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what is the evidence that universe is 13.7B years old?

Andre_b

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There you do with the Nazis again!!!!

Man you really are confused are you? You don't understand what comparing false systems is or what? Should I compare you with other ignorant science claiming to be science or will that make you ignore the comparison of the false system and simply focus on the Nazi part. You do on purpose to deflect from the actual evidence and points of the information to try and deflect to something I'm not saying. Typical. Re-read the post.
 
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Andre_b

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Wow, you wrote a lot in that post, Andre. That's amazing!! What amazes me even more is that it looks like you did so without reading a word of what I said in my previous post, because from the context of what I said, you responded to none of it and proceeded to move along your own tangents, ones which I didn't even touch upon.

:dontcare:

You claim quoting the bible is a tangent when we were clearly talking about the importance of the commandments for Christians. Looks like you just want to deflect and avoid the reasons. re-read the post and verses CAREFULLY. You need it.
 
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2PhiloVoid

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You claim quoting the bible is a tangent when we were clearly talking about the importance of the commandments for Christians. Looks like you just want to deflect and avoid the reasons. re-read the post and verses CAREFULLY. You need it.

Where or from whom have you learned your hermeneutics and theology, Andre?
 
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Hans Blaster

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again light measurement is a distance. Yes I know it’s a small measure of distance. It’s still measuring distance. It isn’t proof of how that light was already in motion or not. Furthermore, the way they do measurements is also problematic for measuring things more than 100 light years away. Since they use trigonometry, the angle to measure the difference of the distance of a star 6 months apart do to the rotation of earth around the sun, the distance is too far to even make enough of a difference in the angle. Using other methods also has flaws.

Again, because light has a finite speed of propagation, distance and time are equivalent. You are *always* looking back in time, and for extra-solar astronomical objects, the "look-back time" is measured in years.

The Gaia mission has measured millions of stars via parallax out to a distance of several thousand parsecs.

Sticking purely with geometric methods, there are more distant measurements to light echos and expanding supernova ejecta.
 
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Andre_b

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Where or from whom have you learned your hermeneutics and theology, Andre?

Easy, read the bible, it's telling you straight up. Moses wrote laws in a book which God told him, and God wrote the commandments with his own finger. What just for fun? It didn't matter to separate the two? He did that for nothing? Not only that, the Ten Commandments were place INSIDE the ark and the book of Moses BESIDE the ark. Again, just for the sake of it and for absolutely no reason separate all of this. Went out of his way to give those specific instructions and details to waste time?

It's not about theology it's about what the word is literally saying like keeping God's commandments are the duty of all mankind Ecclesiastes 12:13, but you say it isn't? You said it was only for the time of Moses apparently.
 
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sjastro

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Man you really are confused are you? You don't understand what comparing false systems is or what? Should I compare you with other ignorant science claiming to be science or will that make you ignore the comparison of the false system and simply focus on the Nazi part. You do on purpose to deflect from the actual evidence and points of the information to try and deflect to something I'm not saying. Typical. Re-read the post.
Why don't you try quoting my post in full instead of cherry picking.
You made a comment which was factually wrong about parallax distance limits which I corrected.
If want to make low brow arguments that everything you disagree with is the result of false systems then take your nonsense to a conspiracy forum.
 
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2PhiloVoid

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Easy, read the bible, it's telling you straight up. Moses wrote laws in a book which God told him, and God wrote the commandments with his own finger. What just for fun? It didn't matter to separate the two? He did that for nothing? Not only that, the Ten Commandments were place INSIDE the ark and the book of Moses BESIDE the ark. Again, just for the sake of it and for absolutely no reason separate all of this. Went out of his way to give those specific instructions and details to waste time?

It's not about theology it's about what the word is literally saying like keeping God's commandments are the duty of all mankind Ecclesiastes 12:13, but you say it isn't? You said it was only for the time of Moses apparently.

I didn't say any of that, so I'd prefer if you only accuse me of what I actually do. Also, I also would prefer if you answer my questions rather than obfuscating and beating around the bush.

Do you want to go on record and say to the rest of us that the Bible is the ONLY book you read?
 
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Andre_b

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Again, because light has a finite speed of propagation, distance and time are equivalent. You are *always* looking back in time, and for extra-solar astronomical objects, the "look-back time" is measured in years.

The Gaia mission has measured millions of stars via parallax out to a distance of several thousand parsecs.

Sticking purely with geometric methods, there are more distant measurements to light echos and expanding supernova ejecta.

