LDS What is the reward?

[Jane_Doe]

I know they are the word of God, however, where does God state this?

Two ways:
1) Through his apostles/prophets
2) Ask Him yourself.

God is not dead, nor is He mute. He lives and He continues to speak.

 

[JacksBratt]

Two ways:
1) Through his apostles/prophets
2) Ask Him yourself.

God is not dead, nor is He mute. He lives and He continues to speak.

The apostles and prophets are the ones who wrote the word of God for Him. There is nothing, outside of these scriptures, that shows God telling us that these are His word.

As for asking Him myself. Is this not the discernment that I have already applied in dismissing the Book of Mormon?
Based on the accepted canon that thousands of others accept as the God inspired, God breathed, canonized word of God and the contradiction of the theology held in these canon by the Book of Mormon?

You state that you can ask God yourself, yet you don't accept the discernment of several councils of men to do the same, and reach an agreed and ratified conclusion of what should be included in the canon.

 

[toLiJC]

Romans 6
1 What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound?
2 God forbid. How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein?

In the end of a believer's life, what is his reward?

the idea of the true God, the Father, is to work for overall salvation in Him and His Son Jesus Christ, not just to seek salvation for ourselves, so all the Scripture is based on this idea, because to save yourself in the longest possible term means to save all others, for there is an eternal circle of existence and positions of the souls, which is inevitable/unavoidable for everyone - that is why Jesus Christ came to save all humankind, not just some part of it

Blessings

 

[JacksBratt]

the idea of the true God, the Father, is to work for overall salvation in Him and His Son Jesus Christ, not just to seek salvation for ourselves, so all the Scripture is based on this idea, because to save yourself in the longest possible term means to save all others, for there is an eternal circle of existence and positions of the souls, which is inevitable/unavoidable for everyone - that is why Jesus Christ came to save all humankind, not just some part of it

Blessings

Please give me more detail on this "circle of existence". It would be nice to have some scripture to back it up as well.

 

[Jane_Doe]

The apostles and prophets are the ones who wrote the word of God for Him.

And continue to do so.

There is nothing, outside of these scriptures, that shows God telling us that these are His word.

Do you have any Biblical evidence that this was ever supposed to stop? I would submit Paul and Matthias as two examples that God continues to select apostles after Christ's accession.

As for asking Him myself. Is this not the discernment that I have already applied in dismissing the Book of Mormon?

Have you asked God yourself? You've not said so here, nor said you've read it. You've said you believe it was written by an angel, which is factually incorrect, and lead me to assume you've had zero personal experience with this. I apologize if my logic here was faulty.

Based on the accepted canon that thousands of others accept as the God inspired, God breathed, canonized word of God and the contradiction of the theology held in these canon by the Book of Mormon?

You state that you can ask God yourself, yet you don't accept the discernment of several councils of men to do the same, and reach an agreed and ratified conclusion of what should be included in the canon.

If it is your belief to be lead by the popular vote of sinner, I respect your right to believe that, despite the lack of Biblical precedence. I am a disciple of Christ and am lead by Him.

 

[toLiJC]

Please give me more detail on this "circle of existence". It would be nice to have some scripture to back it up as well.

in short, eternity is like a movie, which replays for ever and ever - all its events and scenes repeat in exactly the same way, order and sequence every time it is replayed, only the actors are alternated as to their roles - everyone will be in the place/role/position/personality of any other, one century is 100 years, one millennium is 1000 years, one single eternity(cycle of eternity) is 10000 years or more (only God knows how long exactly it is, i don't say it may not be hundreds of thousands of years), that is why this eternity(cycle of eternity) began 5-6 millennia ago, in the beginning of the single eternity(cycle of eternity) God has to make all the universal creation, and He creates it in six days, then eve and adam falls from grace by sinning, then cain kills his brother Abel, etc. - all these events happen each single eternity(cycle of eternity) in exactly the same way, order and sequence, but not the same souls are always in the same positions/personalities - every soul takes another place/position/personality every single eternity(cycle of eternity), the soul of the Lord, Jesus Christ, was also, serially in the place/positions of the people that judged Him in the court and hurt and killed Him on the cross, albeit only before zillions of previous single eternities(cycles of eternity), which is one of the reasons why He said:

Luke 9:22 "The Son of man must suffer many things, and be rejected of the elders and chief priests and scribes, and be slain, and be raised the third day."

and this is the reason why He said:

Matthew 7:1-12 "Judge not, that ye be not judged. For with what judgment ye judge, ye shall be judged: and with what measure ye mete, it shall be measured to you again... Therefore all things whatsoever ye would that men should do to you, do ye even so to them: for this is the law and the prophets."

