What is the proper Christian response to a homosexual?

[UnitedInChrist]

Several people quote science studies that say they have proved that a person is born homosexual. Yet, last year was supposed to be worse than the year before, according to science, with deadly hurricaines. We put science above or use it as proof that the Bible means this or that. Or can't mean this or that.

If I remember correctly there weren't any hurricaines that came on shore or if they did there wasn't anything near the devastation like 2005. Yet, we are supposed to treat the findings from science as........... well as gospel, all knowing and all truth. Can't/won't do that, if it doesn't agree with the scriptures.

Ah...weather and sexuality is really like comparing apples to apples?? Honestly. Of course you're referring to Hurrican Katrenia. Well guess what, we didn't have a hurriance here this week, but our entire town and three surrounding towns are all under water from a Nor'Eastern we had on Sunday. North Jersey and Upstate NY are declared disaster areas...does that mean we ignore it because it's not a hurricane? Really now. I'm curious..why is it that people find science to be the work of Satan? For just a moment...is it even possible that maybe it's God's word saying..."Hey, I've given you scientists, so you can clear up some questions you may have"? Science is NOT all bad..so stop treating it like it's the antichrist or something.

 

[Pogue]

Several people quote science studies that say they have proved that a person is born homosexual. Yet, last year was supposed to be worse than the year before, according to science, with deadly hurricaines. We put science above or use it as proof that the Bible means this or that. Or can't mean this or that.

If I remember correctly there weren't any hurricaines that came on shore or if they did there wasn't anything near the devastation like 2005. Yet, we are supposed to treat the findings from science as........... well as gospel, all knowing and all truth. Can't/won't do that, if it doesn't agree with the scriptures.

Do we actually need a study to prove that somebody is born homosexual?
To explain further- I was born heterosexual. I've only ever been attracted to men. As far as I know, I've got no control over this. I couldn't change who I was attracted to whether I wanted to or not. Wouldn't it make sense to assume that the same goes for homosexuals?

 

[PinkTulip]

Do we actually need a study to prove that somebody is born homosexual?
To explain further- I was born heterosexual. I've only ever been attracted to men. As far as I know, I've got no control over this. I couldn't change who I was attracted to whether I wanted to or not. Wouldn't it make sense to assume that the same goes for homosexuals?

What would you say to a morbidly obese person who states they have a thyroid condition that cause them to eat excessively? If they continue to eat this way, they will die. What do you say to them? Keep eating, who cares?

 

[UnitedInChrist]

What would you say to a morbidly obese person who states they have a thyroid condition that cause them to eat excessively? If they continue to eat this way, they will die. What do you say to them? Keep eating, who cares?

A select group of Christians made the issue out of homosexuality...but saying that they are not good enough...As a result, homosexuals had to speak up for who they are. Same as what happened when slavery was abolished, same as when women got equal rights, etc...(both, by the way, were descrimintated against since the Bible "approved).

As for a "morbidly obese" person...that would be more who perhaps has a thyroid condition or whatever...would be along the lines of a disease. Medication can control a thyroid, etc... I'm not a Dr...just what I hear I suppose

 

[UnitedInChrist]

You have know idea how many or what Bibles, commentaries, websites, etc., that I read and/or study from. So again you are assuming that since I live in the bible belt, believe the Bible is infallible and without err, and that I am a conservative that I am reading certain things.​

Believe it or not I use the brain God gave me, and study Greek translations and many other. I look back and see what the ancients taught, and again don't just take a preachers/teachers word for what the word says or means.​

Here are just a few of the different sources I use to study to show myself approved a workman that need not be ashame.​

1. The Zondervan Parallel New Testament in Greek and English Bible. (KJV, NIV, Greek Interlinear)​

2. The Devotional Bible by Max Lucado, it's NCV.​

3. The Naves Study Bible​

4. Matthew Henry Commentary to go along with the Classical Commentaries which has around 8-10 different peoples understandings.​

5. There is the BibleGateway.com with it's 20 different translations.​

6. The Wycliffe Bible Commentary.​

7. Then there is the computer, and way to many websites.​

8. The Dead Sea Scrolls, By Michael Wise, Martin Abegg Jr., and Edward Cook​

I go with the scriptures and not the doctrines of some denomination, as I have been accused of doing many times.​