Sure, you're looking at the light where it was set in its position of when it was created to see the object. Your last comment doesn't change anything. it's the same problem you imply. Even when you look "back in time" it's still seeing the same thing since the light is the same thing.

Furthermore, scientists don't know if they are having fishbowl effects as stated by Einstein as well. There are many other things to think about like that. Why was the size of the universe apparently 100,000 light years when the universe was only 3 years old, breaking the laws of physics? There are many phenomenon's like this to assume things. And not only that, it's also an assumption that it was... because the theory of everything never been discovered still is a hole in the theory, maybe because there's something to our physical reality that will never explain that part and messes up the entire theory. Then add in the "dark matter" never observed, seen or any remote evidence for it.

Even more, light has the possibility to speed up and slow down. How do you know there aren't different phenomenon's in different solar systems or galaxies or even black holes. Because clearly black holes apparently light cannot escape. Therefore, gravity affects it and can be tremendously affect light if even 186 000 mi/s can be stopped, that's incredible. So obviously it must have the possibility to speed it up possibly like the slingshot used to speed up objects sent to other planets in our solar system. How do you know all the lights travelling through all these planets, suns, galaxies, black holes, etc etc, doesn't do anything or warp what we see? So many assumptions basically these "scientists" invent all kinds of stories just to feel good about themselves.


The speed of light in space is said to be constant
Note that the speed of sound in air varies, the speed of sound in water varies, and the speed of seismic waves in rock varies. But it is said that the speed of light in space does not vary. Search the internet and you can find lots of articles saying this. See for example Luke Mastin’s article on the speed of light and the principle of relativity. He talks about the Michelson-Morley experiment, which “unexpectedly demonstrated that light travels at the same speed regardless of whether it was measured in the direction of the Earth’s motion or at right angles to it”. Mastin also says when light moves from one medium to another, its speed “can of course change depending on the new medium’s index of refraction, and this “bending” of light is essentially how lenses work”. However he doesn’t mention gravitational lensing. Instead he says regardless of the speed of a light source and regardless of your speed, the “light still travels at a steady 300,000 km/s, completely contrary to classical physics and common sense”. He also says it was the young Einstein’s genius to explain why. And that in 1905, Einstein realized that “the whole idea of aether as a medium for light to travel in was totally unnecessary”. It sounds good. Especially since “the constant speed of light was to become one of the two main planks of his Special Theory of Relativity”. Unfortunately there’s a problem. A big problem. How big? The size of Texas.

1912: “On the other hand I am of the view that the principle of the constancy of the velocity of light can be maintained only insofar as one restricts oneself to spatio-temporal regions of constant gravitational potential”.

1913: “I arrived at the result that the velocity of light is not to be regarded as independent of the gravitational potential. Thus the principle of the constancy of the velocity of light is incompatible with the equivalence hypothesis”.

1914: “In the case where we drop the postulate of the constancy of the velocity of light, there exists, a priori, no privileged coordinate systems.”

1915: “the writer of these lines is of the opinion that the theory of relativity is still in need of generalization, in the sense that the principle of the constancy of the velocity of light is to be abandoned”.

1916: “In the second place our result shows that, according to the general theory of relativity, the law of the constancy of the velocity of light in vacuo, which constitutes one of the two fundamental assumptions in the special theory of relativity and to which we have already frequently referred, cannot claim any unlimited validity”.

1920: “Second, this consequence shows that the law of the constancy of the speed of light no longer holds, according to the general theory of relativity, in spaces that have gravitational fields. As a simple geometric consideration shows, the curvature of light rays occurs only in spaces where the speed of light is spatially variable”.

The last quote is the English translation of what Einstein said in German in 1916: “die Ausbreitungsge-schwindigkeit des Lichtes mit dem Orte variiert”. That translates to “the propagation speed of light with the place varies”. Einstein never did abandon his variable speed of light. The people who tell you that grew up before the Einstein digital papers were online. The general relativity they were taught wasn’t the same as Einstein’s.

You seem to quote one sided science but ignore the rest of the evidence. I wonder why?
 
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Andre_b

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I didn't say any of that, so I'd prefer if you only accuse me of what I actually do. Also, I also would prefer if you answer my questions rather than obfuscating and beating around the bush.

Do you want to go on record and say to the rest of us that the Bible is the ONLY book you read?

I'm asking you questions. not complicated. Think.
 