i cannot afford to tell you more for now, because i am not sure whether you will be able to bear it all at once

Blessings

 

[Jane_Doe]

in short, eternity is like a movie, which replays for ever and ever - all its events and scenes repeat in exactly the same way, order and sequence every time it is replayed, only the actors are alternated as to their roles - everyone will be in the place/role/position/personality of any other, one century is 100 years, one millennium is 1000 years, one single eternity(cycle of eternity) is 10000 years or more (only God knows how long exactly it is, i don't say it may not be hundreds of thousands of years), that is why this eternity(cycle of eternity) began 5-6 millennia ago, in the beginning of the single eternity(cycle of eternity) God has to make all the universal creation, and He creates it in six days, then eve and adam falls from grace by sinning, then cain kills his brother Abel, etc. - all these events happen each single eternity(cycle of eternity) in exactly the same way, order and sequence, but not the same souls are always in the same positions/personalities - every soul takes another place/position/personality every single eternity(cycle of eternity), the soul of the Lord, Jesus Chrisy, was also, serially in the place/positions of the people that judged Him in the court and hurt and killed Him on the cross, albeit only before zillions of previous single eternities(cycles of eternity), which is one of the reasons why He said:

Luke 9:22 "The Son of man must suffer many things, and be rejected of the elders and chief priests and scribes, and be slain, and be raised the third day."

and this is the reason why He said:

Matthew 7:1-12 "Judge not, that ye be not judged. For with what judgment ye judge, ye shall be judged: and with what measure ye mete, it shall be measured to you again... Therefore all things whatsoever ye would that men should do to you, do ye even so to them: for this is the law and the prophets."

i cannot afford to tell you more for now, because i am not sure whether you will be able to bear it all at once

Blessings

This is an unusual view I have not heard from a non-demon before.

 

[toLiJC]

This is an unusual view I have not heard from a non-demon before.

i also thought so many years ago, but after receiving revelations from the true Lord God i think differently now i.e. in the way He thinks

Blessings

 

[withwonderingawe]

i also thought so many years ago, but after receiving revelations from the true Lord God i think differently now i.e. in the way He thinks

Blessings

It's actually quite Mormon of you;

there is a phrase used 3 times in the Book of Mormon and the twice Doctrine and Covenants which makes a person ponder a lot.

• Alma 7:20
  20 I perceive that it has been made known unto you, by the testimony of his word, that he cannot walk in crooked paths; neither doth he vary from that which he hath said; neither hath he a shadow of turning from the right to the left, or from that which is right to that which is wrong; therefore, his course is one eternal round.
  
  
• 1 Nephi 10:19
  19 For he that diligently seeketh shall find; and the mysteries of God shall be unfolded unto them, by the power of the Holy Ghost, as well in these times as in times of old, and as well in times of old as in times to come; wherefore, the course of the Lord is one eternal round.
  

 

[JacksBratt]

And continue to do so.

I don't believe this. We have great teachers and men of God who guide us through the teachings of the canon. However, I have yet to see any indication that any written word, since, is worthy of anything but reinforcement of what God has given us in the Bible. We do not need anything more. It is enough.

Do you have any Biblical evidence that this was ever supposed to stop? I would submit Paul and Matthias as two examples that God continues to select apostles after Christ's accession.

Of course, you must. Otherwise you B of M is dead before it starts.

Have you asked God yourself? You've not said so here, nor said you've read it. You've said you believe it was written by an angel, which is factually incorrect, and lead me to assume you've had zero personal experience with this. I apologize if my logic here was faulty.

Not everything I do, in my personal relationship with Christ or my prayer life, is mentioned here.

I did not say it was written by an angel. I said the backstory is that of a man, who hid some famous writings and came back as an angel and showed these to Joseph Smith.

The tale is doomed from the start. No matter if man, nor angel showed JS these gold plates.

Like I said in a past post, anyone can make up a rant, keep it close to the biblical account, change a few minor details, tell everyone they were chosen to give this new message from God, through whatever means..... and who can question it, based on your validation process.

If it is new and from God.... why does it always reinforce the original scripture? I'll tell you.... only the Bible is worthy of being the datum for all truth to be held to for accountability. And only the Bible is the complete word of God without need of any additions.

If it is your belief to be lead by the popular vote of sinner, I respect your right to believe that, despite the lack of Biblical precedence. I am a disciple of Christ and am lead by Him.

Truth is not a democracy. If the entire world believed a falsehood, it is still false.