Here is one of the things I have studied, which was written way before 1966. In fact these are things that were believed and taught as far back as 151 AD.​

What did early Christians believe about...?​

(Before 400 AD) ​

Uninspired records of how early Christians worshipped and what doctrine they believed! ​

​

What did early Christians believe about Homosexuality!​

• 151 AD Justin Martyr "[W]e have been taught that to expose newly-born children is the part of wicked men; and this we have been taught lest we should do anyone harm and lest we should sin against God, first, because we see that almost all so exposed (not only the girls, but also the males) are brought up to prostitution. And for this pollution a multitude of females and hermaphrodites, and those who commit unmentionable iniquities, are found in every nation. And you receive the hire of these, and duty and taxes from them, whom you ought to exterminate from your realm. And any one who uses such persons, besides the godless and infamous and impure intercourse, may possibly be having intercourse with his own child, or relative, or brother. And there are some who prostitute even their own children and wives, and some are openly mutilated for the purpose of sodomy; and they refer these mysteries to the mother of the gods" (First Apology 27).
• 181 AD Theophilus of Antioch "Give studious attention to the prophetic writings [the Bible] and they will lead you on a clearer path to escape the eternal punishments and to obtain the eternal good things of God.. [God] will examine everything and will judge justly, granting recompense to each according to merit. To those who seek immortality by the patient exercise of good works, he will give everlasting life, joy, peace, rest, and all good things.. For the unbelievers and for the contemptuous, and for those who do not submit to the truth but assent to iniquity, when they have been involved in adulteries, and fornications, and homosexualities, and avarice, and in lawless idolatries, there will be wrath and indignation, tribulation and anguish; and in the end, such men as these will be detained in everlasting fire" (To Autolycus 1:14).
• 190 AD Clement of Alexandria "All honor to that king of the Scythians, whoever Anacharsis was, who shot with an arrow one of his subjects who imitated among the Scythians the mystery of the mother of the gods . . . condemning him as having become effeminate among the Greeks, and a teacher of the disease of effeminacy to the rest of the Scythians" … [According to Greek myth] Baubo [a female native of Elusis] having received [the goddess] Demeter hospitably, reached to her a refreshing draught; and on her refusing it, not having any inclination to drink (for she was very sad), and Baubo having become annoyed, thinking herself slighted, uncovered her shame, and exhibited her nudity to the goddess. Demeter is delighted with the sight--pleased, I repeat, at the spectacle. These are the secret mysteries of the Athenians; these Orpheus records" … "It is not, then, without reason that the poets call him [Hercules] a cruel wretch and a nefarious scoundrel. It were tedious to recount his adulteries of all sorts, and debauching of boys. For your gods did not even abstain from boys, one having loved Hylas, another Hyacinthus, another Pelops, another Chrysippus, another Ganymede. Let such gods as these be worshipped by your wives, and let them pray that their husbands be such as these--so temperate; that, emulating them in the same practices, they may be like the gods. Such gods let your boys be trained to worship, that they may grow up to be men with the accursed likeness of fornication on them received from the gods" (Exhortation to the Greeks 2).
• http://www.bible.ca/H-homosexuality.htm

Homosexuality may be a word that has not been around that long, but the act of homosexuality has. It also has been taught as a sin for as far back as I have found so far, which is around 100 AD.
​

We believe history books that are written about people like Alexander the Great, and other people from way back in history. Even tho these things weren't written till 400 hundred or more years after their deaths, but we refuse to believe things that were written 50 to 100 yrs., after Christs death. ​

Anyhow, I don't just read and believe things written and agreed on by the top denominations, or that are written from 1966 to the present time. Assuming that all people who don't agree with you, or that live in certain areas, are fundamentalist and conservative, don't know how or just don't use the brain God gave them to find the truth is, well.......................................... dare I say judgemental and wrong.​

If I was a liar and a chronic one at that, would you as my brother of sister in Christ come to me as the Bible says to?​

Would you lift me up in your prayers?​

Would you show me how the Bible says that it is a sin and what that sin does?​

If I was like this before I ask the Lord to save me, and in fact said that it wasn't a sin and needed no forgiveness would I really be saved?​

