What is the purpose of the thousand-year reign of Christ?

Davy · Dec 6, 2017

DavidPT said:
2 Peter 3:10 But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.
....

I think where many misunderstand about the consuming fire of 2 Pet.3:10 is not having realized the difference between this present world and the world to come.

The KJV word "elements" in 2 Pet.3:10 is not referring to material matter like chemical elements. The Greek word is pointing to a world time, a world order. Indeed it is about man's works being destroyed off this earth, not literally melting the earth into some asteroid belt.

DavidPT · Dec 6, 2017

Davy said:
Not quite. You are forgetting what Apostle Paul taught about the resurrection in 1 Cor.15.

In 1 Cor.15, Paul showed that to have eternal Life in Christ Jesus, we must go through 2 changes: 1. our corruptible must put on incorruption, AND 2. our "this mortal" (soul) must put on immortality. These are 4 separate Greek words in the manuscripts with four different meanings.

The wicked dead, and wicked alive, will go into the "resurrection of damnation" on the day of our Lord Jesus' return (again, John 5:28-28 reveals this about the wicked dead). The wicked still alive on that day will go through Paul's change no.1 ONLY, because the 'dead' in Rev.20 will still be subject to what death? The "second death".

There is a 1st death (of the flesh) and then there is a 2nd death (not of the flesh). The only TYPE of death remaining after Christ's return will be the "second death" which is to the resurrection body and mortal soul.

So the error you and many others make about the idea of resurrection is NOT understanding that the "resurrection of damnation" is also a resurrection to the "spiritual body" Paul taught, but not unto Eternal Life in Christ Jesus. Thus the real meaning of the "dead" of Rev.20:5 is about still liable to die resurrected souls that will stand in judgment throughout Christ's future Millennial reign (like the synagogue of Satan), and some of them will come to Jesus in that time and be found in the Book at the GWT Judgment, their souls then putting on immortality.

Didn't you guys study what our Lord Jesus taught about being 'born again'? and all the symbolic metaphors He gave for the wicked walking around like dead men? and the idea of the "new creature" Paul taught for those who have believed on Jesus Christ? Our belief on The Father through His Son Jesus Christ involved a literal change in our spirit/soul, especially with The Holy Spirit baptism. This is a real physical change in our soul, and it prepares our spirit/soul to put on immortality when Jesus returns. But the unsaved who refuse Christ Jesus don't have this change in their spirit/soul today, and thus they are 'dead' inside even while alive upon the earth. In Christ's future thousand years, it will be the same type of existence, just not with flesh bodies, but with the spiritual body Paul taught in 1 Cor.15.

I have to admit at least, you make some interesting points. Let me think on it for a bit on what you submitted, and maybe after that I will get back to you on this. Rather than me hastily concluding you are wrong, thus I am right, the typical MO around here.

DavidPT · Dec 6, 2017

Davy said:
I think where many misunderstand about the consuming fire of 2 Pet.3:10 is not having realized the difference between this present world and the world to come.

The KJV word "elements" in 2 Pet.3:10 is not referring to material matter like chemical elements. The Greek word is pointing to a world time, a world order. Indeed it is about man's works being destroyed off this earth, not literally melting the earth into some asteroid belt.

You are correct.

seventysevens · Dec 6, 2017

DavidPT said:
2 Peter 3:10 But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.

This is what the text states, particularily this-----But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night

What I have underlined has to be meaning the initial arrival of the day of the Lord, and that the text indicates the day of the LOrd will initially arrive like a thief in the night. That places the rest of that verse occuring during the initial arriving of this day. But if this verse is instead meaning 1000 years and a little season after Christ has returned, it would have to be understood like such.

But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night a thousand years and a little season after the second coming of Christ; in the which, at that time, the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.

Compared with----

1 Thessalonians 5:2 For yourselves know perfectly that the day of the Lord so cometh as a thief in the night.
3 For when they shall say, Peace and safety; then sudden destruction cometh upon them, as travail upon a woman with child; and they shall not escape.