The B of M is just what you said... the popular vote of sinners. Plus, I am especially not going to believe the words of a sinner named Joseph Smith, just because he told a good story.

I am glad that you are a disciple of Christ. Are you lead by Him or Joseph Smith's new and improved version of the Word of God?

 

[JacksBratt]

in short, eternity is like a movie, which replays for ever and ever - all its events and scenes repeat in exactly the same way, order and sequence every time it is replayed, only the actors are alternated as to their roles - everyone will be in the place/role/position/personality of any other, one century is 100 years, one millennium is 1000 years, one single eternity(cycle of eternity) is 10000 years or more (only God knows how long exactly it is, i don't say it may not be hundreds of thousands of years), that is why this eternity(cycle of eternity) began 5-6 millennia ago, in the beginning of the single eternity(cycle of eternity) God has to make all the universal creation, and He creates it in six days, then eve and adam falls from grace by sinning, then cain kills his brother Abel, etc. - all these events happen each single eternity(cycle of eternity) in exactly the same way, order and sequence, but not the same souls are always in the same positions/personalities - every soul takes another place/position/personality every single eternity(cycle of eternity), the soul of the Lord, Jesus Christ, was also, serially in the place/positions of the people that judged Him in the court and hurt and killed Him on the cross, albeit only before zillions of previous single eternities(cycles of eternity), which is one of the reasons why He said:

Luke 9:22 "The Son of man must suffer many things, and be rejected of the elders and chief priests and scribes, and be slain, and be raised the third day."

and this is the reason why He said:

Matthew 7:1-12 "Judge not, that ye be not judged. For with what judgment ye judge, ye shall be judged: and with what measure ye mete, it shall be measured to you again... Therefore all things whatsoever ye would that men should do to you, do ye even so to them: for this is the law and the prophets."

i cannot afford to tell you more for now, because i am not sure whether you will be able to bear it all at once

Blessings

Don't worry about me not being able to "bear" any of it.

I have heard enough.

None of it is Biblical.

Your scriptures prove nothing. It is given unto men "once to die, then comes judgement". No circular recurrences anywhere.

 

[Jane_Doe]

I don't believe this. We have great teachers and men of God who guide us through the teachings of the canon. However, I have yet to see any indication that any written word, since, is worthy of anything but reinforcement of what God has given us in the Bible. We do not need anything more. It is enough.

Again, do you have any Biblical evidence that God stops appointing apostles? Do you not believe Paul or Matthias were apostles?

I did not say it was written by an angel. I said the backstory is that of a man, who hid some famous writings and came back as an angel and showed these to Joseph Smith.

Ah, I misunderstood you. My apologies.

If it is new and from God.... why does it always reinforce the original scripture? I'll tell you.... only the Bible is worthy of being the datum for all truth to be held to for accountability.

Hence why I keep asking you for Biblical basis of your beliefs.

Truth is not a democracy. If the entire world believed a falsehood, it is still false.

Then why do you believe the Creeds?

Plus, I am especially not going to believe the words of a sinner named Joseph Smith, just because he told a good story.

Neither do I

I am glad that you are a disciple of Christ. Are you lead by Him or Joseph Smith's new and improved version of the Word of God?

I am lead by God.

 

[Jane_Doe]

Don't worry about me not being able to "bear" any of it.

I have heard enough.

None of it is Biblical.

Your scriptures prove nothing. It is given unto men "once to die, then comes judgement". No circular recurrences anywhere.

You realize that toLiJC is a Protestant like you?

 

[withwonderingawe]

I am especially not going to believe the words of a sinner named Joseph Smith,

Was not Paul a sinner yet you believe him?

 

[JacksBratt]

You realize that toLiJC is a Protestant like you?

Just because they profess to be Protestant does not mean that they hold the same beliefs as me.

Many Catholics on this site disagree in a major way. Some may say that they hold the view of one type of doctrine but their posts are way out in left field for any doctrine discussed here.

 

[JacksBratt]

Was not Paul a sinner yet you believe him?

Again, Paul was accepted by the people at the time. He has been accepted by the groups that have debated, argued, discussed and agreed as to what is Canon.

I do not, in any way shape or form, hold Joseph Smith in the same light as any of the people who wrote the scriptures of the Canon.
The Bible is accepted, world wide, by far greater theologians than myself, to be the word of God.

So, to be clear, the Bible is accepted as the valid word of God. Nothing written since then is necessary to complete the word of God. Nothing written since can add to content of the Bible and be considered the word of God.
No man is going to convince me otherwise. I will hold no book in comparison to the Bible and certainly not words written by a man who is a self proclaimed chosen one and had a man, turned angel, back from the dead, thousands of years later, to give information that God left out.

