus also said that these 2 Laws, summarise the Law and the Prophets. For us to be able to follow even these 2 laws adequately, we need to read the rest of the Laws, to be able to see the different ways the Law is applied.

I'm aware of that fact, as Jesus also used scripture when Satan was tempting him in the desert.

If God did not give us His Holy Spirit, this job would be impossible. However, we are fortunate that the Spirit was given to guide/teach us, and Jesus has empowered us to live like this.

What I am getting at is that once we are saved, we should no longer live in sin, but live in righteousness for God's glory. The standard of righteousness is defined in the Law, the fulfillment is Jesus.

I agree, we're suppose to be dead to sin, but that doesn't mean we will not keep on sinning throughout our life-time. For when Jesus said, 'Be perfect, therefore, as your heavenly Father is perfect.' (Matthew 5:48) We should try to be perfect, but when he was saying this, people didn't have the Holy Spirit to help guide them since we were given the Holy Spirit after Jesus' death and resurrection (correct)?

My point is that the rest you refer to is (according to Hebrews) yet to be entered into, which is why we are warned to ensure that we enter into it.

Why would there be a warning to us to make sure that we enter into God's rest, if we had already entered?

Therefore, since we have not entered the rest, we still have to keep the Sabbath, just as we still have to die once, even though Jesus has promised us eternal life. While the promise is still to be received, the sign pointing to it remains.

I'm still not fully understanding your definition of rest and the Sabbath. All we Christians have is rest, b/c we no longer; unlike the Jews/Hebrews, have to keep offering sacrifices. So, we find our rest in Jesus, who is the 'Lord of the Sabbath'.

The verse you refered to (Colosians 2:17) refers to the physical signs being shadows of the real thing, which is why they are not adequate basis for us to judge others.

Well, we're never suppose to judge others.

However the Law will still stand. Even in Heaven, murder, stealing, adultery etc etc will still be wrong. This is why we are told in Hebrews thus:

Hebrews 10

26If we deliberately keep on sinning after we have received the knowledge of the truth, no sacrifice for sins is left, 27but only a fearful expectation of judgment and of raging fire that will consume the enemies of God.

Yes, in heaven, IMO before we go even though I don't believe in a place called purgatory, I do believe in a process called purging. Whereby any desire to sin, would be taken away from us. Therefore there would be no stealing, killing, and etc. in heaven.

I'll hear some people who'll have big gaps in how they interpret Hebrews 10:19-39. I myself haven't studied up on it, to see what it implies.

Why else is the first step to God repentance?

There's also different variations on the definition of repent/repentance. Some say, it's turning to God, others say it's a seize of sinning, others say it's feeling sorry for sins, then others say it's to change ones' mind. I think all can apply at times, but it makes the best sense to change ones' mind, b/c if you don't do that, then how can one come to understand what Jesus did for the world?

 

[DamianWarS]

I think you guys have missed the point of my discussion and are quoting a million verses about keeping "the law" which apparently means that Christians today can keep the sabbath on a sunday how our culture has dictated it. We certainly do not keep the sabbath as it was back in OT time we just keep a cultured version of it now if we keep it at all.

People have missed the point that we don't even keep the sabbath we keep the Lord's Day which is an anniversary so-to-speak of the resurection of Jesus which is more about worship and fellowship than rest and it is exactly what we do today (or most christians) on Sunday. Some sundays I am more hurried and worked than I am on most days but it is not in the name of the sabbath it is in the name of the Lord's day.

I will confess now I do not keep the sabath I keep the Lord's Day.

 

[NaLuvena]

I agree, we're suppose to be dead to sin, but that doesn't mean we will not keep on sinning throughout our life-time. For when Jesus said, 'Be perfect, therefore, as your heavenly Father is perfect.' (Matthew 5:48) We should try to be perfect, but when he was saying this, people didn't have the Holy Spirit to help guide them since we were given the Holy Spirit after Jesus' death and resurrection (correct)?

Jesus is our sacrifice!!!! If we don't have a sacrifice, then we will have to pay for our sins.

Also, we have to sacrifice ourselves, as living sacrifices, by submitting to God and doing His will.

Just because the real sacrifice has been made does not mean that our part to play in it has been done and we can all rest now. We still have to do what the sinners in the OT had to do - we have to lay our hands on the head of the sacrifice, to transfer our sins to it, so that it can be taken away.

There is more detail on this in Leviticus 3, but the gist is that we have to "transfer" our sins to the sacrifice so that it can be removed.

I'm still not fully understanding your definition of rest and the Sabbath. All we Christians have is rest, b/c we no longer; unlike the Jews/Hebrews, have to keep offering sacrifices. So, we find our rest in Jesus, who is the 'Lord of the Sabbath'.

Jesus is our rest, and He is the Lord of the Sabbath, however the point I'm making is that we have not entered into it, and to think so is dangerous. We are still warned to ensure that we do enter in, that we don't fall short and miss out on this "rest".

And it follows, therefore, that if we have not entered this rest, then the Sabbath must still be in force.

Well, we're never suppose to judge others.

