What is the Gospel?

[truefiction1]

I believe scripture is our final authority. If a church teaches otherwise, we need to find another.

God is the final authority, which is the Holy Spirit at work in our hearts and minds, revealing Christ to us, who reveals the Father. If we have not found God abiding in our own hearts then we do not know God, and thus, we can't understand His Words (Scripture). The Church is the place where the Holy Spirit is most directly present to us. That is why we belong.

 

[~Anastasia~]

With all due respect, I fail to see why the disagreement? This is one case where Scripture certainly seems to "plainly say" a certain thing.

Ok, lets have a look. Romans 2:12-16
12 For all who have sinned without the Law will also perish without the Law, and all who have sinned under the Law will be judged by the Law;

13 for it is not the hearers of the Law who are just before God, but the doers of the Law will be justified.

The doers of the Law will be justified - what Truefiction mentioned above. Quoted directly from Scripture.

14 For when Gentiles who do not have the Law

It says right here that the Scriptures are talking about Gentiles who do not have the Law. Why must it somehow be made to be actually about Jews? That's not what the Scripture says.

do instinctively the things of the Law, these, not having the Law, are a law to themselves, 15 in that they show the work of the Law written in their hearts,

their conscience bearing witness and their thoughts alternately accusing or else defending them,

Scripture directly speaks of a defense (in the cases of some) of their lives.

16 on the day when, according to my gospel, God will judge the secrets of men through Christ Jesus.

The defense is placed on the day when God judges. Again, plainly, directly stated in Scripture.

Paul is speaks of many things, but how can one read this and say that it is not true that Gentiles who have not received any Law will (in the case of some) be defended by their conscience on the day of judgment, being justified by having been doers of the Law.

At any rate - I do not wish to argue or debate, and most especially this is not the time for me to be doing that ... I answer only because this seems the only way to answer your question to me earlier when I mentioned this passage without fully quoting it. Let the Scriptures speak and say what they say, and may it be blessed.

 

[ArmyMatt]

well, it's obvious.
In your opinion.

Ok, show me where scripture teaches this.
It simply does not support your theory.

You aren't adding anything aside from avoiding actually backing up what you are saying. Your line is simply that you are right because you say so.

And it's 1 Peter 3.

 

[Foghorn]

God is the final authority, which is the Holy Spirit at work in our hearts and minds, revealing Christ to us, who reveals the Father. If we have not found God abiding in our own hearts then we do not know God, and thus, we can't understand His Words (Scripture). The Church is the place where the Holy Spirit is most directly present to us. That is why we belong.

The church is the body of Christ, not a building.

 

[ArmyMatt]

The church is the body of Christ, not a building.

We know, we don't say it is a building

 

[truefiction1]

The church is the body of Christ, not a building.

It is a building made up of God's people, assembled and constructed by the Holy Spirit of God. Construction was begun by Christ and has not ceased. The Church, not Scripture, is the "Pillar and foundation of the truth" (1 Timothy 3:15), because the Holy Spirit breaths in Her, purifying the souls and illumining the minds of her members, making of Her a pure and blameless Bride. The narrow way of repentance is the only point of entry into the Life of the Church, because it is the only door by which the Holy Spirit can begin to come alive to us within our own souls.

 

[prodromos]

The church is the body of Christ, not a building.

That's a very popular strawman. People never seem to tire of throwing it out there, and yet I have never in my life come across ANY Christian who reads "church" in the Scriptures and interprets it as a building. None!

 

[buzuxi02]

Jm,
The question on what is "agape" is probably opening a can of worms. I assure you though this classical greek word has nothing to do with any modern definition, nor anything to do with charity. Ask 10 people what love is and you will probably get 20 different answers.

 

[JM]

Jm,
The question on what is "agape" is probably opening a can of worms. I assure you though this classical greek word has nothing to do with any modern definition, nor anything to do with charity. Ask 10 people what love is and you will probably get 20 different answers.

Could that be due to the lack of teaching, emphasis on ritual and liturgy, for the misunderstanding among Orthodox?

Thanks,

jm

 

[ArmyMatt]

Could that be due to the lack of teaching, emphasis on ritual and liturgy, for the misunderstanding among Orthodox?

or that the understanding is the key, even if we use different terms

 

[truefiction1]

Could that be due to the lack of teaching, emphasis on ritual and liturgy, for the misunderstanding among Orthodox?

Thanks,

jm

In short, it is because so few actually attain to having it, whether Orthodox Christian or otherwise.