God is the same today, yesterday and tomorrow. He has nothing "new" to tell us. We have all the information that we need. I need no more words than what I have.

 

[toLiJC]

It's actually quite Mormon of you;

there is a phrase used 3 times in the Book of Mormon and the twice Doctrine and Covenants which makes a person ponder a lot.

• Alma 7:20
  20 I perceive that it has been made known unto you, by the testimony of his word, that he cannot walk in crooked paths; neither doth he vary from that which he hath said; neither hath he a shadow of turning from the right to the left, or from that which is right to that which is wrong; therefore, his course is one eternal round.
  
  
• 1 Nephi 10:19
  19 For he that diligently seeketh shall find; and the mysteries of God shall be unfolded unto them, by the power of the Holy Ghost, as well in these times as in times of old, and as well in times of old as in times to come; wherefore, the course of the Lord is one eternal round.

yes, there is an eternal cycle, but it may turn out that the soul of our Lord, Jesus Christ, will be a true Lord/Christ time and time again during many more next/future eternal cycles, albeit not for this planet

Blessings

 

[toLiJC]

Don't worry about me not being able to "bear" any of it.

I have heard enough.

None of it is Biblical.

Your scriptures prove nothing. It is given unto men "once to die, then comes judgement". No circular recurrences anywhere.

yes, it is given to the humans to be born and die once in this world during the conditions of sin's reign and within one single eternity(cycle of eternity), i.e. to the souls that are born as humans in this world during the time when sin reigns therein - in principle it is not possible for any soul to be born and die twice or more times within one single eternity(cycle of eternity), and the judgment of every soul is different for every next eternity according to their deeds/works in the preceding eternity(-ies), and there is also an eternity of the single eternities:

Revelation 14:11 (Aramaic Bible in Plain English) "And the smoke of their torment ascends for the eternity of eternities, and there is no rest, day or night, for those who worship The Beast and its Image and for him who takes the mark of its name."

or if the souls can either live or suffer for ever and ever, then they must be indefinitely existing/present/available, otherwise, if their existence/presence/availability can't be for ever and ever, it will not be possible that they live or suffer for ever and ever, and if some souls go into eternal life while others into eternal punishment, then what makes the souls that go now into eternal life more special than the ones that go into eternal punishment - i mean in the longest term i.e. of the eternity of eternities?!, or will it be fair if the ones that may go now into eternal punishment never go into eternal life during all the course of the coming time's infinity?! - what(is there anything that) makes them so bad that they will never inherit eternal life in the longest run of eternity?!

Ecclesiastes 9:2 (NASB) "It is the same for all. There is one fate for the righteous and for the wicked; for the good, for the clean and for the unclean; for the man who offers a sacrifice and for the one who does not sacrifice. As the good man is, so is the sinner; as the swearer is, so is the one who is afraid to swear.",

1 Corinthians 4:7 (NASB) "who regards you as superior?",

1 Corinthians 4:7 (NIV) "who makes you different from anyone else?"

will God be fair if He makes only some and the same souls have abundant and eternal life during all the course of the time's infinity (while others (be) only devoid of it)?!

there must be at least some justice

of course there are many more biblical passages that speak of eternal judgment for everyone, but all in good time

Blessings

 

[withwonderingawe]

yes, there is an eternal cyhe's , but it may turn out that the soul of our Lord, Jesus Christ, will be a true Lord/Christ time and time again during many more next/future eternal cycles, albeit not for this planet

Blessings

Jesus said he can only do what he sees the Father do. We take that to mean hes following in his Fathers footsteps. The father has prints in his hands too.

 

[withwonderingawe]

Again, Paul was accepted by the people at the time. He has been accepted by the groups that have debated, argued, discussed and agreed as to what is Canon.

I do not, in any way shape or form, hold Joseph Smith in the same light as any of the people who wrote the scriptures of the Canon.
The Bible is accepted, world wide, by far greater theologians than myself, to be the word of God.

So, to be clear, the Bible is accepted as the valid word of God. Nothing written since then is necessary to complete the word of God. Nothing written since can add to content of the Bible and be considered the word of God.
No man is going to convince me otherwise. I will hold no book in comparison to the Bible and certainly not words written by a man who is a self proclaimed chosen one and had a man, turned angel, back from the dead, thousands of years later, to give information that God left out.

God is the same today, yesterday and tomorrow. He has nothing "new" to tell us. We have all the information that we need. I need no more words than what I have.

Many people also rejected Paul. And like Paul many people listened to Joseph Smith had the holy Spirit testify to them of the truth of his message.