What is the rock being referred to in Matthew 16:18

[timothyu]

Peter (small stone pebble etc) God BIG ROCK

The ol' block always overrides we small chips. God's will over man's. The whole point of the Bible from start to finish. Man just refuses to catch on.

 

[Albion]

No, because there would be no precedent for it. I just showed you how Christ was known to have used present examples when talking about himself,...

And in my post I referred to almost anything being a possible interpretation.

If you had employed that argument with regard to his claim that he could rebuild the temple in three days, then the only conclusion you could reach was that he was actually talking about the physical building,...

Did he speak to the temple in that case, make reference to the name he himself had given the temple, and tell the temple what important new assignment was being given to it? Well, no.

 

[Norbert L]

I believe they were by the massif at Caesarea Philippi when Jesus spoke these words.

Yes, it has a rather interesting historical and biblical OT association with the 'gates of hell'. Dr. Heiser explains it in little over 6 plus minutes. I find it informative and I'm not sure if there are any flaws in his line of reasoning?

 

[Randy777]

What is the rock being referred to in Matthew 16:18?

. While Peter was a faithful Apostle He was not alone in what He did.
I think on this truth He built His church
Simon Peter answered, “You are the Messiah, the Son of the living God.”

 

[Danthemailman]

What is the rock in Matthew 16:18? | GotQuestions.org

 

[Jamdoc]

It really doesn't make sense that it could refer to anyone or anything other than Peter, to whom Christ was speaking.

That doesn't mean that all the theories which have flowed from this conversation are correct, but the answer to your question, as asked, does seem definitely to be "Peter."

greek wordplay. Petros, a little pebble "ye of little faith", compared to Petra the boulder that His church was built on, was the confession Peter made.
The foundation of the church is not a man who denied Christ 3 times publicly in one night.

 

[concretecamper]

Oh, I see. So the "church" only consists of who you approve of. Got it.

please follow along. I didnt assume any such thing.

 

[concretecamper]

Stick with your history. I'll stick with scripture.

stick with your version of history.

 

[BrotherJJ]

What is the rock being referred to in Matthew 16:18?

A spiritual foundation laid via FAITH/belief

 

[The Liturgist]

Almost all Christians aside from a few people who seem to want to define doctrine in opposition to Roman Catholicism will agree with @Albion on this point. The rock is Peter, and by extension the other Apostles of whom he was the servant-leader.

 

[Albion]

The foundation of the church is not a man who denied Christ 3 times publicly in one night.

and yet, Peter was the one who caused the conversion of 3000 people on Pentecost with a miracle by which people of different languages heard his sermon in their own tongues. This was only days after the event described in Matthew that we have been discussing. There's nothing about that which shows any brush-off of Peter by Christ.

That event on Pentecost was the start of the mass conversions to the church of Christ which the conversation about the foundation of a church and the gates of hell not prevailing against it, etc. had been about.

 

[mlepfitjw]

So did you guys figure it out yet?

 

[topher694]

please follow along. I didnt assume any such thing.

No it was implied. And I notice you ignored my question, or perhaps you weren't following along, about why would God build His church on a satanic foundation?

 

[nolidad]

It really doesn't make sense that it could refer to anyone or anything other than Peter, to whom Christ was speaking.

That doesn't mean that all the theories which have flowed from this conversation are correct, but the answer to your question, as asked, does seem definitely to be "Peter."

Well it appears that way in most English translations. but when you look at the play on words in the greek it becomes very clear that Jesus is referring to the fact that He is the Messiah.

Peter is petros which is a piece of rock or pebble

Rock as jesus said is petra= cliff, ledge, large stone!

So Jesus was saying- Peter you are a chip off the block with what you said!

 

[Davy]

Crazy thread.

Of course Jesus was referring to Peter whom He would use to build the foundation of His Church. It's even history in Rome! I say this and I'm a Protestant! Apostle Paul showed in Ephesians 2 that all of Christ's Apostles are part of that foundation, with Jesus as The Chief Cornerstone. But to whom did Lord Jesus say to that whatever he bound here on earth would be bound in Heaven? Only to Peter (Matthew 16:18-19).