 

[buzuxi02]

There are 4-5 different greek words all translated as Love in the English bibles. As far as I'm concerned only agape qualifies as love but doesn't matter what word is used as no definition of the word can properly be conveyed, llet alone in 2016

 

[~Anastasia~]

St. Maximos the Confessor's 100 centuries on love were a good start. Difficult to get through that and move on to anything more intense ... they were recommended to me by a monk friend a couple of years ago.

When I can manage to actually DO ALL of them, I'll get back to you. (I am KIDDING!!!)

 

[~Anastasia~]

Could that be due to the lack of teaching, emphasis on ritual and liturgy, for the misunderstanding among Orthodox?

Thanks,

jm

I think because it is DIFFICULT to love as we are told to do ...

 

[sculleywr]

Hey folks, I'm back for a little while. I have some questions about the Eastern Orthodox view of the Gospel. It has been said that people may be saved "by love" even if they have never heard the name of Christ or the Gospel. What is this Gospel according to Eastern Orthodoxy and how does it compare to the Protestant understanding? Can someone love their way into heaven if they worship pagan deities? Can someone deny the name of Christ but still love? What is this love that earns salvation?

If the answer is, "I don't know, only God knows" how can you tell someone who does know the answer, that they are wrong for disagreeing with you, considering you already stated that "you don't know?"

Thanks,

jm

I answered a similar question on another forum, so I'm copying my response from that forum here, since it is relevant:

To borrow from the website of St. Paul of Emmaus Orthodox Church, under Father Andrew Stephen Damick, author of Orthodoxy and Heterodoxy, the three parts of the gospel are this:
I. Jesus is the Messiah.
II. Christ is risen!
III. We can be saved as a result.

All Christians agree on the meaning of the first two. The Orthodox, however, have a different definition of "saved" than the west. For the West, salvation is purely about whether a person will go to heaven or not. To the Orthodox Christian, going to heaven is neither the main part, nor even the most important ingredient, of the salvation cake or its icing. Going to heaven is akin to the pretty letters written in that gel icing on the cake. Sure, it's good and necessary to send the message the cake intends, but it isn't the primary ingredient.

For the Orthodox Christian, salvation is becoming by Grace what Christ is by nature (Eph. 4:13; 1 Jn. 3:2).

"This process requires participation in the life of Jesus Christ (1 Cor. 1:18), repenting of sins (turning around and changing one’s life), being baptized into His death and resurrection (Col. 2:12), followed by being anointed with the gift of the Holy Spirit (chrismation/confirmation, Acts 2:38), and then partaking of His Body and Blood in the Eucharist (Jn. 6:53-56)."

The participation in the life of Christ, repentance of our sins, and participation in the Eucharist are to be continual parts in our lives, as each of these will continually transform us into the image of Christ (Romans 12:2). In doing so, we put away the old man and put on the new man (2 Cor 5:17), as Scripture says, "whoever has been baptized into Christ has put on Christ" (Gal 3:27).

This transformation is the purpose for which Christ established His Body in the Church, to be the Pillar and Ground of the Truth (I Tim 3:15), to which we can run to find that which will transform us into that image. This position can only be held by the Church if the Holy Spirit preserves the whole Church as that Pillar, for if it were to falter, to apostatize, to fall into heresy, then there is no way by which we can be certain that we can find the Truth. This is the largest struggle in the West, for the doctrine of Relativism has reduced the power of a church to nothing, for the Episcopalians have as much right to claim to be teaching the Truth as the Baptists and the Pentecostals. There is no real certainty in them, despite what Alex here claims. A false certainty is taught in certain churches because of the influence of Rationalism in the west. Prior to the Rationalism of the "Enlightenment" era, Christians didn't need epistemological certainty, and it certainly was not promised by the Scripture.

For the Orthodox, it is not important to know what is on the other side of Death, but WHO is on the other side of Death. Like a dog who knows his master is on the other side of the door, and so excitedly barks and jumps and runs back and forth, waiting for the master to open the door, so that he might join him, so is the Orthodox Christian. The dog doesn't know what is on the other side of the door. He only knows his master is there, and so he wishes to be there. I do not know exactly what is in eternity. I do not know whether I will have responsibilities there. I know only that my Master is there, and so I wish to be there. In the meantime, I have His guidance in the spiritual fathers of the Church, in the Scriptures and the Tradition which the Apostles gave me. I have what the Master left me. I need no more on this side of the door, for it is all to prepare me for that side, whatever it might contain.

 

[JM]

Thank you for giving a clear explanation. I found a short article in the Orthodox Study Bible that was also useful in explaining the differences between the Western understanding (Roman Catholic, Protestant, etc.) and the Eastern view. The OSB has been a good resource and I highly recommend it.

Thank you,

j