1 Corinthians 6

1If any of you has a dispute with another, dare he take it before the ungodly for judgment instead of before the saints? 2Do you not know that the saints will judge the world? And if you are to judge the world, are you not competent to judge trivial cases? 3Do you not know that we will judge angels? How much more the things of this life!

The admonition Jesus gave is that we must judge fairly. Who goes through life without judging? That person is either lying to himself or deluded. We all judge. When we hear something, we make a judgement based on the source, what we know about the subject matter, and even our "gut feeling" and we act, believe or not based on our judgements.

Yes, in heaven, IMO before we go even though I don't believe in a place called purgatory, I do believe in a process called purging. Whereby any desire to sin, would be taken away from us. Therefore there would be no stealing, killing, and etc. in heaven.

No, on earth!!!

We are told be be perfect here. This is not something that will happen once we reach Heaven, but starts once you believe.

Acts 5

1Now a man named Ananias, together with his wife Sapphira, also sold a piece of property. 2With his wife's full knowledge he kept back part of the money for himself, but brought the rest and put it at the apostles' feet. 3Then Peter said, "Ananias, how is it that Satan has so filled your heart that you have lied to the Holy Spirit and have kept for yourself some of the money you received for the land? 4Didn't it belong to you before it was sold? And after it was sold, wasn't the money at your disposal? What made you think of doing such a thing? You have not lied to men but to God."
5When Ananias heard this, he fell down and died. And great fear seized all who heard what had happened. 6Then the young men came forward, wrapped up his body, and carried him out and buried him.

While God is merciful, it is dangerous to presume that His mercy will pardon all our sins we commit, especially if we do so wilfully after receiving the truth of God.

I'll hear some people who'll have big gaps in how they interpret Hebrews 10:19-39. I myself haven't studied up on it, to see what it implies.

There's also different variations on the definition of repent/repentance. Some say, it's turning to God, others say it's a seize of sinning, others say it's feeling sorry for sins, then others say it's to change ones' mind. I think all can apply at times, but it makes the best sense to change ones' mind, b/c if you don't do that, then how can one come to understand what Jesus did for the world?

All the things you described are one and the same IMO. They're just different descriptions of the same thing.

 

[NaLuvena]

I think you guys have missed the point of my discussion and are quoting a million verses about keeping "the law" which apparently means that Christians today can keep the sabbath on a sunday how our culture has dictated it. We certainly do not keep the sabbath as it was back in OT time we just keep a cultured version of it now if we keep it at all.

People have missed the point that we don't even keep the sabbath we keep the Lord's Day which is an anniversary so-to-speak of the resurection of Jesus which is more about worship and fellowship than rest and it is exactly what we do today (or most christians) on Sunday. Some sundays I am more hurried and worked than I am on most days but it is not in the name of the sabbath it is in the name of the Lord's day.

I will confess now I do not keep the sabath I keep the Lord's Day.

I used to keep the "Lord's Day", until I learnt that what I was doing was not in line with what God commanded. I have changed and now keep the Sabbath.

The whole reason why your thread has evolved into a discussion about keeping the Law, is because the keeping of the Law is the reason why we must keep the Sabbath (at least that is the arguement I was making). As you yourself said, we keep a cultural version of it, that is far removed from what it really was, and I for one, am trying to live the way God wants me to live.

If this is not what you'd like to see here, I apologise and will not continue this discussion here.

 

[jarrettcpr]

Jesus is our sacrifice!!!! If we don't have a sacrifice, then we will have to pay for our sins.

Thank God for that.

Also, we have to sacrifice ourselves, as living sacrifices, by submitting to God and doing His will.

What exactly is God's will? Then they asked him, "What must we do to do the works God requires? "Jesus answered, "The work of God is this: to believe in the one he has sent." (John 6:28-29)

Is that a stretch to say that's God's will, to believe?

Or is God's will following the Mitzvah(613 commandments) the Ten Commandments, The Royal Commandment, or is it all the things that are listed in Webers_Home 'Christianity's Commandments' thread?

Just because the real sacrifice has been made does not mean that our part to play in it has been done and we can all rest now. We still have to do what the sinners in the OT had to do - we have to lay our hands on the head of the sacrifice, to transfer our sins to it, so that it can be taken away.


There is more detail on this in Leviticus 3, but the gist is that we have to "transfer" our sins to the sacrifice so that it can be removed.

We 'transfer' our sins (past, present, and future) when we accept Christ Jesus as our Lord and Savior.

Jesus is our rest, and He is the Lord of the Sabbath, however the point I'm making is that we have not entered into it, and to think so is dangerous. We are still warned to ensure that we do enter in, that we don't fall short and miss out on this "rest".

And it follows, therefore, that if we have not entered this rest, then the Sabbath must still be in force.

The Below article deals with the four most viewed beliefs of the Sabbath.(The Sunday-Sabbath View, The Seventh-day (Saturday) Sabbath View, The Lord's Day View, and The God's Rest Fulfillment View) The latter is most scriptural supported. So, this site below says... The below piece is only a very small portion of the article that discusses some of the things you brought up...