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Hans Blaster

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(To separate the topics, I had to break the quite mid-sentence.)
The point is, the origins science is so mich full of stories

No need for stories, just data, physics, mathematical models, and theories. I have no problem sticking to those.

and assumptions and then they play with numbers pretending it says exactly what they claim

This sounds an awful lot like a charge of scientific misconduct. Evidence to back this charge would be appreciated.

yet there’s multiple other theories and multiple people that have always said that the Big Bang has been very problematic in many ways,

There aren't any other good theories any more. If you have a specific example of an alternative theory you think works better to fit the data, do tell.

sadly people make it as a religion

No one needs to make the BB into a religion (prehaps a few fools do), certainly not I or anyone I've seen posting here. The only religion I've seen here is people trying to mash the BB with Christianity. I don't need that.

when there’s too many problems and even contradictory elements. Especially the breaking the laws of physics part.

Care to mention one of these "broken" laws of physics?
 
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Andre_b

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The Gaia mission has measured millions of stars via parallax out to a distance of
I didn't say any of that, so I'd prefer if you only accuse me of what I actually do. Also, I also would prefer if you answer my questions rather than obfuscating and beating around the bush.

Do you want to go on record and say to the rest of us that the Bible is the ONLY book you read?

.

That's literally nothing in comparison of the distance they are apparently measuring.
I didn't say any of that, so I'd prefer if you only accuse me of what I actually do. Also, I also would prefer if you answer my questions rather than obfuscating and beating around the bush.

Do you want to go on record and say to the rest of us that the Bible is the ONLY book you read?

You must be ignorant if you believe the Bible is the only book I read. Have you even looked at the information I provided from the science itself? Or do you just close your eyes when I do? I was an atheist for years bud.

Not sure if you have read the bible since apparently you don't need to keep the commandments to love God. You just said the commandments were for Moses. Ecclesiastes 12:13 says otherwise.
 
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Hans Blaster

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I'm only going to respond to your first paragraph since you clearly copypasted (without citation) a large block of text and I can only be certain that you wrote this one.

Sure, you're looking at the light where it was set in its position of when it was created to see the object. Your last comment doesn't change anything. it's the same problem you imply. Even when you look "back in time" it's still seeing the same thing since the light is the same thing.

What on Earth does "it's still seeing the same thing since the light is the same thing" mean at all?

For your "in flight" light thing to work with parallax measurements it must be traveling from the distant object to 2 different places. (Both end of the Earth's orbit. Actually with Gaia the measurement is continuous along the orbit, so the light has to be traveling to all points on the Earth's orbit and seem to be coming from the distance measure by the parallax.)
 
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Andre_b

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(To separate the topics, I had to break the quite mid-sentence.)


No need for stories, just data, physics, mathematical models, and theories. I have no problem sticking to those.



This sounds an awful lot like a charge of scientific misconduct. Evidence to back this charge would be appreciated.



There aren't any other good theories any more. If you have a specific example of an alternative theory you think works better to fit the data, do tell.



No one needs to make the BB into a religion (prehaps a few fools do), certainly not I or anyone I've seen posting here. The only religion I've seen here is people trying to mash the BB with Christianity. I don't need that.



Care to mention one of these "broken" laws of physics?

Lol the scientific misconduct is all the holes in the theory and almost the entire theory is a story. Think bud. Use logic with the data I provided you, evidence from the scientists themselves. You even said there's multiple theories. Yep all dozens of storytelling because none of it makes sense to them trying to figure out a naturalistic way to prove creation. They could all be wrong and not even close for all you know.

As for breaking the laws of physics I gave you multiple evidences already. You must be joking or just causing discord instead, because you pretend like I provided no scientific data. There is no theory of everything THEREFORE ALL OF THE ASSUMPTIONS OF THE BIG BANG IS ONE HUGE GUESS. The theory of everything is absolutely required to know because it is impossible without it. Apparently scientists say nothing can go faster than the speed of light but the universe did at the beginning by a very high amount.
Universe size at YEAR 3: 100,000 LIGHT YEARS ACROSS. think for a second about this.

No dark matter ever observed. Huge hole in the entire theory once again. Lots of it is just a major fantasy. Let's conveniently leave out a bunch of things in the equation and claim we know what happened. Arrogance of the highest order. sorry but it's bad.
 
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Andre_b

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I'm only going to respond to your first paragraph since you clearly copypasted (without citation) a large block of text and I can only be certain that you wrote this one.



What on Earth does "it's still seeing the same thing since the light is the same thing" mean at all?