This text also says the day of the Lord comes as a thief in the night. This has to be meaning the initial arriving of it as well. That makes two day of the Lord rather than one, if your interpretation of 2 Peter 3:10 is correct. As far as I know, no one would place 1 Thessalonians 5:3 a thousand years and a little season after the initial arriving of the day of the Lord per 1 Thessalonians 5:2, so why should anyone place the events in 2 Peter 3:10, in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, a thousand years and a little season after that of the 2nd coming, rather than during the initial arrival of this day instead?

It appears that you misunderstand what I said
Jesus will appear in the clouds with great glory it is at this time that he makes His return to earth , he overthrows the wicked of earth , cast the beast and false prophet into the lake of fire , satan is cast into the bottomless pit and bound in there for the purpose that he cannot deceive the remaining humans on earth that accepted Christ during the Great Tribulation that are the people who will populate the earth during the 1000 year time period that satan is locked away in the pit .

After the 1000 years are over satan is loosed to deceive who he may -apparently God knows some people will Reject Jesus as King and choose to go with satan - just like the 1/3 of angels in heaven were tricked into believing satan would be better than Almighty God - After this is finished then the judgment of the Great White Throne judgment occurs and wicked get cast into the lake of fire
Do you need scripture to support this ? As it is really clear in scripture

Also consider

Isa 51
6 Lift up your eyes to the heavens, and look upon the earth beneath: for the heavens shall vanish away like smoke, and the earth shall wax old like a garment, and they that dwell therein shall die in like manner: but my salvation shall be for ever, and my righteousness shall not be abolished.

2Pete
But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.

11 Seeing then that all these things shall be dissolved, what manner of persons ought ye to be in all holy conversation and godliness,

12 Looking for and hasting unto the coming of the day of God, wherein the heavens being on fire shall be dissolved, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat?

13 Nevertheless we, according to his promise, look for new heavens and a new earth, wherein dwelleth righteousness.

DavidPT · Dec 6, 2017

seventysevens said:
It appears that you misunderstand what I said
Jesus will appear in the clouds with great glory it is at this time that he makes His return to earth , he overthrows the wicked of earth , cast the beast and false prophet into the lake of fire , satan is cast into the bottomless pit and bound in there for the purpose that he cannot deceive the remaining humans on earth that accepted Christ during the Great Tribulation that are the people who will populate the earth during the 1000 year time period that satan is locked away in the pit .

After the 1000 years are over satan is loosed to deceive who he may -apparently God knows some people will Reject Jesus as King and choose to go with satan - just like the 1/3 of angels in heaven were tricked into believing satan would be better than Almighty God - After this is finished then the judgment of the Great White Throne judgment occurs and wicked get cast into the lake of fire
Do you need scripture to support this ? As it is really clear in scripture

I'm in full agreement with you up to this part. Seems to me that the thousand years are basically a repeat of what satan did before he fell. satan knew God face to face, just like those during the thousand years will know God face to face. Yet in spite of that, satan still rebelled against God. In the same way, regardless that these during the millennium will have experienced the physical presence of God, they too, like satan initially did, will rebel against GoD and His government on the earth, somehow thinking they can overthrow it, which plays into the part about the deceiving of them.

When you brought Isaiah 51:6 up, your point was that this is fulfilled after the thousand years, rather than at the time of the 2nd coming?

Davy · Dec 6, 2017

DavidPT said:
I'm in full agreement with you up to this part. Seems to me that the thousand years are basically a repeat of what satan did before he fell. satan knew God face to face, just like those during the thousand years will know God face to face. Yet in spite of that, satan still rebelled against God. In the same way, regardless that these during the millennium will have experienced the physical presence of God, they too, like satan initially did, will rebel against GoD and His government on the earth, somehow thinking they can overthrow it, which plays into the part about the deceiving of them.

When you brought Isaiah 51:6 up, your point was that this is fulfilled after the thousand years, rather than at the time of the 2nd coming?

Not sure in what relation I mentioned Isaiah 51:6, can you direct me to that post?

seventysevens · Dec 6, 2017

DavidPT said:
I'm in full agreement with you up to this part. Seems to me that the thousand years are basically a repeat of what satan did before he fell. satan knew God face to face, just like those during the thousand years will know God face to face. Yet in spite of that, satan still rebelled against God. In the same way, regardless that these during the millennium will have experienced the physical presence of God, they too, like satan initially did, will rebel against GoD and His government on the earth, somehow thinking they can overthrow it, which plays into the part about the deceiving of them.