What Is the Christian Sabbath? A comparison of the Seventh-day Sabbath, Sunday Sabbath, Lord's Day, and God's Rest Fulfillment views

Of Hebrews 4:9–10, Unger's New Bible Handbook (p. 588) states:

These verses refer to the rest called sabbath-keeping (sabbatismos, “a state of rest from labor”), [Verse] 9. It involves the believer's resting completely in a perfect work of redemption ([verses] 3–4) as God rested from a perfect work of creation, [verse] 10. This rest of redemption reposes wholly in the work of the cross, and ceases from all self-effort, human merit or legalistic claim as a means either of salvation or sanctification, [verse] 10 (cf. Eph 2:8-10). It projects the victory of faith in conquest over spiritual enemies (the world, the flesh and the devil).​

There is another problem with trying to make Hebrews 4:9 mean that there remains a Sabbath day to be kept. Whatever remains in Hebrews 4:9 for us to enter is what Joshua, in Hebrews 4:8, failed to lead the people into. If what remains to be entered is the keeping of a Sabbath day, then the rest that Joshua failed to lead the people into was the Sabbath day. This, of course, is nonsense. Joshua failed to lead the people into God's true rest because the people did not have faith. The Sabbath day can have nothing to do with this. Joshua's not leading the children of Israel into God's true rest cannot be a reason why we should therefore keep the Sabbath day. Forcing Hebrews 4:9 to be a reference to the Sabbath day makes a hash of the Scriptures.
It is an interesting fact that Hebrews 4:9 is the first place in all literature in which the word sabbatismos is found. It is quite possible that the writer of Hebrews invented the word. Why? Why did he use, possibly even create, sabbatismos instead of using katapausis? Apparently, the writer wanted to not only express that we can through faith enter God's rest, or cease from works, but he wanted to also say that when we enter that rest, it is the true celebration and delight that the Sabbath rest foreshadowed (notice in Isaiah 58:13 that God wanted the Jews to delight in the Sabbath).
Continuing in Hebrews 4:10–11, we read: “For he that is entered into his rest, he also hath ceased from his own works, as God did from his. Let us labour therefore to enter into that rest, lest any man fall after the same example of unbelief.”
If the writer of Hebrews wanted Christians to keep a Sabbath day, he could have clearly said so. But as we have seen, this was not his intention. His intention was to explain that we enter God's rest (of which the seventh-day Sabbath and the land of Canaan were only types) through faith, and we can fail to enter through lack of faith. To continue to rely upon the law by keeping a Sabbath day and to fear retribution if one were to fail to do so are symptomatic of a lack of faith.
The writer of Hebrews was concerned that the Jewish Christians to whom he was writing were wavering in their faith and again taking up their works from which they should have ceased. These verses explain that those who have entered God's rest (those who are in Jesus Christ) must cease from their own works just as God did from His at the end of the Creation week.
So, what is the answer to the question posed in the title of this article? What is the Christian Sabbath? Remember that the Bible says that the Sabbaths were only shadows, but Jesus Christ is the body or substance (Colossians 2:16–17). Jesus Christ, then, is the real Christian Sabbath. Because He was sinless and His righteousness is imputed to us (2 Corinthians 5:21; Hebrews 4:15), and because He died for our sins (Matthew 26:28; 1 Thessalonians 5:9–10), we have our rest in Him. He is God's rest that we enter by faith.

1 Corinthians 6

1If any of you has a dispute with another, dare he take it before the ungodly for judgment instead of before the saints? 2Do you not know that the saints will judge the world? And if you are to judge the world, are you not competent to judge trivial cases? 3Do you not know that we will judge angels? How much more the things of this life!

The admonition Jesus gave is that we must judge fairly. Who goes through life without judging? That person is either lying to himself or deluded. We all judge. When we hear something, we make a judgement based on the source, what we know about the subject matter, and even our "gut feeling" and we act, believe or not based on our judgements.

Yes, I should've said we're only suppose to use righteous judgement. We all judge everyday. The news, the weather, what to wear, and how much water should I give the plants.

We especially shouldn't judge people's souls, and judge people and say what they are doing is sin, and etc. I was saying this with special regards to how people view the Sabbath, and how they view people who either keep or so called don't keep it.

No, on earth!!!

We are told be be perfect here. This is not something that will happen once we reach Heaven, but starts once you believe.

Yes, we can start, but our efforts will be futile b/c we are still flesh. Just read Puals stuff and even he still struggled with sin, so how are we even gonna' be anywhere near 'perfect' until God himself compleltley makes us perfect after our flesh dies.

Acts 5

1Now a man named Ananias, together with his wife Sapphira, also sold a piece of property. 2With his wife's full knowledge he kept back part of the money for himself, but brought the rest and put it at the apostles' feet. 3Then Peter said, "Ananias, how is it that Satan has so filled your heart that you have lied to the Holy Spirit and have kept for yourself some of the money you received for the land? 4Didn't it belong to you before it was sold? And after it was sold, wasn't the money at your disposal? What made you think of doing such a thing? You have not lied to men but to God."
5When Ananias heard this, he fell down and died. And great fear seized all who heard what had happened. 6Then the young men came forward, wrapped up his body, and carried him out and buried him.

While God is merciful, it is dangerous to presume that His mercy will pardon all our sins we commit, especially if we do so wilfully after receiving the truth of God.