 

[concretecamper]

No it was implied

you evidently dont know me. If I wanted to say something, I would.

And I notice you ignored my question,

you had a question? You never asked me a question. You may have asked someone else.

about why would God build His church on a satanic foundation?

He wouldn't and didn't. Did you get that silly idea from the bible

 

[chevyontheriver]

Crazy thread.

Of course Jesus was referring to Peter whom He would use to build the foundation of His Church. It's even history in Rome! I say this and I'm a Protestant! Apostle Paul showed in Ephesians 2 that all of Christ's Apostles are part of that foundation, with Jesus as The Chief Cornerstone. But to whom did Lord Jesus say to that whatever he bound here on earth would be bound in Heaven? Only to Peter (Matthew 16:18-19).

I think they believe that if they took the Bible literally here they would have to become Catholic. And that would be a fate worse than death to them. So of course they can't do that. This verse scares them. Whether they need to be scared or not is a different matter, but they are scared. So they MUST interpret it away.

 

[Albion]

Well it appears that way in most English translations. but when you look at the play on words in the greek it becomes very clear that Jesus is referring to the fact that He is the Messiah.

Peter is petros which is a piece of rock or pebble

Rock as jesus said is petra= cliff, ledge, large stone!

So Jesus was saying- Peter you are a chip off the block with what you said!

That's not unreasonable...until we get to your conclusion.

It doesn't follow at all from the foregoing info (although it is a charming thought). What you are actually saying is that a bunch of stone chips or pebbles make a good foundation for a major building project.

I am also getting the feeling that people who resent the Roman Catholic Church sufficiently are going to find some way or other to make Jesus' words in that passage NOT be about Peter, because they do not want to give any ground to the RCC's teaching that Peter was made by Christ to be a pope.

That was addressed in my first reply. There is no reason to think that the concept of a Papacy--which developed much later in church history--is implied by anything said between Christ and Peter in this passage.

 

[Davy]

I think they believe that if they took the Bible literally here they would have to become Catholic. And that would be a fate worse than death to them. So of course they can't do that. This verse scares them. Whether they need to be scared or not is a different matter, but they are scared. So they MUST interpret it away.

I'm a Protestant, my ancestors were French huguenots, the first French Protestants that warred against the Catholic Church and had to leave Europe because of it. But Peter representing that 'rock' doesn't bother me. Peter indeed historically was a major head of the Church in early Rome, and he was crucified for it in Rome.

That doesn't mean the Pope is Peter though, and that to be in Christ one must heed the Pope, as Catholics are taught. The office of the Pope actually began centuries later than Peter's day. It happened because the various bishops between Rome and Byzantine vied for supreme authority. So they created the office originally called the "Bishop of bishops". Man did that, Christ didn't.

 

[nolidad]

That's not unreasonable...until we get to your conclusion.

It doesn't follow at all from the foregoing info (although it is a charming thought). What you are actually saying is that a bunch of stone chips or pebbles make a good foundation for a major building project.

I am also getting the feeling that people who resent the Roman Catholic Church sufficiently are going to find some way or other to make Jesus' words in that passage NOT be about Peter, because they do not want to give any ground to the RCC's teaching that Peter was made by Christ to be a pope.

That was addressed in my first reply. There is no reason to think that the concept of a Papacy--which developed much later in church history--is implied by anything said between Christ and Peter in this passage.

That is not what I said at all.

Peter is a stone and Jesus being the Messiah is the ledge rock and upon the ledge rock Jesus would build the church, not off the pebble.

but the Apostles are the master builders according to the corner stone! YOu may not like th eexample, but it is biblical. The foundation which the apostles build on is Jesus is messiah. Everything is built off the fact of Jesus is Messiah, not on the apostles being chips off the ole block.