What is the meaning of Genesis 19:4-8?

[ebia]

Refer to Genesis 19:4-8.

Why does Lot offer his daughters to the wicked men? Why kind of father would do such a thing?

Lot is contrasted to the lack of hospitality shown by the city.

Note that the text does not condone the way he seeks to do that.

 

[Hestha]

The text is within the context of a time and place with certain general customs and assumption.

First, it needs to be said, that the text does not actually tell us one way or the other whether Lot's own intended action was good or bad (it merely describes what Lot tried to do, without assigning moral quality to it).

Moving from that into the actual situation the text describes:

Hospitality, the welcoming of strangers, was a supreme virtue in the ancient near-eastern world. And Genesis describes two episodes as parallels/contrasts to highly the marked difference between Abraham and the Hebrews with the surrounding nations.

Note that prior to the whole ordeal with Sodom, Lot, etc the text talks about three angelic visitors coming to Abraham. Abraham welcomes them, he prepares a sumptuous feast for them.

Following this angelic visitors go into Sodom, and in stark contrast to Abraham and his people's hospitality, these visitors are greeted only by an angry, hostile mob.

Further, let's keep in mind that Genesis is part of the Torah, the five books of Moses, and additionally it is a prologue to the Exodus and God making a covenant with the Israelites. These two stories establish a parallel contrast, with Abraham as Patriarch of the Hebrews, father of Israel, he represents here what is expected of God's people. And, indeed, God established commandments specifically for Israel for the right and just treatment of foreigners and strangers. Hospitality was to be a prime virtue of God's People.

In this context, the text describes Lot trying to bargain for the visitors. While it seems barbaric and misogynistic today, in those days a man's daughters were his property, and thus Lot is bargaining, offering what is his (his own flesh and blood daughters) to try and save the visitors. Now we can look at that from our perspective and make many a moral judgment; but the text must be read from within the context of time and culture.

But this is the context of what is described in the text, it is part of a larger narrative teaching the essential importance of hospitality and how that would be a marked distinctive of God's people in contrast to those people, who in their wickedness, mistreat neighbor and stranger; whereas God's people are to welcome, feed, clothe, and nourish the stranger.

In fact, in the Prophet Ezekiel, we find Sodom as the archetype of a people who mistreated the poor and the oppressed, who did not welcome in strangers. It is also in this context that when Jesus sends His apostles out, He says concerning those who will reject them that it will be far better for Sodom on Judgment day. Sodom's mistreatment of the poor, the stranger, and the needy is the chief sin of the city, and the reason why it was destroyed (at least according to the Bible itself).

-CryptoLutheran

So, the moral of the story of Sodom is to show hospitality and kindness to strangers, the poor, and the oppressed. OK, I understand the hospitality and kindness to the poor and oppressed part, but why show hospitality and kindness to strangers? The only practical use for hospitality and kindness to strangers would be the Good Samaritan Laws, in which people are expected to act like the Good Samaritan and help strangers in need or in pain. Whether people actually become the Good Samaritan, that's another story... I am not sure how many people would actually help a random person on the street, unless they are educated by a good-quality psychological research study that shows the effects of not helping strangers and use that to change the world.

In addition, the word "Sodomy" appears in the Merriam-Webster dictionary as ": anal or oral copulation with a member of the same or opposite sex; also : copulation with an animal". It originates from the notion in Sodom that the men in Sodom has homosexual proclivities. I don't know about you, but I am trying to understand how certain sexual behaviors have to do with showing hospitality. Perhaps, not showing hospitality involves raping strangers or shaming them by taking away their virginities? If Sodom is about the lack of hospitality and the wickedness of the people, then wouldn't Sodomy Law supposed to be about, in broad terms, not showing hospitality to strangers? Then again, why would a government make a law that requires people to show hospitality to strangers and foreigners? Would that imply free-for-all immigration? Perhaps, it is best for the people to decide what to do about their private lives. That is, whether they want to become a Christian or not, whether they want to show hospitality and kindness, or whether they want to engage in certain sexual behaviors.

 

[ebia]

So, the moral of the story of Sodom is to show hospitality and kindness to strangers, the poor, and the oppressed.

The Old Testament doesn't function as a collection of stories each with a moral meaning.

 

[Hestha]

The Old Testament doesn't function as a collection of stories each with a moral meaning.

Then what is the function of the Old Testament?

 

[ebia]

Then what is the function of the Old Testament?

It's the (unfinished) story of what YHWH is doing, through Abraham and his family, to sort out the mess we've got the world into.