The reason they(Ananias and his wife) died is b/c Acts tells us the begginning of the Christianinity movement, and there was absoletely no part for someone who was going to slow it down.

 

[one11]

The Sabbath is from sundown Friday to sundown Saturday, where we are to rest and let all the people that work for us, rest, as well as our whole family.

However, Jesus added it is lawful to do good on the Sabbath.

 

[trialbyfire]

In revelations john says "On the Lord's Day I was in the Spirit..." he is referring to today's Sunday not the sabbath. Some translations/paraphrases will even use the word sunday. The "Lord's Day" is the celebration of Jesus' resurrection and the sabbath is the honoring the day of rest when God finished creating the world and had a day of rest. They are not the same thing so don't believe people saying sunday is just a christian sabbath because they have completely different reasons why they are honored (whether you know them or not).

I don't know what days of the week they called it back in the day but we know Jesus died the day before the sabbath and rose the day after the sabbath which became known as "the Lord's Day" and in today's calendar is Sunday.

When I was a kid I was told I had to dress up to go church or not really do anything else on sunday because of the 4th commandment. But since sunday is not the sabbath and is instead a traditional celebration on the day Jesus rose from the grave how do we observe the 4th commandment? It says in Romans 14:5 "One man considers one day more sacred than another; another man considers every day alike. Each one should be fully convinced in his own mind." You might say that the verse is taken out of context and is referring to the many ceremonies and celebrations the Jews had, not to the sabbath. But I would say the sabbath is part of of those many ceremonies and celebrations especially to a roman to whom the verse was written for.

Technically, the Sabbath is Saturday. We should set aside one day every week to rest, as God said.

 

[NaLuvena]

Thank God for that.

Amen!!!!

What exactly is God's will? Then they asked him, "What must we do to do the works God requires? "Jesus answered, "The work of God is this: to believe in the one he has sent." (John 6:28-29)

Sorry, but the verses you quoted talk about the work of God, which is different from the will of God.

Is that a stretch to say that's God's will, to believe?

Sorry again, but you are still confusing the will of God with the work of God.

Or is God's will following the Mitzvah(613 commandments) the Ten Commandments, The Royal Commandment, or is it all the things that are listed in Webers_Home 'Christianity's Commandments' thread?

Its God's will for us to follow the commandments. This would include the 10 commandments, the Royal commandment, and any other commandment that God would give to you : for example God told Moses "Take off the sandals from your feet, for the land on which you stand is holy ground". That commandment is only for Moses, and not for the rest of us.

Some commandments are only specific to certain positions (priests, kings etc) some are gender specific (women/men), some are only meant for certain times, an d some are general in nature.

Jesus even showed us how the commandments are to be applied, not the way the Jews were keeping them, but the way the Spirit would teach us, by faith.

Now there is the argument that the commandment was given to Israel. Aren't all who believe, part of the spiritual Israel. Paul describes Gentile believers as wild olive branches grafted onto the domesticated olive root. We do not support the root, the root supports us.

Jesus Himself said:

Matthew 5

17"Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them. 18I tell you the truth, until heaven and earth disappear, not the smallest letter, not the least stroke of a pen, will by any means disappear from the Law until everything is accomplished. 19Anyone who breaks one of the least of these commandments and teaches others to do the same will be called least in the kingdom of heaven, but whoever practices and teaches these commands will be called great in the kingdom of heaven.

We 'transfer' our sins (past, present, and future) when we accept Christ Jesus as our Lord and Savior.

True!!!

But you still retain your sins unless this transfer is done to the "sacrifice". When you "accept Christ Jesus as your Lord and Saviour" (I prefer to refer to this as believing in Christ), you accept what He did on your behalf, dying for your sins. You, in effect, accept the sacrifice He made for you.

That is how Christians keep the sin sacrifice from Leviticus.

Of Hebrews 4:9–10, Unger's New Bible Handbook (p. 588) states:

These verses refer to the rest called sabbath-keeping (sabbatismos, “a state of rest from labor&#8221, [Verse] 9. It involves the believer's resting completely in a perfect work of redemption ([verses] 3–4) as God rested from a perfect work of creation, [verse] 10. This rest of redemption reposes wholly in the work of the cross, and ceases from all self-effort, human merit or legalistic claim as a means either of salvation or sanctification, [verse] 10 (cf. Eph 2:8-10). It projects the victory of faith in conquest over spiritual enemies (the world, the flesh and the devil).​

There is another problem with trying to make Hebrews 4:9 mean that there remains a Sabbath day to be kept. Whatever remains in Hebrews 4:9 for us to enter is what Joshua, in Hebrews 4:8, failed to lead the people into. If what remains to be entered is the keeping of a Sabbath day, then the rest that Joshua failed to lead the people into was the Sabbath day. This, of course, is nonsense. Joshua failed to lead the people into God's true rest because the people did not have faith. The Sabbath day can have nothing to do with this. Joshua's not leading the children of Israel into God's true rest cannot be a reason why we should therefore keep the Sabbath day. Forcing Hebrews 4:9 to be a reference to the Sabbath day makes a hash of the Scriptures.

