what is the evidence that universe is 13.7B years old?

[SelfSim]

I have a feeling you're letting science get in the way of your understanding.

Who me?

 

[Yttrium]

First of all, I'm calling it a "wormhole" so as to show how it could have been done.

If the light from distance stars arrived via wormhole (or the equivalent) to make the light get here much faster, the stars would look much closer. And bigger. The stars would fill the sky.

 

[sjastro]

LOL

You've got to be kidding me.

First of all, I'm calling it a "wormhole" so as to show how it could have been done.

But if it isn't a "wormhole" per se, then whatever it is, God did it.

God calls it a "window".

It is also referred to as a "ladder".

Genesis 28:12 And he dreamed, and behold a ladder set up on the earth, and the top of it reached to heaven: and behold the angels of God ascending and descending on it.

I'm well aware of the fact you can't build a ladder from Earth to Heaven and use it to climb back and forth in realtime.

In addition, I also point out how SOUND -- not just LIGHT -- did the same thing, when I used the passage about God hearing the groanings of the Hebrews in Egypt.

If "wormhole" is confusing you, then just use "windows of heaven" and let it go at that.

Either way, you're not going to understand.

Scientist travelling through a wormhole using ultra sophisticated equipment developed by Acme Pty Ltd.

 

[Bradskii]

First of all, I'm calling it a "wormhole" so as to show how it could have been done.

You can call it whatever you want. But its purpose is to speed the light from a distant star to us. That's how you said it could be done. Which you need because light that was created in transit would show a information about a star that didn't exist. That obviously doesn't work, so you've suggested a wormhole (in this and another thread) or window or whatever you want to call it to get around that problem.

So this 'window' allows the light from a star a million light years away to get to us in a fraction of the time. But it's needed only because you need the light here earlier. Because it was formed a million years ago.

Your solution requires you to accept that which you are trying to disprove. The problem you are solving is a problem you reject but one which your solution needs to accept.

I've never seen such a great example of someone dismantling their own argument. Cut and pasted for future reference.

 

[SelfSim]

Scientist travelling through a wormhole using ultra sophisticated equipment developed by Acme Pty Ltd.

A house tether!

 

[Astrid]

I understand all this.
Are you writing this with reference to the word game I suggested? I was trying to make it short and fun. This is not the main topic of the thread, so I will not go deep into the question. Actually, I only posted the word game as a reaction to SelfSim being strong in mathematics. To give some impression how the concept of positive mutations works. It was a side note.

p.s. I do not believe index fossils can describe old ages, when those index animals are still alive today. It simply collapses the idea. Just one reference click. Again, a side topic. i was describing my personal taste, and said that I found it hard to believe the whole geology timesetting, and gave a short expanation why. This could then be another elaboration on my personal taste with respect to geological "time setting".

Sorry, you may have come into the thread at a late moment. I think actually the main topic has been answered, and I will do a summing up. You are welcome to stay and partake in discussions if you like.

The thing about graptolites is a sleazy attempt at deception, however well it worked on you.

Graptolires of today are so different from the ancient fossil
forms that they were only recently shown to even be related.

 

[AV1611VET]

From a literalist's viewpoint, surely 'a window' is a window and 'a ladder' is a ladder(?)

And a door is a door(?)

John 10:9 I am the door: by me if any man enter in, he shall be saved, and shall go in and out, and find pasture.

A space tether!

Whatever confuses you and keeps you from understanding.

 

[sjastro]

A house tether!

The physics version of how a wormhole operates as opposed to AV's completely misunderstood version is to have the individual pass through the ladder instead of climbing it as demonstrated by this scientist.

 

[Bradskii]

If the light from distance stars arrived via wormhole (or the equivalent) to make the light get here much faster, the stars would look much closer. And bigger. The stars would fill the sky.

And all stars would appear to be 6,000 light years away. And I'm trying to work out how that would affect the red shift. I think it would effectively dissapear.

 

[AV1611VET]

If the light from distance stars arrived via wormhole (or the equivalent) to make the light get here much faster, the stars would look much closer. And bigger. The stars would fill the sky.

If I had a jillion flashlights, but wanted just a few of them to shine on its destination 47 billion light years away, so as to ... say ... form Orion or Gemini ... could I "wormhole" or "ladder" or "space tether" or whatever you want to call it, just seven or ten of those flashlights to accomplish my task?

And if I did, would that be deceptive?

 

[AV1611VET]

Your solution requires you to accept that which you are trying to disprove.

I beg your pardon?

Um ... who are the ones bending over backward trying to disprove me?