If someone ask others who profess to be Christians if I can be saved while refusing to admit this sin, are they being judgemental?​

Would I then be able to call anyone who did the above a hater and bigot for doing them?​

Would I be able to say that they aren't showing the love of Christ because of their actions?​

I would love to respond to you, but the CF Police have forbidden me to say anything against you as it is "flaming". I wish I were able to continue to post as you are, but unfortuantely, my postings have been removed. Sorry

 

[Pogue]

What would you say to a morbidly obese person who states they have a thyroid condition that cause them to eat excessively? If they continue to eat this way, they will die. What do you say to them? Keep eating, who cares?

I'm probably being a bit slow (long day) but I don't see how this relates.
Comparing a thyroid condition with homosexuality would imply that homosexuality is something you're born with, wouldn't it? Which I would agree with, but I don't think that was your point. However, having a thyroid condition isn't a sin, in the same way that you'd (presumeably) say that homosexual acts are sinful.
Now, in the case of the obese person, I'd advise them to stop eating for the good of their health. But that's only practical advice, not moral advice. To complicate things further, I'd advise somebody not to play tennis in the freezing cold, because they'd probably get ill. But I wouldn't think it would be a sinful act, just a fairly stupid one. The same goes for the morbidly obese person who keeps eating. Keeping eating is not a sin, but it's an inadvisible thing to do if it's making you ill.
To apply this back to homosexuality: gay relationships aren't unhealthy or inadvisable by default. Some are, but most are just normal, healthy relationships which create more good in the world than bad.
If this post has made no sense, I'm sorry I've been speaking German and Dutch all day and have forgotten how to speak English. If I've said something that makes no sense, please tell me and I'll try and rephrase.

 

[David Brider]

What would you say to a morbidly obese person who states they have a thyroid condition that cause them to eat excessively? If they continue to eat this way, they will die. What do you say to them? Keep eating, who cares?

What and how we eat is a physical act. It's something that we all have some measure of control over. It may take a heck of a lot of will power for some people (it certainly does for me), but nevertheless, it is something that with a bit of discipline, we can control.

We can't control who we're attracted to, and under what circumstances - whether in the general sense (like Pogue, I'm heterosexual; I find women in general to be attractive, which is not something I ever chose, or have ever chosen to stop) or the specific sense (I find my fiancee incredibly attractive; I didn't wake up one morning and think, "oh, I ought to think she's attractive," it just happened that way. We're obviously made for each other).

To reiterate Pogue's point - what makes you think it''s any different for homosexuals? Do you think they choose to be attracted to people of the same gender as themselves? Do you think they were once heterosexual and just decided, "oh, I know, I'll become attracted to other men/women" [delete as appropriate]?

Please - be a little realistic.

David.

 

[David Brider]

Homosexuality may be a word that has not been around that long, but the act of homosexuality has.

Oh, for the umpteenth time: homosexuality =/= an act. Homosexuality is being attracted to people of the same gender as yourself.

David.

 

[David Brider]

Do you believe that homosexuals have a place in heaven?

Wuh...is this a trick question?

If they've accepted Jesus as their Lord and Saviour, then yes, most definitely they have a place in heaven! That's what Jesus died for!

David.

 

[PinkTulip]

What and how we eat is a physical act. It's something that we all have some measure of control over. It may take a heck of a lot of will power for some people (it certainly does for me), but nevertheless, it is something that with a bit of discipline, we can control.

We can't control who we're attracted to, and under what circumstances - whether in the general sense (like Pogue, I'm heterosexual; I find women in general to be attractive, which is not something I ever chose, or have ever chosen to stop) or the specific sense (I find my fiancee incredibly attractive; I didn't wake up one morning and think, "oh, I ought to think she's attractive," it just happened that way. We're obviously made for each other).

To reiterate Pogue's point - what makes you think it''s any different for homosexuals? Do you think they choose to be attracted to people of the same gender as themselves? Do you think they were once heterosexual and just decided, "oh, I know, I'll become attracted to other men/women" [delete as appropriate]?

Please - be a little realistic.

David.