It is an interesting fact that Hebrews 4:9 is the first place in all literature in which the word sabbatismos is found. It is quite possible that the writer of Hebrews invented the word. Why? Why did he use, possibly even create, sabbatismos instead of using katapausis? Apparently, the writer wanted to not only express that we can through faith enter God's rest, or cease from works, but he wanted to also say that when we enter that rest, it is the true celebration and delight that the Sabbath rest foreshadowed (notice in Isaiah 58:13 that God wanted the Jews to delight in the Sabbath).
Continuing in Hebrews 4:10–11, we read: “For he that is entered into his rest, he also hath ceased from his own works, as God did from his. Let us labour therefore to enter into that rest, lest any man fall after the same example of unbelief.”

Hebrews 4:1

Therefore, since the promise of entering his rest still stands, let us be careful that none of you be found to have fallen short of it.

The Rest you are referring to is still a promise. A promise, by definition, is something that has not happened. While the Rest you refer to still remains, it is not here yet, so we are warned to be careful so that we do not fall short and fail to enter said Rest.


From the Amplified Bible:

Hebrews 4:9
So then, there is still awaiting a full and complete Sabbath-rest reserved for the [true] people of God;

The rest you are referring to is still awaiting us. It's reserved for us, because we have not entered into it.

We still have work to do here. The only thing that is guaranteed is our place in heaven, our salvation. What reward we get there is yet to be determined.

So if the rest you refer to has not yet been reached, should we keep the shadow or not? We only stopped sacrificing because God made the ultimate sacrifice of His Son at the cross for us. If Jesus had not died, we would still have to sacrifice bulls and goats.

If the writer of Hebrews wanted Christians to keep a Sabbath day, he could have clearly said so. But as we have seen, this was not his intention. His intention was to explain that we enter God's rest (of which the seventh-day Sabbath and the land of Canaan were only types) through faith, and we can fail to enter through lack of faith. To continue to rely upon the law by keeping a Sabbath day and to fear retribution if one were to fail to do so are symptomatic of a lack of faith.
The writer of Hebrews was concerned that the Jewish Christians to whom he was writing were wavering in their faith and again taking up their works from which they should have ceased. These verses explain that those who have entered God's rest (those who are in Jesus Christ) must cease from their own works just as God did from His at the end of the Creation week.
So, what is the answer to the question posed in the title of this article? What is the Christian Sabbath? Remember that the Bible says that the Sabbaths were only shadows, but Jesus Christ is the body or substance (Colossians 2:16–17). Jesus Christ, then, is the real Christian Sabbath. Because He was sinless and His righteousness is imputed to us (2 Corinthians 5:21; Hebrews 4:15), and because He died for our sins (Matthew 26:28; 1 Thessalonians 5:9–10), we have our rest in Him. He is God's rest that we enter by faith.

When I read Hebrews 4, all I could see was that the writer of Hebrews was saying that the rest was waiting for us, and urging us to make sure we enter into it. He (if it is a "he" ) in no way said that the rest has already been achieved.

If that was so, then the warings about falling short in verses 1 and 11 would not be there.

Yes, I should've said we're only suppose to use righteous judgement. We all judge everyday. The news, the weather, what to wear, and how much water should I give the plants.

We especially shouldn't judge people's souls, and judge people and say what they are doing is sin, and etc. I was saying this with special regards to how people view the Sabbath, and how they view people who either keep or so called don't keep it.

We should judge people!!! Paul is writing to the Corithian believers to tell them that they should judge disputes amongst believers internally within the Church (local Church in Corinth) and not to take those disputes to the "secular" courts.

IF we see someone doing something that is sinful, we are believers should point this out to the offender, to turn him/her from his/her ways and back to God.

James 5

My brothers, if one of you should wander from the truth and someone should bring him back, 20remember this: Whoever turns a sinner from the error of his way will save him from death and cover over a multitude of sins.

Basically, Paul said that as believers would judge the world and the angels, we are therefore capable of judging such matters amongst oursleves.

Yes, we can start, but our efforts will be futile b/c we are still flesh. Just read Puals stuff and even he still struggled with sin, so how are we even gonna' be anywhere near 'perfect' until God himself compleltley makes us perfect after our flesh dies.

The point is, we are not free to follow our whims once we believe in Christ. We have a path to follow, things to do, and we need to start doing them.

Also, why do you say that we will be futile? I agree, no one will be perfected overnight here on Earth, but we are told to start putting the flesh to death, to renew our minds, to walk according to the Spirit, and not to give way to the devil. While we might not reach perfection here on earth, that is no excuse not to start.

We should start, and continue on this, and strive to reach the point Paul reached, when he could see the separation between his spirit and his body, and the conflicting demands that they had. Then, when Christ returns, the body will be put away, and the new body will be given, incorruptible and without sin.

That is when we will be perfect.

The reason they(Ananias and his wife) died is b/c Acts tells us the begginning of the Christianinity movement, and there was absoletely no part for someone who was going to slow it down.

Sorry, I missed that. I thought they died because they lied to the Holy Spirit. Could you provide the scriptures for this reason you give for their deaths?

Basically, the point I was making was that Ananias and Saphirra, had received the knowledge of the truth Hebrews 10 talks about, and fell away.

