what is the evidence that universe is 13.7B years old?

PeterDona

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
Jan 13, 2010
742
181
Denmark
✟348,585.00
Faith
Catholic
Marital Status
Celibate
Grace to you :)

For many years I have heard the story related, that scientists from different branches at one meeting came together to see if they could agree on the age of the universe, and that they actually agreed on an age of 13:7B years, with many lines of evidence supporting this.

Does someone in here have that reference? I would especially like to know, which are those lines of evidence that corroborate that age.

Thanks in advance, regards Peter
 

PeterDona

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
Jan 13, 2010
742
181
Denmark
✟348,585.00
Faith
Catholic
Marital Status
Celibate
yes, so, this may be it and not much more (?)
Calculating back from observing the rate of expansion of the universe at the present point, again derived from observing the red shift.
It was just, that when I worked on my graduate thesis 25 years ago, one of my fellow thesis students said that scientists from many fields had come together and agreed that the universe is those 13.8 billion years old. It may actually be an urban legend of some kind then.
 
Upvote 0

harry rotter

Member
Sep 27, 2022
18
6
43
Parnu
✟1,995.00
Country
Estonia
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Celibate
hat scientists from many fields had come together and agreed that the universe is those 13.8 billion years old. It may actually be an urban legend of some kind then.
It sounds extremely plausible. They often are coming together and decide on values. For example, in Metrology area of science. And in case of Higgs Boson, they are using the 5-sigma rule. It is agreement, not "logic".
 
Upvote 0

chilehed

Veteran
Jul 31, 2003
4,711
1,384
63
Michigan
✟237,116.00
Faith
Catholic
Marital Status
Married
There's a ton of evidence for it: the size of the observable universe vs. the recession velocity of the most distant galaxies; age of the moon rocks and meteorites we've collected; the orbital mechanics of certain asteroids indicate that they came from a single location millions of years ago; the age of the stars in distant star clusters; measurements of the cosmic microwave background; measurements of the large scale structure of the universe.

And there's absolutely no evidence for a young universe, other than false conclusions based on erroneous readings of religious texts that were never intended to be used as scientific references.
 
Upvote 0

PeterDona

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
Jan 13, 2010
742
181
Denmark
✟348,585.00
Faith
Catholic
Marital Status
Celibate
There's a ton of evidence for it: the size of the observable universe vs. the recession velocity of the most distant galaxies; age of the moon rocks and meteorites we've collected; the orbital mechanics of certain asteroids indicate that they came from a single location millions of years ago; the age of the stars in distant star clusters; measurements of the cosmic microwave background; measurements of the large scale structure of the universe.

And there's absolutely no evidence for a young universe, other than false conclusions based on erroneous readings of religious texts that were never intended to be used as scientific references.
I am totally opposite to your conceptions listed here, as you may speculate from my "subscript" (young earth creationist by faith and by interest). But the purpose was actually not a discussion of the evidence, but rather that maybe someone knew the reference directly to that meeting. I watched a video on youtube yesterday where the speaker related the story of this meeting also, but he did not elaborate.
It must have been this video with Francis Collins: https://www.yout ube.com/watch?v=HaEQyNeaFZs (remove a blank space)
 
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums

LightLoveHope

Jesus leads us to life
Oct 6, 2018
1,474
458
London
✟79,782.00
Country
United Kingdom
Faith
Baptist
Marital Status
Married
I am totally opposite to your conceptions listed here, as you may speculate from my "subscript" (young earth creationist by faith and by interest). But the purpose was actually not a discussion of the evidence, but rather that maybe someone knew the reference directly to that meeting. I watched a video on youtube yesterday where the speaker related the story of this meeting also, but he did not elaborate.
It must have been this video with Francis Collins: https://www.yout ube.com/watch?v=HaEQyNeaFZs (remove a blank space)
I agree with you that the actual reason for dating the universe to 13billion years is a convoluted projection.

The difficulty is it is based on theoretical physics and untested observations of light coming from other galaxies. The cumlative affect of all the theories taking our known laws of gravity and energy release in electro magnetic radiation, the observations where interpreted in our current solar system framework.

You will notice that the models they produced for spinning galaxies and how they should look based on the observed matter seen, they should be shaped differently. The models suggest a massive gravitational source if present would give the required shape. They call this dark matter and dark energy, which makes up 95% of everything, except it is undetectable.

You may be aware that this kind of metaphysics is religion not science. So your real question is what makes this house of cards stand up. The answer is it appears to be simplest explanation in scientific equations, so it is the one they are sticking with.

My problem with 6,000 year creation is some simple local physical affects. The milky way galaxy is about 100,000 light years across. So the most distant stars we can see sent out their light 100,000 years ago.
So in our simplest understanding the local galaxy must be much older than this. What is also ironic, is some theoretical physicists are suggesting this is all a simulation or put another way, invented to appear a particular way but actually it is just a projection.

A simple problem I came across. If you can infinitely divide an item to smaller points, you come to a limit where it is either one or the other, or else it never ends. Quantum physics seems to define this point of the end of division. I suspect in reality chaos and variety are limited, and are creations to allow exploration of the possible in a limited world God has created.

Physicists are so atheistic in their convictions, they need to invent the multi-world hypothesis, or infinite variation and dislike real limits or absolute constants that are immutable to create life. To admit immutable reality, is to admit a creation and a creator, which they hate.

A funny side proposition is distant galaxies rotate as they do because its easier to create and show, not because they really exist.

I have to laugh at Elon Musk's idea of going to Mars. We went to the moon 50 years ago, and have not got further. Apart from experimental playground, its earth and its complexity we need to focus on.