And what you're actually doing, is showing how myopic science is, as I'm noticing there's no single explanation or "object lesson" (window, wormhole, ladder, folded space) that can adequately explain how God did it.

Isaiah 55:8 For my thoughts are not your thoughts, neither are your ways my ways, saith the LORD.
55:9 For as the heavens are higher than the earth, so are my ways higher than your ways, and my thoughts than your thoughts.

 

[Yttrium]

If I had a jillion flashlights, but wanted just a few of them to shine on its destination 47 billion light years away, so as to ... say ... form Orion or Gemini ... could I "wormhole" or "ladder" or "space tether" or whatever you want to call it, just seven or ten of those flashlights to accomplish my task?

Could you? If you're omnipotent, sure, anything goes.

And if I did, would that be deceptive?

Making it appear to be a constellation in our own galaxy? That would be extremely deceptive, yes.

 

[AV1611VET]

The physics version of how a wormhole operates as opposed to AV's completely misunderstood version is to have the individual pass through the ladder instead of climbing it as demonstrated by this scientist.

You want me to make this even harder on you and have you explain sound?

Exodus 2:24 And God heard their groaning, and God remembered his covenant with Abraham, with Isaac, and with Jacob.

How'd God hear their groanings 47 billion lights years away, if [wormholes] don't exist and sound doesn't travel in space?

 

[AV1611VET]

And all stars would appear to be 6,000 light years away.

He's assuming that, since the stars from Orion got here pronto, that all the jilzillion stars should have too.

In other words, if God did one, He has to do them all.

 

[AV1611VET]

Could you? If you're omnipotent, sure, anything goes.

Making it appear to be a constellation in our own galaxy? That would be extremely deceptive, yes.

Wow -- suit yourself.

And as I told Brad, I could make this much harder using sound.

And as I also pointed out, if scientists ever found a way to do it, I'm sure they'd be nominated for a Nobel prize.

 

[Shemjaza]

I understand all this.

I don't think you do.

Are you writing this with reference to the word game I suggested? I was trying to make it short and fun. This is not the main topic of the thread, so I will not go deep into the question. Actually, I only posted the word game as a reaction to SelfSim being strong in mathematics. To give some impression how the concept of positive mutations works. It was a side note.

p.s. I do not believe index fossils can describe old ages, when those index animals are still alive today. It simply collapses the idea. Just one reference click. Again, a side topic. i was describing my personal taste, and said that I found it hard to believe the whole geology timesetting, and gave a short expanation why. This could then be another elaboration on my personal taste with respect to geological "time setting".

Sorry, you may have come into the thread at a late moment. I think actually the main topic has been answered, and I will do a summing up. You are welcome to stay and partake in discussions if you like.

I don't find lies and dishonesty fun.

The whole point of index fossils is not that all fossils are clear indicators of age, it's that some can be a good guideline.

Coelacanth is a called a living fossil because it resembles ancient fish from a branch assumed to be long extinct... but as I said, it's long been known to scientists that it can be misleading. But the Coelacanth itself is also not in any way the same species as its ancient relatives... it's not even the same genus, so even AV wouldn't label it as the "same kind".


To look at your comment, you didn't have a strong understanding of a topic so your just made up some evidence to support your personal preferences and when you were called on it, you said it didn't matter anyway.

 

[sjastro]

You want me to make this even harder on you and have you explain sound?

Exodus 2:24 And God heard their groaning, and God remembered his covenant with Abraham, with Isaac, and with Jacob.

How'd God hear their groanings 47 billion lights years away, if [wormholes] don't exist and sound doesn't travel in space?

Show me where it says in the Bible it was 47 billion light years distant.

 

[Yttrium]

Wow -- suit yourself.

?

We must not be understanding each other, because I thought my answer was the only obvious conclusion.

 

[Astrid]

I don't think you do.


I don't find lies and dishonesty fun.

The whole point of index fossils is not that all fossils are clear indicators of age, it's that some can be a good guideline.

Coelacanth is a called a living fossil because it resembles ancient fish from a branch assumed to be long extinct... but as I said, it's long been known to scientists that it can be misleading. But the Coelacanth itself is also not in any way the same species as its ancient relatives... it's not even the same genus, so even AV wouldn't label it as the "same kind".


To look at your comment, you didn't have a strong understanding of a topic so your just made up some evidence to support your personal preferences and when you were called on it, you said it didn't matter anyway.

ICR forca reference!
The purpose of ICR is deception.
( I checked to see where the link would lead)
A person with any semblance of education
in science would know that if the looked at
their site.
They obviously figure their readers are pretty
shallow minded and will buy any pellucid
nonsense if it twitches their itchin' ears.

 

[Astrid]

.