 

[Inquisition]

The Jews keep the Sabbath. Also, the 4th commandment, talks about keeping a day for rest, as opposed to the Sabbath festivals that are talked about elsewhere in the LAw.

You are aware that the current concept of Judaism is a construct that developed after the rise of Christianity? Rabbinical Judaism is not the same Judaism as was practiced by Christ, or more importantly, it is not the religion handed down to Israel by God.

A question: do you think it matters to God which day of the week we observe as a day of rest?

 

[jarrettcpr]

The post was too long so there are two parts of this post...

1st part

Amen!!!!
Sorry, but the verses you quoted talk about the work of God, which is different from the will of God.

Sorry again, but you are still confusing the will of God with the work of God.

Its God's will for us to follow the commandments. This would include the 10 commandments, the Royal commandment, and any other commandment that God would give to you : for example God told Moses "Take off the sandals from your feet, for the land on which you stand is holy ground". That commandment is only for Moses, and not for the rest of us.

Some commandments are only specific to certain positions (priests, kings etc) some are gender specific (women/men), some are only meant for certain times, an d some are general in nature.

Jesus even showed us how the commandments are to be applied, not the way the Jews were keeping them, but the way the Spirit would teach us, by faith.

Now there is the argument that the commandment was given to

Israel. Aren't all who believe, part of the spiritual Israel. Paul describes Gentile believers as wild olive branches grafted onto the domesticated olive root. We do not support the root, the root supports us.

Jesus Himself said:

Matthew 5

17"Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them. 18I tell you the truth, until heaven and earth disappear, not the smallest letter, not the least stroke of a pen, will by any means disappear from the Law until everything is accomplished. 19Anyone who breaks one of the least of these commandments and teaches others to do the same will be called least in the kingdom of heaven, but whoever practices and teaches these commands will be called great in the kingdom of heaven.

Yes, we should try and follow the commandments, but we have to remember we are saved by Grace through faith in Jesus. No one can perfectly follow all of the commandments and laws, well other than Jesus.

Below is an excerpt from the link I gave you earlier (That mentions all the things you keep writing back on) What Is the Christian Sabbath? A comparison of the Seventh-day Sabbath, Sunday Sabbath, Lord’s Day, and God’s Rest Fulfillment views

[FONT=&quot]Galatians [/FONT][FONT=&quot]2:16[/FONT][FONT=&quot], keeping in mind that Paul is a Jew who uses “we” to mean “we Jews.” “Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified.”[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]“Stand fast therefore in the liberty wherewith Christ hath made us free, and be not entangled again with the yoke of bondage” (5:1). “Christ is become of no effect unto you, whosoever of you are justified by the law; ye are fallen from grace” (5:4). If we try to be justified by the law, we come under its bondage. We fall from the doctrine of grace, no longer believing in justification by faith alone in Christ alone. [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]“For, brethren, ye have been called unto liberty; only use not liberty for an occasion to the flesh, but by love serve one another. For all the law is fulfilled in one word, even in this; Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. But if ye bite and devour one another, take heed that ye be not consumed one of another” ([/FONT][FONT=&quot]5:13[/FONT][FONT=&quot]–15). “Bear ye one another’s burdens, and so fulfill the law of Christ” (6:2). As Christians, we are to keep the law of Christ, which is to love one another. We are enabled to do this when we are born again. “Biting” one another, such as accusing of sin those who do not keep the day you keep, is the real sin. [/FONT]

True!!!

But you still retain your sins unless this transfer is done to the "sacrifice". When you "accept Christ Jesus as your Lord and Saviour" (I prefer to refer to this as believing in Christ), you accept what He did on your behalf, dying for your sins. You, in effect, accept the sacrifice He made for you.

That is how Christians keep the sin sacrifice from Leviticus.

I don't fully get what you're saying (Unless once we believe is when we transfer all our sins; past, present, and future, to the blood of Christ). I don't bring any young flock, bulls, goats, lambs, rams, doves, and etc. when I sin intentionally or unintentionally. We're made righteous when we believe in Christ. There is no need for any further sacrifice payments, deeds, regulations, offerings, and etc. As even you said on your previous post.

Hebrews 4:1

Therefore, since the promise of entering his rest still stands, let us be careful that none of you be found to have fallen short of it.

The Rest you are referring to is still a promise. A promise, by definition, is something that has not happened. While the Rest you refer to still remains, it is not here yet, so we are warned to be careful so that we do not fall short and fail to enter said Rest.


From the Amplified Bible:

Hebrews 4:9
So then, there is still awaiting a full and complete Sabbath-rest reserved for the [true] people of God;

The rest you are referring to is still awaiting us. It's reserved for us, because we have not entered into it.

We still have work to do here. The only thing that is guaranteed is our place in heaven, our salvation. What reward we get there is yet to be determined.

So if the rest you refer to has not yet been reached, should we keep the shadow or not? We only stopped sacrificing because God made the ultimate sacrifice of His Son at the cross for us. If Jesus had not died, we would still have to sacrifice bulls and goats.

When I read Hebrews 4, all I could see was that the writer of Hebrews was saying that the rest was waiting for us, and urging us to make sure we enter into it. He (if it is a "he" ) in no way said that the rest has already been achieved.