Homosexuality is both physical and emotional. And yes, I know people who have chosen to be with men and/or women. You don't think they are out there? You don't think there are people out there who believe that homosexuality is a CHOICE and not biological? For example, I have a minor in feminist thought and theory (queer theory included). One of my professors, a feminist lesbian, is a firm believer that homosexuality is a choice. Why? Because our roles as women and men are not defined by biology but culturally. The same as gays. When you accept the notion that life is about choices, it is very freeing. God gave us freewill, he does not want you to be a slave to sin.

 

[UnitedInChrist]

Homosexuality is both physical and emotional. And yes, I know people who have chosen to be with men and/or women. You don't think they are out there? You don't think there are people out there who believe that homosexuality is a CHOICE and not biological? For example, I have a minor in feminist thought and theory (queer theory included). One of my professors, a feminist lesbian, is a firm believer that homosexuality is a choice. Why? Because our roles as women and men are not defined by biology but culturally. The same as gays. When you accept the notion that life is about choices, it is very freeing. God gave us freewill, he does not want you to be a slave to sin.

Tulip...u are correct with some of your statements. this is especially true with women/lesbians. I know a handful of lesbians, that were truly never lesbians. One was a rape victim, and one was dabbling in it for fun. No lie. Due to sexual violence, rape, etc...many women will turn to other women for support, love, comfort, and be afraid/hate men. Many result in lesbian relationships, but are truly not lesbian. Also, just look at our culture. Straight men LOVE lesbians. They are much more acceptable for some reason. Now, look at men. very few MEN will practice homosexuality for the "fun of it". Sure, some do, but again, not a homosexual. The point being is sexuality is what it is. You leave it alone, and you go where you go without thought. To have to think, and then act, and then choose, is the most unnatural thing to do. Again, sexuality has never been an issue for most, AND no one is out to change sexuality other than ministries. That says alot. If you went to a Dr and said "dr, I'm gay and Iwant to change...they would look at you like you had three heads". They would send you to a therapist, who would then say, relax. If you went to a minister...they would be the ones to convince you you can change. Disease scares me, cancer scares me, Hospitals scare me. Viruses scare me, etc... Being gay doesn't do anything to me. It's a part of who i am..it is not who i am. People think I'm in the mob because I'm Italian and they watch the Soprano's. People think I'm a pervert and promiscuious because I'm gay. People think I'm a liberal because I'm from NJ. People think all sorts of things about people are that's life. I don't get offended because it is all PERCEPTION. Anyway, as always..>I digress. While it is a lot more than just this, Christs core belief was LOVE. He opens his arms and says come to me and I will love you. You were created in my likeness". he doesn't say come to me, but you homosexuals stay put. It just does not work that way at all.

 

[BereanTodd]

That aside it does matter. To condemn an entire minority just because they are a minority makes the position of conservative Christians no different from racism.

Bigotry is bigotry no matter who it is directed against or how often one cites the bible in its defense.

How do I condemn them? I support gay marriage. I have gay friends. I welcome gays to attend my church. I show my love towards everyone.

Now if by "condemn" you mean to hell, well if they are unrepentent about their sinful lifestyle it is not I who condemns them but God, perhaps you should take your issue up with Him.

 

[UnitedInChrist]

How do I condemn them? I support gay marriage. I have gay friends. I welcome gays to attend my church. I show my love towards everyone.

Now if by "condemn" you mean to hell, well if they are unrepentent about their sinful lifestyle it is not I who condemns them but God, perhaps you should take your issue up with Him.

Sinful to you through your interpretation. Not sinful to others on their interpretation. Also, is heterosexuality a "lifestyle" and a "choice"... Did it just happen for you or did you have to research it before you started being sexually attracted to women? I'm not sure where "lifestyle" comes from, but it's a life...not really a style. Oh well...

 

[ReformedChapin]

Sinful to you through your interpretation. Not sinful to others on their interpretation. Also, is heterosexuality a "lifestyle" and a "choice"... Did it just happen for you or did you have to research it before you started being sexually attracted to women? I'm not sure where "lifestyle" comes from, but it's a life...not really a style. Oh well...

So if my interpretation murders are ok then they aren't goingto hell? And it is a lifestyle since you can't prove it's genetic.