When you brought Isaiah 51:6 up, your point was that this is fulfilled after the thousand years, rather than at the time of the 2nd coming?

I often use analogies to illustrate a point , that is my reference to the 1/3 of angels in heaven being deceived into believing that satan would be better than Almighty God .

It is not saying scripture in Rev 20 says that it is an analogy of why satan will be cast into the pit then released at a later time so that he is allowed to deceive people that are not satisfied with Jesus as King
satan has been deceiving people and trying to get them to serve him instead of God all through history
The 1000 years is in scripture for a purpose and cannot be denied ,

Isaiah 51:6 up- is just a comparison scripture to 2Peter in that it shows what happens
I watched a Christian astronomer teaching on the earth and atmosphere and he also like other astronomers spoke of the atmosphere as firmament and some versions of scripture use that word in place of elements ,

Truth7t7 · Dec 6, 2017

Davy said:
That is not true, as shown by some who came up against Jerusalem that will survive to Christ's Millennial reign per the end of Zech.14.

The same change at the twinkling of an eye that will occur to the alive saints on earth is going to also happen to the unsaved who alive at that time. This is pointed to in Isaiah 25 where Apostle Paul was teaching from the idea of death being swallowed up.

True, which is what the John 5:28-29 verses are about. (Why must I continually repeat myself on that?)

Those left in Jerusalem are the saved believers that will pass through the last day judgment by fire. The wicked will be caught in the fire for eternity. All men will be judged by the Lords last day fire in judgment, "All Men"!

2 Peter 3:10-13, Zechariah 13:8-9, , Malachi 3:2, 1 Corinthians 3:13-15

DavidPT · Dec 6, 2017

Truth7t7 said:
Those left in Jerusalem are the saved believers that will pass through the last day judgment by fire. 2 Peter 3:10-13, Zechariah 13:8-9, 1 Corinthians 3:13

Zechariah 13:8 And it shall come to pass, that in all the land, saith the LORD, two parts therein shall be cut off and die; but the third shall be left therein.
9 And I will bring the third part through the fire, and will refine them as silver is refined, and will try them as gold is tried: they shall call on my name, and I will hear them: I will say, It is my people: and they shall say, The LORD is my God.

Compared with----

Zechariah 14:17 And it shall be, that whoso will not come up of all the families of the earth unto Jerusalem to worship the King, the LORD of hosts, even upon them shall be no rain.
18 And if the family of Egypt go not up, and come not, that have no rain; there shall be the plague, wherewith the LORD will smite the heathen that come not up to keep the feast of tabernacles.
19 This shall be the punishment of Egypt, and the punishment of all nations that come not up to keep the feast of tabernacles.

The LORD really hears them alright---not. And these that might refuse to keep the feast of tabernacles, are really calling on His name---not. Why not instead conclude this fits the ruling of the nations with a rod of iron much better?

I'm uncertain where you are initially coming up with some of your theology, but maybe you should try a better source instead, since it doesn't seem to be working for you by trying to fit passages with one another, as if it were actually of the same context, when it obviously isn't.

Truth7t7 · Dec 6, 2017

Davy said:
Yes, 1 Thess.4 includes the alseep saints being resurrected on that day of Jesus' coming.

Apostle Paul was teaching the death swallowed up in victory idea from Isaiah 25, which points to all... the nations, notrist's elect at His coming, and that does support what you say there, which I strongly believe also, i.e., that on the day of Jesus' return no one will be in flesh bodies anymore thereafter.

But there WILL still exist the wicked that Jesus and His elect will reign over during His future thousand years reign, and Paul covered the how of that in 1 Cor.15 when he showed that to have eternal Life in Jesus Christ one must go through TWO CHANGES: 1. their corruptible body must put on incorruption, AND 2. their "this mortal" part must put on immortality.