If that was so, then the warings about falling short in verses 1 and 11 would not be there.

I was worried this was about salvation. All of this is about 'rewards' and not 'salvation'. So, if I do good deeds and somewhat try and sanctify myself but I do not completely obey all of the commandments, will I lose my 'rewards' or is the only way to keep your 'rewards' is when you perfectly obey the commandments. How does that process work? Keeping your 'rewards' even when none can perfectly follow the commandments? I mean we will slip up, and continue to sin. That's a given.

The author addresses everything you mention. There is only 7 pages to read on that site. What Is the Christian Sabbath? A comparison of the Seventh-day Sabbath, Sunday Sabbath, Lord’s Day, and God’s Rest Fulfillment views

I might not be piecing the article together good enough to make a clear point, so the website will probably be the best choice, if you can, read the 7 pages.

Okay once... again here is an excerpt from that website article.

The Sabbath command in the Old Testament was an enforced rest. But is was a rest that was, as Paul explained concerning the observing of all Sabbaths, only a shadow or type of the reality to come (Colossians 2:16–17). Jesus was the reality or anti type (verse 17). Jesus Christ was as much the fulfillment of the Sabbath as he was the fulfillment of the Old Testament sacrifices by becoming the perfect sacrifice, or of the other laws by keeping them perfectly. [FONT=&quot]
[/FONT]But how was Jesus a fulfillment of a rest? As we just read, Jesus said, “Come unto me, all ye that labour and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest…. and ye shall find rest unto your souls. For my yoke is easy, and my burden is light” (Matthew 11:28–30). Anapausis, the Greek word for “rest” in these verses (Matthew 11:28 contains the verb form, Anapau), is, according to Vine’s Expository Dictionary of Biblical Words, p. 529, “the constant word in the Sept[uagint] for the Sabbath ‘rest’.” As Christians, we are to find our Sabbath rest in Jesus. Because Jesus fulfilled the law perfectly for us, we must stop all attempts to work for our salvation. We must, instead, rest in Jesus. By doing so, we enter God’s true rest[FONT=&quot]
[/FONT]
Another excerpt below...[FONT=&quot]
[/FONT]
Therefore, we whose sufficiency is in Christ, who know that no law keeping can add to the salvation Jesus has bought for us, who know that the eating of certain foods and the keeping of certain days can only be indistinct and temporary shadows, should not allow anyone to judge or condemn us for exercising our freedom from dietary regulations and the keeping of days. Such things prefigured Jesus Christ, our separation through Him from sin, and our rest in Him. Now that the true substance of what these things pictured has come, the shadows have passed away. It is simply not possible for there to any longer be a need to keep days. This shows that even those who say they know they are not adding to their salvation by keeping a day but keep it to please God do err. Why should God be pleased with our keeping a shadow when the reality has come?

 

[jarrettcpr]

2nd part of my post

Another excerpt below...

Hebrews 3 and 4: These chapters of Hebrews are often used to justify the keeping of a Sabbath day. In fact, as we will see, this was very far from the writer’s intent.
Although we do not know for sure who wrote Hebrews, it is obvious from the topics covered that the letter was addressed to Jewish Christians. In fact, the letter contains so much concerning the Old Covenant, the priesthood, and the temple, that it might have been directed specifically at converts to Christianity from the priesthood (see Acts 6:7). The writer specifically wants to emphasize the supremacy of Jesus Christ over the prophets, angels, Moses, and the Aaronic priesthood; the strength of grace over the weakness of the law; and the substitution of the New Covenant for the Old Covenant.
Hebrews 3 starts by pointing out the superiority of Jesus Christ over Moses. With this comparison in view, the writer then (beginning in verse 7) brings out a parallel between the Israelites entering the land of Canaan and Christians entering God’s true rest. The Israelites hardened their hearts and “could not enter in because of unbelief” (verse 19). Verse 12 warns, “Take heed, brethren, lest there be in any of you an evil heart of unbelief, in departing from the living God.”
The warning is repeated in Hebrews 4:1, with the additional information that we still have a promise of entering God’s rest: “Let us therefore fear, lest, a promise being left us of entering into his rest, any of you should seem to come short of it.” Verse 2 explains that the Gospel did not profit the Israelites because they did not have faith. “For we,” verse 3 continues, “which have believed do enter into rest, as he said, As I have sworn in my wrath, if they shall enter into my rest: although the works were finished from the foundation of the world.” The King James Version translates the latter part of this verse somewhat confusingly. It is a quote of Psalm 95:11, which says, “Unto whom I sware in my wrath that they should not enter into my rest.” Other versions, such as the New King James Version, translate the latter part of Hebrews 4:3 as, “‘So I swore in My wrath, They shall not enter My rest,’ although the works were finished from the foundation of the world.” In other words, although God rested at Creation thereby showing that His rest was already a reality, He swore that the Israelites would not enter that rest because of their unbelief. But we who believe, the first part of the verse says, do enter that rest. Verse 4 simply points out God’s rest in Genesis 2:2.
Verses 5–9 are the pivotal verses. Verse 5 again quotes Psalm 95:11; the Israelites did not enter God’s rest. Therefore, points out verse 6, since it remains that some must enter God’s rest, and those to whom it was first preached did not enter, then God designated another day [meaning time, not a 24 hour day] by saying through David (in Psalm 95:7–8), “To day if ye will hear his voice, harden not your hearts.” In other words, since the children of Israel under Moses refused to enter God’s rest, typified by their refusal to enter the land of Canaan, God is calling others into His rest, as can be seen in the words of David many years after Moses. Of course, God decreed from eternity that all of this would occur. It did not catch Him by surprise. Nevertheless, from our perspective, we see this time sequence of the Israelites refusing to enter God’s rest and God, then, calling others into His rest.
Now it might be argued that the next generation of Israelites did, after forty years of wandering in the wilderness, eventually enter the land of Canaan under the leadership of Joshua. But Hebrews 4:8 explains that, by the physical entering into the land, they still did not enter God’s true rest: “For if Jesus [Joshua] had given them rest, then would he not afterward have spoken of another day.” Bible commentators and modern Bible versions agree that “Jesus” in the King James Version of this verse is really a reference to Joshua (the names are the same in Greek). So, God speaks of another time for people to enter His rest. “There remaineth therefore a rest to the people of God” (verse 9).
It should be pointed out that, with the exception of verse 9, the word “rest” in these verses has been translated from the Greek word katapausis. This word means a causing to cease. In Greek literature, it is used when someone stops and puts down his work. The word, as it is used in these verses that we have examined, is defined right in Hebrews 4, in verse 10: “For he that is entered into his rest [katapausis], he also hath ceased from his own works, as God did from his.” So, the writer of Hebrews is using katapausis to mean to cease from one’s own works, as God did from His.
The children of Israel did not cease from their own works because they did not have the faith to trust God. But we who have faith can cease from our own works, thereby entering God’s rest. But we must learn from the Israelites’ example of faithlessness. If we do not cease from our own works, we show a lack of faith and cannot enter God’s rest.
In Hebrews 4:9, we read, “There remaineth therefore a rest to the people of God.” Many writers have said that this means Christians are to continue keeping the Sabbath day (either seventh-day or Sunday, depending on the writer). But, in fact, the keeping of a day according to the Law of Moses is completely contrary to the message the writer of Hebrews was trying to convey.