 

[Hestha]

It's the (unfinished) story of what YHWH is doing, through Abraham and his family, to sort out the mess we've got the world into.

Who's "we"? I suppose you mean "you" and other Christians. What is the mess that "we" have got the world into? Why do you blame "we"? What did you do?

 

[ebia]

Who's "we"? I suppose you mean "you" and other Christians. What is the mess that "we" have got the world into? Why do you blame "we"? What did you do?

"we" - humanity collectively.

Look at all the injustice, violence, unnecessary suffering in the world

 

[Hestha]

"we" - humanity collectively.

Look at all the injustice, violence, unnecessary suffering in the world

So, in your words, Yahweh was doing something through Abraham and his family to sort out what "we" - humanity - has got ourselves into, which are injustice, violence, and unnecessary suffering in the world.

Well, what do you expect people to do? Behave like animals? In lions, grown male lions would kill the cubs of a female lion in order to sire his own cubs with her. Cruel as it may seem, at least the female lion has the better male lion to procreate stronger, healthier offspring. In the long run, it's for survival of the fittest. Nature has no morals.

 

[ebia]

So, in your words, Yahweh was doing something through Abraham and his family to sort out what "we" - humanity - has got ourselves into, which are injustice, violence, and unnecessary suffering in the world.

Well, what do you expect people to do? .

To be God's image in and for creation bringing his loving, just, ... rule to fruition.

 

[Hestha]

To be God's image in and for creation bringing his loving, just, ... rule to fruition.

So.... does that imply that non-Christians who do not believe in a god have to emulate Christians in order to save the world of corruption?

 

[1234321]

Since you are a Christian, that would make you a follower of Jesus, and by your wording, you would be considered a believer of the "Hebrew faith", and therefore a Jew, correct? Would you consider yourself a Christian or a Jew? You do realize that true Jews do not accept Jesus as the Christ, right? They regard Jesus as a false messiah claimant out of many Jewish messiah claimants.

Also, I am wondering why you are mentioning people who "do not known their genetic lineages". Have you ever met anyone who can trace his or her lineage for 2000 years into the past?

The more I speak with people, the more I declassify myself. I am a believer in Christ who [attempts] to follow the word of God in its entirety - even if I fail.

It would not make me a JEW, as JUDAISM is a separate faith altogether, which exclusively (and almost pridefully) rejects that Christ was the Messiah. People who followed the word of God before Christ were called Hebrews, and were called "Ioudens (Greek,)" "Judens," or JEWS as an almost derogatory term. I could be an Hebrew (if I was sure I had Hebrew genetic roots.) Remember, the disciples were all Hebrews (not "Jews," they were of 1 of 12 tribes of Israel.) Even AFTER Christ died, they still continued to follow Hebrew law, and believe in Christ.


I say that people do not know their genetic lineage because most people who are Hebrews don't. There are more Hebrews in the world than the population of Jerusalem. Most all of the Jacobian tribes of Israel were scattered around the world, traded and sold into slavery/bondage, and their history was suppressed. So, there are many people in the world unaware of their genetic history.

Christ was Hebrew, as I said before. Hebrews that believed in Christ were initially called Christians. Gentiles (non-genetic Hebrews) were then called Christians that believed in Christ. The whole point of Acts 11 was God telling Peter (an Hebrew) that he cannot called gentiles unclean because they are not Hebrews. God was telling Peter that spiritually, anyone that believed in Christ, and His sacrifice was a spiritual Hebrew, and a brother/sister in Christ.

 

[ebia]

So.... does that imply that non-Christians who do not believe in a god have to emulate Christians in order to save the world of corruption?

The point of Christianity is getting on board with God's way of doing things by following Jesus.

When Josephus was a Jewish army officer in Galillee a few years after Jesus death he had to deal with a Jewish zealot (terrorist) who's attacks on the Romans were making things worse, not better. Josephus told the zealot (who happened to be named Jesus) "repent and believe in me". He didn't mean "feel a big guilty about being naughty, acknowledge my existence, and you can go to heaven when you die". What he meant was "give up your agenda which is counterproductive, trust me and get onboard with my way of dealing with the problem".

Jesus meant much the same thing when he used an almost identical phrase.

 

[CrashTestPoster]

Hestha, because he was a bad father. There will always be bad fathers.

Lot's wife was one of the "evil folks" and proved it when she looked back. Why disobey God and look back unless you're longing after that place? Or just lusting to look at something so destructive? why disobey God at all?

Lot can't stop his wife from sinning. She makes her own choices. We can't know all the reasons why a human being makes the wrong choices.