This is the real meaning of the "dead" of Rev.20:5 that so many brethren have a hard time understanding. In that future time, for a soul that is still 'mortal' and not saved by Christ Jesus, then that soul is still considered to be 'dead' because of being subject to the "second death".

The "second death" is the casting into the "lake of fire" at the GWT Judgment after the 1,000 years. The first death is the death of the flesh body. The second death is destruction of one's spiritual body and mortal soul into that lake of fire.

I now understand your belief )

Your belief that the wicked live on earth in a whatever body and believers rule over them for 1000 years isn't in the bible.

Jesus Christ will return in the final judgment, eternal damnation, eternal kingdom.

Matthew 25:31-46 that I have posted "several times" in the past week explains this clearly.

When Jesus returns "Eternity Begins"

1.) Lake of fire "Eternity"

2.) Kingdom, New Heaven, Earth, "Eternity"

There will be no future 1000 year kingdom, where saved/righteous and unsaved/wicked will coexist

I must admit, first time in 40 years I seen that interpretation, thats original

Truth7t7 · Dec 6, 2017

DavidPT said:
I have been Premil ever since I can remember, for decades now. And for decades now I have also been concluding 2 Peter 3:10 occurs during the 2nd coming, and not a thousand years and a little season after Christ has arrived. This is not a new revelation to me by any means.

1.) Do you believe the final judgment takes place at the 2nd coming? Matthew 25:31-46

2.) Do you believe this heaven and earth are literally dissolved by the Lords fire in judgment at the 2nd coming? 2 Peter 3:10-13?

3.) Do you believe in a "New Creation" in the New Heaven, Earth, Jerusalem? Isaiah 65:17-19, Revelation 21:1-5

Truth7t7 · Dec 6, 2017

DavidPT said:
Zechariah 13:8 And it shall come to pass, that in all the land, saith the LORD, two parts therein shall be cut off and die; but the third shall be left therein.
9 And I will bring the third part through the fire, and will refine them as silver is refined, and will try them as gold is tried: they shall call on my name, and I will hear them: I will say, It is my people: and they shall say, The LORD is my God.

Compared with----

Zechariah 14:17 don'tit shall be, that whoso will not come up of all the families of the earth unto Jerusalem to worship the King, the LORD of hosts, even upon them shall be no rain.
18 And if the family of Egypt go not up, and come not, that have no rain; there shall be the plague, wherewith the LORD will smite the heathen that come not up to keep the feast of tabernacles.
19 This shall be the punishment of Egypt, and the punishment of all nations that come not up to keep the feast of tabernacles.

The LORD really hears them alright---not. And these that might refuse to keep the feast of tabernacles, are really calling on His name---not. Why not instead conclude this fits the ruling of the nations with a rod of iron much better?

I'm uncertain where you are initially coming up with some of your theology, but maybe you should try a better source instead, since it doesn't seem to be working for you by trying to fit passages with one another, as if it were actually of the same context, when it obviously isn't.

When Jesus returns with the holy angels, the"Final Judgment" eternal kingdom takes place.

You do not accept the biblical truth as factually true, why?

Matthew 25:31-46

Verses 31-32 Jesus returns with the angels, the nations are gathered before the throne for judgment.

Verse 34 The "Eternal Kingdom." Is presented to the righteous.

Verse 41 The wicked are judged to the "Eternal Lake Of Fire".

Verse 46 The righteous obtain "Eternal Life" and enter the "Eternal Kingdom" in verse 34.

You dont believe this biblical truth, there is no 1000 year kingdom on this earth to follow the 2nd coming, the eternal kingdom has started.

Is "Eternal Life" seen in Verse 46, Do the righteous enter a kingdom in verse 34 thats "Eternal"? 100% Yes!

It appears you don't want to see, and believe this biblical truth, why?

DavidPT · Dec 6, 2017

Truth7t7 said:
When Jesus returns with the holy angels, the"Final Judgment" eternal kingdom takes place.

You do not accept the biblical truth as factually true, why?

Matthew 25:31-46

Verses 31-32 Jesus returns with the angels, the nations are gathered before the throne for judgment.

Verse 34 The "Eternal Kingdom." Is presented to the righteous.

