What is the point in eternal life ?

[Tynan]

I often wonder if there would be any goal or drive to those who find themselves in the magical kingdom of heaven.

It seems to me that an eternal existence would negate many of the things that make us human, or maybe we would not be human in heaven ?

Just pondering ?

 

[TeddyKGB]

IMO the Christian afterlife is absurdly contrived. What happens to the four-year-old who dies? Does she have to be four for eternity? What about the ninety-four-year-old?

 

[metherion]

One ofthe points in wanting eternal life is that eternal life involves being with God. Since being with God is the greatest joy one can experience, greater than anything possible on earth, being with God for all eternity is a reward.

Also, in Heaven we are supposed to be human, except perfected, all sin gone from our souls. Most of our wants and needs, however, will be filled just from being near God. His prescence will be our food, drink, etc, and we will not want for anything, nor get bored, or anything like that. I guess that might be seen as losing a part of our humanity though.

And for some reason, there will be a shortage of chairs.

Metherion

 

[Blackguard_]

I often wonder if there would be any goal or drive to those who find themselves in the magical kingdom of heaven.

Why wouldn't there be? Why couldn;t we have similar goals/motives to this world?

If there's a limit to what can be done and/or known (ie.e the 'but Heaven will be boring eventually!' objection) are the Great Accomplishers just ruining it for everbody? Will someday a top Scholar/Scientist hold a press conference announce "We now officially know everything, Acedemia is now pointless"<pulls pistol out of his lab cab, puts it in his mouth, squeezes trigger> *bang* *thud*? Are all those great scholar/scientists/athletes/writers/etc. just hastening the day human life is pointless?

It seems to me that an eternal existence would negate many of the things that make us human,

What are you getting at?

 

[Tynan]

I often wonder if there would be any goal or drive to those who find themselves in the magical kingdom of heaven.

Why wouldn't there be?

I understand the those who invest themselves in such thought believe there would be no need to find food, to earn money, to keep healthy, to attract a mate and so on and so on.

Can you learn a language in heaven, can you make an effort, can you make a mistake ?

I cannot see how any drive or goal can be consistent with the commonly held notion of a heaven.

 

[Tynan]

One ofthe points in wanting eternal life is that eternal life involves being with God. Since being with God is the greatest joy one can experience, greater than anything possible on earth, being with God for all eternity is a reward.

This absolute peak of pleasure and satisfaction always sounds to me like the very peak of desirous greed !

But once this has been attained, what possible goals would a human retain whilst in heaven ?

Also, in Heaven we are supposed to be human, except perfected, all sin gone from our souls. Most of our wants and needs, however, will be filled just from being near God. His prescence will be our food, drink, etc, and we will not want for anything, nor get bored, or anything like that. I guess that might be seen as losing a part of our humanity though.

Much like a heroin addict who blissfully loses every goal, drive or desire he or she ever had would this not be a complete and permanent loss of our human identity ?

And for some reason, there will be a shortage of chairs.

Metherion

All the chairs are in hell, we will after all need something to fuel the fires.

 

[Tynan]

IMO the Christian afterlife is absurdly contrived. What happens to the four-year-old who dies? Does she have to be four for eternity? What about the ninety-four-year-old?

I suppose the Christian view would be something along the lines of firstly a loss of the earthly body, then a homogenization of the personality so one is neither four nor ninety four but all ages, a kind of generalized all encompassing 'you' negating age.

If this sounds like I just made it up, it is because I just made it up as I went along.

Additionally, if this sounds like Christian theology it is because I just made it up as I went along.

 

[Blackguard_]

I understand the those who invest themselves in such thought believe there would be no need to find food, to earn money, to keep healthy, ...and so on and so on.

Heaven sucks casue there's no rat race/daily grind to survive?

to attract a mate

I have no idea about the "attract a mate" though, it says we'll be "like the angels" in that regard, but how the angels are in that regard is not said, the closest being is if you take the view that the Giants that God flooded the earth for where made when fallen angels raped women, implying we'll have some sort of sexuality in Heaven.

Can you learn a language in heaven,

Why not?

can you make an effort,

Why not?

can you make a mistake ?