For your "in flight" light thing to work with parallax measurements it must be traveling from the distant object to 2 different places. (Both end of the Earth's orbit. Actually with Gaia the measurement is continuous along the orbit, so the light has to be traveling to all points on the Earth's orbit and seem to be coming from the distance measure by the parallax.)

Bro, light is seen from everywhere in transit from whatever source it comes from. You wake up today and see light, therefore it must only be a few seconds old since you see it only what you woke up according to your theory. Think of what you see now, when the universe was created ALL OF THE LIGHT THAT YOU SEE WOULD HAVE BEEN SET IN PLACE TO BE ABLE TO SEE THE DISTANT THINGS. I don't understand how you don't get this. Instantaneous light, in its path already, not complicated. You make it complicated because the scientists taught you how to think one way and in a box.
 
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AV1611VET

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It's unfortunate there some who view science as the enemy and worse still consider Christians who embrace science as not being true Christians.
Maybe they need a lesson from Solomon?

1 Kings 4:29 And God gave Solomon wisdom and understanding exceeding much, and largeness of heart, even as the sand that is on the sea shore.
30 And Solomon's wisdom excelled the wisdom of all the children of the east country, and all the wisdom of Egypt.
31 For he was wiser than all men; than Ethan the Ezrahite, and Heman, and Chalcol, and Darda, the sons of Mahol: and his fame was in all nations round about.
32 And he spake three thousand proverbs: and his songs were a thousand and five.

33 And he spake of trees, from the cedar tree that is in Lebanon even unto the hyssop that springeth out of the wall: he spake also of beasts, and of fowl, and of creeping things, and of fishes.
34 And there came of all people to hear the wisdom of Solomon, from all kings of the earth, which had heard of his wisdom.
 
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Hans Blaster

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As for breaking the laws of physics I gave you multiple evidences already. You must be joking or just causing discord instead of entertainment nonsense as you stated before. sick really.

Haven't seen any "evidences" (sic). and I'm not joking.

There is no theory of everything THEREFORE ALL OF THE ASSUMPTIONS OF THE BIG BANG IS ONE HUGE GUESS. The theory of everything is absolutely required to know because it is impossible without it.

Nothing about the Big Bang Theory is dependent on the existence of a "Theory of Everything" or unified theory of particle physics and forces. Nothing.

Apparently scientists say nothing can go faster than the speed of light but the universe did at the beginning by a very high amount.
Universe size at YEAR 3: 100,000 LIGHT YEARS ACROSS. think for a second about this.

Oh, I've thought about it for a while. It's not a problem. There is nothing in the Einstein field equations that put a limit on the expansion or contraction rate for spacetime. Motion within space, yes; expansion, no.

No dark matter ever observed. Huge hole in the entire theory once again.

As I stated earlier, there is plenty of observation of dark matter by astronomers. In spiral galaxies, in galaxy clusters, etc. Not sure why you are rejecting those astronomical observations.

Lots of it is just a major fantasy. Let's conveniently leave out a bunch of things in the equation and claim we know what happened.

Again. Produce some evidence of this. You haven't. Specificity is *required*.

Arrogance of the highest order. sorry but it's bad.

The arrogance I've seen is the claims of superior knowledge and denigration of the knowledge of others from someone who knows less about cosmology than I've forgotten.
 
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AV1611VET

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Andre_b

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Haven't seen any "evidences" (sic). and I'm not joking.



Nothing about the Big Bang Theory is dependent on the existence of a "Theory of Everything" or unified theory of particle physics and forces. Nothing.



Oh, I've thought about it for a while. It's not a problem. There is nothing in the Einstein field equations that put a limit on the expansion or contraction rate for spacetime. Motion within space, yes; expansion, no.



As I stated earlier, there is plenty of observation of dark matter by astronomers. In spiral galaxies, in galaxy clusters, etc. Not sure why you are rejecting those astronomical observations.



Again. Produce some evidence of this. You haven't. Specificity is *required*.



The arrogance I've seen is the claims of superior knowledge and denigration of the knowledge of others from someone who knows less about cosmology than I've forgotten.

Why don't you provide the evidence? oh right you have none. All you do is quote what I say, every line and pretend like you debunk it. it's really ignorant. You are the one not providing science or evidence. Just you talking through your hat storytelling.

There's even theories that the universe had no beginning. If that would be true, the big bang would be the biggest hoax in assumptions. Actually it's all assumptions, major major assumptions.
 
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