A side note that a lot of people miss, science has shown everything is 99% nothing. Everything that is looked at is made up of something smaller that is mainly a force and not solid in our macro sense of solid. So it is not a leap to suggest the framework in which we exist is not as restrained as we imagine or experience. Take light. A photon is one unit of radiation, but that's really all we know. It is all so weird when the world we live in seems so concrete and certain.....

God bless you
 
Last edited:
Upvote 0

chilehed

Veteran
Jul 31, 2003
4,711
1,384
63
Michigan
✟237,116.00
Faith
Catholic
Marital Status
Married
But the purpose was actually not a discussion of the evidence, but rather that maybe someone knew the reference directly to that meeting.
Ah, I was going more off of the title of the thread.

Meeting, as in "the international conference where all the geologists and astrophysicists met to get their lies straight"? I'll put Ruth's Chris ribeye up against a Happy Meal that it didn't happen.
 
Upvote 0

PeterDona

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
Jan 13, 2010
742
181
Denmark
✟348,585.00
Faith
Catholic
Marital Status
Celibate
My problem with 6,000 year creation is some simple local physical affects. The milky way galaxy is about 100,000 light years across. So the most distant stars we can see sent out their light 100,000 years ago.
So in our simplest understanding the local galaxy must be much older than this. What is also ironic, is some theoretical physicists are suggesting this is all a simulation or put another way, invented to appear a particular way but actually it is just a projection.
I did find all your thoughts interesting. But to focus on this, which as to my understanding is still the strongest evidence in some way for an old universe. But maybe we cannot even begin to speak about what we think "old" means.

The idea that God should create light on its way is of course ridiculous. I cannot think that God should need to cover up his tracks.

However, oddly enough, going even further out, with the hubble space telescope, I read that they see now galaxies at a distance of 20B light years or something. And these are not baby galaxies but fully developed galaxies. So maybe the idea that looking far into space will also provide a view back in time, must take a hit.

There is a sentence in book of psalms, that God "stretches out the heavens". I think, some of my questions are
- is speed of light really as constant as we want it to be?
- how would one in scientific terms describe the stretching of the heavens? And could it be observable?
 
Upvote 0

HARK!

שמע
Christian Forums Staff
Supervisor
Site Supporter
Oct 29, 2017
55,342
8,144
US
✟1,099,904.00
Country
United States
Faith
Messianic
Marital Status
Private
MOD HAT ON

241656_73a4b943f6c592cdf71a88c50d5eb4d8.jpg


This thread has been moved per the OP's request.

MOD HAT OFF
 
Upvote 0

AV1611VET

SCIENCE CAN TAKE A HIKE
Site Supporter
Jun 18, 2006
3,851,138
51,515
Guam
✟4,910,135.00
Country
United States
Faith
Baptist
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Republican
Does someone in here have that reference? I would especially like to know, which are those lines of evidence that corroborate that age.
Place your open hand sideways at the bridge of your nose: index finger touching you, little finger farthest away.

You will see two hands, not one.

Therefore the universe is 13.7 billion years old. :doh:
 
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums

AV1611VET

SCIENCE CAN TAKE A HIKE
Site Supporter
Jun 18, 2006
3,851,138
51,515
Guam
✟4,910,135.00
Country
United States
Faith
Baptist
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Republican
The milky way galaxy is about 100,000 light years across. So the most distant stars we can see sent out their light 100,000 years ago.
I'm going to disagree here.

Yes -- our galaxy may be about 100,000 light years across; but that doesn't mean the light was sent out 100,000 years ago.

If God wanted us to see certain stars and constellations, He could have created "worm holes" -- or "windows of heaven" as the Bible calls them -- for the light to travel through.

The same for sound.

Notice here in this passage, where the people of Egypt are sighing, and God is hearing them in real time from a distance of some 45 billion light years away.

Exodus 2:23 And it came to pass in process of time, that the king of Egypt died: and the children of Israel sighed by reason of the bondage, and they cried, and their cry came up unto God by reason of the bondage.
24 And God heard their groaning, and God remembered his covenant with Abraham, with Isaac, and with Jacob.
25 And God looked upon the children of Israel, and God had respect unto them.


Keep in mind that sound does not travel in space; therefore that "window/wormhole" must have been near ground level.

And then, of course, there's "Jacob's ladder" as well.

Genesis 28:12 And he dreamed, and behold a ladder set up on the earth, and the top of it reached to heaven: and behold the angels of God ascending and descending on it.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Andre_b
Upvote 0

AV1611VET

SCIENCE CAN TAKE A HIKE
Site Supporter
Jun 18, 2006
3,851,138
51,515
Guam
✟4,910,135.00
Country
United States
Faith
Baptist
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Republican
I've noted elsewhere that it is impossible for creationists, especially yecs, to be both well informed and intellectually honest.
Would you know it, if they were?

And if it's "impossible," as you say it is, do they at least get credit for trying?
 
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums

chilehed

Veteran
Jul 31, 2003
4,711
1,384
63
Michigan
✟237,116.00
Faith
Catholic
Marital Status
Married
If God wanted us to see certain stars and constellations, He could have created "worm holes" -- or "windows of heaven" as the Bible calls them -- for the light to travel through.
This is the same kind of magical thinking absurdity that Marshall Applewhite would spout. God could also have sent glittering alien spaceships to take up position above us like the Burning Man drone show, and there's as much evidence that he did that as there is for your worm holes idea (or for the idea that there was an alien ship trailing Hale-Bopp).
 
Upvote 0