Morally, no. And not the more catstrophic errors i.e fatal ones unless Heavens like Valhalla and everone regenerates. Otherwise why not? Sports would be mighty pointless if no one made mistakes.

I cannot see how any drive or goal can be consistent with the commonly held notion of a heaven.

Why not? I do not agree with the "you instantly have everything you want" view if that's what you argue against.

 

[Blackguard_]

I suppose the Christian view would be something along the lines of firstly a loss of the earthly body, then a homogenization of the personality so one is neither four nor ninety four but all ages, a kind of generalized all encompassing 'you' negating age.

Nah, you're still 4 or 94, but everyone has the body of the ideal 25 year old you.

 

[Tynan]

Heaven sucks casue there's no rat race/daily grind to survive?

My point is that heaven, as is commonly understood, would be devoid of all the things that define us as human.

I have no idea about the "attract a mate" though, it says we'll be "like the angels" in that regard, but how the angels are in that regard is not said, the closest being is if you take the view that the Giants that God flooded the earth for where made when fallen angels raped women, implying we'll have some sort of sexuality in Heaven.

Interesting idea. Would this sexuality involve intercourse and could this lead to conception ?

Tynan wrote: Can you learn a language in heaven,

Why not?

Learning implies an effort, to me at least.

If the outcome of the learning is failure will we be dissapointed?, Can you be dissapointed in heaven? Or does everyone pass everything with flying colours ?

If we do fail and feel no disappointment have we still kept what it is to be human ?

Can we fail at things and walk away with a fixed smile on our faces ?

Or if everyone succeeds at everything, always, do we walk away with any sense of achievement ?

Before we learn a new language are their communication problems with those who do not share our language or does everyone share the same homogenized language ?

Tynan wrote: can you make an effort,

Why not?

Making an effort implies mulitple outcomes with the most apparent being failure or success.

Can we fail in anyway in heaven and does this bring disappointment ?

Can we only succeed and always achieve our aims, and can this be seen as effort ?

Imagine being at a fairground duckshoot and regardless or where we aim the gun, the pellet always weaves its way to the bullseye on the tin duck, is this anything other than predetermination ?

Or can we miss and feel unhappy about the outcome ?

Morally, no. And not the more catstrophic errors i.e fatal ones unless Heavens like Valhalla and everone regenerates. Otherwise why not? Sports would be mighty pointless if no one made mistakes.

Can the last place loser of the 16 billionth Heaven Olympic 400 metre sprint feel sad at his poor performance ?

Is feeling sad a viable notion in heaven ?

 

[Tynan]

Nah, you're still 4 or 94, but everyone has the body of the ideal 25 year old you.

If at 25 I was in poor health for whatever reason would I be given a new arbitrary body ?

Would everyone have the same body ?

 

[Blackguard_]

If at 25 I was in poor health for whatever reason would I be given a new arbitrary body ?

but everyone has the body of the ideal 25 year old you.

Also, did you miss the "winkie"?

Would everyone have the same body ?

I don't see why you would.

 

[Blackguard_]

My point is that heaven, as is commonly understood, would be devoid of all the things that define us as human.

If the rat race defines humanity, I don't want to be one.

Interesting idea. Would this sexuality involve intercourse and could this lead to conception ?

I thought sexuality implied intercourse? No idea about conception though.

Learning implies an effort, to me at least.

ok

If the outcome of the learning is failure will we be dissapointed?,

Yes you can be disappointed.

Can you be dissapointed in heaven?

yes. Can you be a sore loser and/or crybaby? No.

Or does everyone pass everything with flying colours ?

no

If we do fail and feel no disappointment have we still kept what it is to be human ?

Depends. Did you screw up, or was it something beyond your ability to do? Isn't Stocism based on not caring if you fail do to things beyond your control?

Can we fail at things and walk away with a fixed smile on our faces ?

I don't think you should ever have a fixed smile.

Or if everyone succeeds at everything, always, do we walk away with any sense of achievement ?

Possibly. Sense of achievement is based on difficulty and assumes sucess right?

Before we learn a new language are their communication problems with those who do not share our language or does everyone share the same homogenized language ?

I don't know. But a mish-mash lanquage is unlikely (is that what you meant by homogenized?). A heavenly lanquage is most likely.

Making an effort implies mulitple outcomes with the most apparent being failure or success.