We should judge people!!! Paul is writing to the Corithian believers to tell them that they should judge disputes amongst believers internally within the Church (local Church in

Corinth) and not to take those disputes to the "secular" courts.

IF we see someone doing something that is sinful, we are believers should point this out to the offender, to turn him/her from his/her ways and back to God.

James 5

My brothers, if one of you should wander from the truth and someone should bring him back, 20remember this: Whoever turns a sinner from the error of his way will save him from death and cover over a multitude of sins.

Basically, Paul said that as believers would judge the world and the angels, we are therefore capable of judging such matters amongst oursleves.

Yes, I'm aware of that verse and know one can judge, a righteous judgement, but for me I refrain from judging. I always keep in mind the measure you use will be used against you. Though of course if I see something blatantly wrong, I will try and tell them you shouldn't do that.

The point is, we are not free to follow our whims once we believe in Christ. We have a path to follow, things to do, and we need to start doing them.

Also, why do you say that we will be futile? I agree, no one will be perfected overnight here on Earth, but we are told to start putting the flesh to death, to renew our minds, to walk according to the Spirit, and not to give way to the devil. While we might not reach perfection here on earth, that is no excuse not to start.

We should start, and continue on this, and strive to reach the point Paul reached, when he could see the separation between his spirit and his body, and the conflicting demands that they had. Then, when Christ returns, the body will be put away, and the new body will be given, incorruptible and without sin.

That is when we will be perfect.

Well, yes we have 'things' to do when we believe in Christ. At the same time it's very individualistic. The one thing we have to do is "For all the law is fulfilled in one word, even in this; Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself" (Galatians 5:14)

I say it's futile becuase it is. It can't completly be done. Like a health nut who works out all the time, who eats healthy, and etc. I don't like to tell that person, but you're efforts are futile. You will die one day. Now, that doesn't mean we don't have to work out and not eat healthy. Just a point, that I'm sure you can understand. God will make us perfect.

Sorry, I missed that. I thought they died because they lied to the Holy Spirit. Could you provide the scriptures for this reason you give for their deaths?

Basically, the point I was making was that Ananias and Saphirra, had received the knowledge of the truth Hebrews 10 talks about, and fell away.

I saw the bolded part, that they lied to the Holy Spirit, but the notes in my Bible also says, "The Sin Ananias and Sapphira committed was not stinginess or holding back part of the money, nor was it their choice on whether to sell the land and how much to give. Their sin was was lying to God and God's people.... This act was judged harshly b/c dishonesty, greed, and covetousness was destructuve in a church, preventing the Holy Spirit from working effectively. All lying is bad, but when we lie to try to deceive God and his people about our relationship with him, we destroy our testimony about Christ."

So, simply to say they lied to God is why they were killed is an over simplified version.

Thanks for the debate. I like the fact no harsh words are being used, and like the fact it's not over-heated and etc.

If you can view that link, and see what you think. It's pretty good. http://www.wordofhisgrace.org/christiansabbath.html