 

[savedandhappy1]

Ah...weather and sexuality is really like comparing apples to apples?? Honestly. Of course you're referring to Hurrican Katrenia. Well guess what, we didn't have a hurriance here this week, but our entire town and three surrounding towns are all under water from a Nor'Eastern we had on Sunday. North Jersey and Upstate NY are declared disaster areas...does that mean we ignore it because it's not a hurricane? Really now. I'm curious..why is it that people find science to be the work of Satan? For just a moment...is it even possible that maybe it's God's word saying..."Hey, I've given you scientists, so you can clear up some questions you may have"? Science is NOT all bad..so stop treating it like it's the antichrist or something.

Well this is a new year and the weather that was predicted for last year didn't happen.

Who said science is the work of satan? Who said it was the antichrist? You seem to love to blow things up into something they aren't.

You seem to like to think that you know so much about someone by where they live, and if they are this or that. Sorry you don't know as much as you think you do.

So why don't you stop thinking that those of us that are considered those 3 or 4 bad things,(bible belt, fundie, conservative) are stupid, closed minded people.

So why don't you stop and think that God gave us scientist but they aren't greater than God, and not all of them are doing the will of the Lord.

You don't believe that any human could be controlled by the powers of the great deceiver?

Do you believe it is not possible for satan to make things appear to be something they aren't?

I think back to Job and all that was done to him, and realize that satan, if the Lord allows, can do alot. Do you think that the Lord would allow him to deceive those that can be deceived?

The bible says that if something isn't of the Lord it is of the devil. Or is this another part of the bible that has been misinterpretated?

You think I give the devil more power than he has, and it appears you don't think he has any power at all. Oh, well...................................

You can hang on to your beliefs, and think you know me and what and why I believe what I do, but it appears that if you keep going as you are now that you will be wrong. I think you pretty well are at strike three, but keep on assuming or not it's up to you.

I see that you have joined all the others who think their mind is the only one open, but again you would be wrong.

Looks like this discussion has ended.
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[savedandhappy1]

I would love to respond to you, but the CF Police have forbidden me to say anything against you as it is "flaming". I wish I were able to continue to post as you are, but unfortuantely, my postings have been removed. Sorry

I would ask why you consider my post flaming, and why they are allowed if they are, but........................

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[savedandhappy1]

Oh, for the umpteenth time: homosexuality =/= an act. Homosexuality is being attracted to people of the same gender as yourself.

David.

I have been away for several weeks, and don't believe we have met. So for the umpteenth time means nothing to me, because if you think I have read all the post for the past month that I have missed, think again.

Also, do you really think....................... oh nevermind I have better things to do than explain how being rude doesn't become you.

Oh by the way my name is Kathy, and I think I need to take another month off. It was alot more fun to be praying, studying the word, and watching my grandson.

Good Day.

​

 

[serephim02]

Why is it necesary to respond to a homosexual person any differently than one would respond to a heterosexual person?

We are all the same, and should all be "responded to" the same

EXACTLY!!! we are all sinners and we should leave it up to God to Judge us accordingly. I personally believe that as long as they accept Christ they will be forgiven but I really dont know TBH. Most who are saved try to change their lifestlye rather than repeat their sin consistently on this subject of homosexuality I am rather conflicted because it says they will go to Hell but IDK....nor would I particulary care if I was confronted in this situation. They are who they are so IDK.

 

[Der Alte]

the bible contains three hundred and sixty two instances where it declarers heterosexual sex a sin. if as you attest there is not difference between sexual orientation and sexual actions…then all heterosexuals are destined for hell…good news for the bisexuals I guess.

Prove it!

but then...so is eating shellfish

Jesus abrogated the dietary laws in Matthew 15:17-18, and God himself further abrogated them in Acts 10:9-16. Do you have any other irrelevant frivolous smoke screens?

 

[Der Alte]

You're right.

I keep forgetting: heterosexuals don't sin.

Or if they do, it's only a little bitty sin — certainly not like two men having sex in bed.

Like the heterosexual guy in Virginia who killed 33 people. It would have been so much worse for everybody if he'd been gay.

A mentally deranged person who had been referred to mental health services at least twice, has a psychotic episode, and kills several people and you want to use a tragedy like that to justify your lifestyle? You want to place yourself on the same level as him? Who are we to argue?