Verse 41 The wicked are judged to the "Eternal Lake Of Fire".

Verse 41 The righteous obtain "Eternal Life" and enter the "Eternal Kingdom" in verse 34.

You dont believe this biblical truth, there is no 1000 year kingdom on this earth to follow the 2nd coming, the eternal kingdom has started.

Is "Eternal Life" seen in Verse 46, Do the righteous enter a kingdom in verse 34 thats "Eternal"? 100% Yes!

It appears you don't want to see, and believe this biblical truth, why?

My views on these other things you bring up do not help your lack of dealing with what I brought up about your conclusions of those of the nations that remain after the nations had come against Jerusalem. You are claiming these are of the ones He will bring the third part through the fire, and will refine them as silver is refined, and will try them as gold is tried. Where I then showed by comparing Scriptures, that those conclusions fail to add up.

Zechariah 13:9 And I will bring the third part through the fire, and will refine them as silver is refined, and will try them as gold is tried: they shall call on my name, and I will hear them: I will say, It is my people: and they shall say, The LORD is my God.

they shall call on my name, and I will hear them: I will say, It is my people: and they shall say, The LORD is my God. This does not fit those left of the nations who had come against Jerusalem. No eternally saved person, post the 2nd coming of Christ, will ever be threatened with plagues if they fail to comply with certain commands. But an unsaved mortal person though, this would fit them to a T.

Truth7t7 · Dec 6, 2017

Matthew 25:31-46 clearly teaches you the "Eternal Kingdom" takes place at the 2nd coming of Jesus Christ, do you deny this biblical truth?

When Jesus returns with the holy angels, the"Final Judgment" eternal kingdom takes place.

You do not accept the biblical truth as factually true, why?

Matthew 25:31-46

Verses 31-32 Jesus returns with the angels, the nations are gathered before the throne for judgment.

Verse 34 The "Eternal Kingdom." Is presented to the righteous.

Verse 41 The wicked are judged to the "Eternal Lake Of Fire".

Verse 46 The righteous obtain "Eternal Life" and enter the "Eternal Kingdom" in verse 34.

You dont believe this biblical truth, there is no 1000 year kingdom on this earth to follow the 2nd coming, the eternal kingdom has started.

Is "Eternal Life" seen in Verse 46, Do the righteous enter a kingdom in verse 34 thats "Eternal"? 100% Yes!

It appears you don't want to see, and believe this biblical truth, why?

DavidPT said:
My views on these other things you bring up do not help your lack of dealing with what I brought up about your conclusions of those of the nations that remain after the nations had come against Jerusalem. You are claiming these are of the ones He will bring the third part through the fire, and will refine them as silver is refined, and will try them as gold is tried. Where I then showed by comparing Scriptures, that those conclusions fail to add up.

Zechariah 13:9 And I will bring the third part through the fire, and will refine them as silver is refined, and will try them as gold is tried: they shall call on my name, and I will hear them: I will say, It is my people: and they shall say, The LORD is my God.

they shall call on my name, and I will hear them: I will say, It is my people: and they shall say, The LORD is my God. This does not fit those left of the nations who had come against Jerusalem. No eternally saved person, post the 2nd coming of Christ, will ever be threatened with plagues if they fail to comply with certain commands. But an unsaved mortal person though, this would fit them to a T.

LittleLambofJesus · Oct 6, 2019

What is the purpose of the thousand-year reign of Christ?

To give the Jews a second chance?

DavidPT · Oct 6, 2019

LittleLambofJesus said:
What is the purpose of the thousand-year reign of Christ?

To give the Jews a second chance?

It depends on how you look at it I guess. If that thousand year reign happens in this age, such as many assume, why wouldn't it be a period of time for giving Jews a 2nd chance?

Romans 11:20 Well; because of unbelief they were broken off, and thou standest by faith. Be not highminded, but fear:
21 For if God spared not the natural branches, take heed lest he also spare not thee.
22 Behold therefore the goodness and severity of God: on them which fell, severity; but toward thee, goodness, if thou continue in his goodness: otherwise thou also shalt be cut off.
23 And they also, if they abide not still in unbelief, shall be graffed in: for God is able to graff them in again.