I think you're conflating effort with risk.

Can we fail in anyway in heaven and does this bring disappointment ?

Yes, you already asked this.

Can we only succeed and always achieve our aims, and can this be seen as effort ?

If effort requires risk, no. If a runner who runs 5 miles a day easy runs 3 miles, has he made no effort?

Imagine being at a fairground duckshoot and regardless or where we aim the gun, the pellet always weaves its way to the bullseye on the tin duck, is this anything other than predetermination ?

yea, that's cheating.

Or can we miss and feel unhappy about the outcome ?

There's also that you might just be a good shot and not need to cheat....

And yes you could miss. As for feeling unhappy, depends on what you mean. Like I said earlier, you shouldn't react to failure by being a crybaby should you?

In Heaven, everone will be goos sports, and some dissapointment goes with that, and the ability to react properly to failure is what most of sportsmanship consists of. Some dissapoint is good, but not too much.

Can the last place loser of the 16 billionth Heaven Olympic 400 metre sprint feel sad at his poor performance ?

How do you distinquish dissapointment from sadness? If you mean a sore loser no. If you're a good sport, should you be sad? What about the fun of the game?

Is feeling sad a viable notion in heaven ?

probably not.

 

[ReluctantProphet]

I cannot see how any drive or goal can be consistent with the commonly held notion of a heaven.

And you might also want to look into exactly where that commonly held version sprang.

Jesus specifically avoided getting into any description of Heaven (for a good reason). But everyone today seems to think that they know all about it and thus conclude all kinds of things for and against "what it would be like".

I'd like to know just how they come up with these conclusions so confidently concerning something they have so little reference to.

 

[Tynan]

Also, did you miss the "winkie"?

No, I just thought TeddyKGB's question was vailid enough to not be sidetracked by humorous diffusion.


Tynan wrote: Would everyone have the same body ?

I don't see why you would.

OK, if then we have different bodies what would they be based on ?

Would they be the bodies of our earthly existence - with their flaws, problems and disabilities ?

Or would they be new 'perfect' bodies.

If they are 'perfect' how can they be different ?

Once god has given us our new body and made that body perfect in everyway how does it (god) then create a differing body from the one made perfect and also call it perfect ?

Sorry for so many questions !

 

[Tynan]

Tynan wrote: My point is that heaven, as is commonly understood, would be devoid of all the things that define us as human.

If the rat race defines humanity, I don't want to be one.

I am not so sure the 'rat race' defines humanity, the phrase represents little more than a personal despondency with the culture of 9-5 full time employment.

I thought sexuality implied intercourse? No idea about conception though.

Not necessarily, but if you intended to mean intercourse when you said 'sexuality' I accept your meaning.

As for feeling unhappy, depends on what you mean. Like I said earlier, you shouldn't react to failure by being a crybaby should you?

My point is to wonder whether emotions such as sadness, dissapointment, sorrow and so on are possible in heaven ?

 

[Tynan]

Jesus specifically avoided getting into any description of Heaven (for a good reason).

What would this reason be ?

But everyone today seems to think that they know all about it and thus conclude all kinds of things for and against "what it would be like".

Indeed, if such a thing as heaven exists it may be nothing more than a repository for humanity where we remain inactive both physically and mentally for all we know ?

Or it could be a feast of satisfaction and pleasure more along the lines of the Christian view ?

I'd like to know just how they come up with these conclusions so confidently concerning something they have so little reference to.

I would guess it is a simple manifestation of wishful thinking ?

 

[Im_A]

I often wonder if there would be any goal or drive to those who find themselves in the magical kingdom of heaven.

It seems to me that an eternal existence would negate many of the things that make us human, or maybe we would not be human in heaven ?

Just pondering ?

i've kind of come to the conclusion, the next life is the next life. i have my speculations for sure that i'm pretty set upon, but that'll come whenever it comes.

i've got this life to figure out and that can be tricky enough at times

 

[Merlin]

Eternal existance simply means an existance outside of what we call time.

 

[Tynan]

Eternal existance simply means an existance outside of what we call time.

!!

That may be a 'simply' to you but I struggle to comprehend what it is you are talking about.

Could you explain what it means to exist outside of time ?


Cheers

Ty