Obviously verse 23 is something that would have to occur in this age prior to the 2nd coming. Compared to this----because of unbelief they were broken off---how can the following not be a 2nd chance for them----And they also, if they abide not still in unbelief, shall be graffed in: for God is able to graff them in again?

But if we place this thousand years post the 2nd coming instead, I don't see it being for giving unbelieving Jews a 2nd chance.

mmksparbud · Oct 6, 2019

LittleLambofJesus said:
What is the purpose of the thousand-year reign of Christ?

To give the Jews a second chance?

A couple reasons:

God instituted the Sabbath---6 days of work, 1 day of rest, God had instituted a land Sabbath---six years, then 1 year of rest, The Jews did not keep the land sabbath and God had them captive in Babylon for 70 years
2Ch 36:20 And them that had escaped from the sword carried he away to Babylon; where they were servants to him and his sons until the reign of the kingdom of Persia:
2Ch 36:21 To fulfil the word of the LORD by the mouth of Jeremiah, until the land had enjoyed her sabbaths: for as long as she lay desolate she kept sabbath, to fulfil threescore and ten years.

It is 6000 years, then a 1000 years land sabbath.

Plus: There will be questions. Why did saintly Aunt Bertha not make it and fuddy-duddy Uncle Bert did? Why is such and such not here, where is this or that person and how in the world did that one make it in?! We tend to forget that Satan put God on trial. He has accused Him and His followers throughout the ages of all sorts of unsavory things and now comes the time of the unsealing of the truth about everybody and to see that the judgements of God are just and loving.

1Co_6:3 Know ye not that we shall judge angels? how much more, things that pertain to this life?

What angels will we be judging? The ones that never left God certainly need no judgment. It will be the evil ones. We will see God's justice in His decision. It says when Jesus returns:

Rev_22:12 Behold, I come quickly; and my reward is with me, to render to each man according as his work is.

He comes for the saved only. The decision as to who is lost or saved will have been made before He comes. We spent the 1000 years exdaming the books and seeing that justice---no one will have any doubts. It is not that we will be making decisions as to who is lost or saved---but seeing that the judgements of God are just.

LittleLambofJesus · Nov 3, 2019

mmksparbud said:
A couple reasons:
God instituted the Sabbath---6 days of work, 1 day of rest, God had instituted a land Sabbath---six years, then 1 year of rest, The Jews did not keep the land sabbath and God had them captive in Babylon for 70 years
2Ch 36:20 And them that had escaped from the sword carried he away to Babylon; where they were servants to him and his sons until the reign of the kingdom of Persia:21 To fulfil the word of the LORD by the mouth of Jeremiah, until the land had enjoyed her sabbaths: for as long as she lay desolate she kept sabbath, to fulfil threescore and ten years.

It is 6000 years, then a 1000 years land sabbath.

Plus: There will be questions. Why did saintly Aunt Bertha not make it and fuddy-duddy Uncle Bert did? Why is such and such not here, where is this or that person and how in the world did that one make it in?! We tend to forget that Satan put God on trial. He has accused Him and His followers throughout the ages of all sorts of unsavory things and now comes the time of the unsealing of the truth about everybody and to see that the judgements of God are just and loving.

1Co_6:3 Know ye not that we shall judge angels? how much more, things that pertain to this life?

What angels will we be judging? The ones that never left God certainly need no judgment. It will be the evil ones. We will see God's justice in His decision. It says when Jesus returns:

Rev_22:12 Behold, I come quickly; and my reward is with me, to render to each man according as his work is.

He comes for the saved only. The decision as to who is lost or saved will have been made before He comes. We spent the 1000 years exdaming the books and seeing that justice---no one will have any doubts. It is not that we will be making decisions as to who is lost or saved---but seeing that the judgements of God are just.

7000yrs?

mmksparbud · Nov 3, 2019

LittleLambofJesus said:
7000yrs?

Just a thought. Don't know when the end of the 7000 years that the earth has existed is up. Then the earth has a 1000 year Sabbath. God is so very mathematically inclined!

What is the purpose of the thousand-year reign of Christ?

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