What is the end goal for creationists these days?

[PsychoSarah]

Your poem has some truth to it, we should practice what we preach. Your error: We can know God and He gave us His WORD. If you want to know God, just look at Jesus, the exact expression and glory in the full.

I'd look at Jesus, but alas, the various paintings of him don't match up with the biblical description. A pity, that.

We are not grasping at empty air, heaven is for real. Maybe you should watch that movie of that little boy who went there, Todd Burpo.

The media coverage of this story is very... interesting. Even the boy's father makes it very clear that the kid never died or even was near death on the operating table. Also, the "grasping at empty air" part of my poem refers to people trying to claim to have knowledge they don't actually have, such as a profound understanding of god's will so many Christians claim to have... yet they disagree with each other. This poem is actually the last segment of my much longer poem "The Seven Sins of the Faithful", with the portion I have in my signature being the part that covers pride.

The fact of the matter is, no one has actually died and been brought back to tell the tale of the experience. Sure, people have had their heart stop, but their brain never quit working. Furthermore, accounts of those near death experiences vary greatly, and tend to be in line with the personal beliefs of the people experiencing them. Hindus don't see the Christian god or the Christian hell in a near death experience. There is a common trend of people having a positive experience as they approach death, and this is considered a last ditch coping mechanism on the brain's part... and not everyone has it. Yes, theists and atheists alike have faced the void head on, only to be pulled out of it just in the nick of time.

Besides, I wouldn't consider the account of a person with a compromised brain to be all that reliable.

Life has no meaning or purpose if we just go through all these motions, learn all this stuff, grow in maturity and then just die and lose it all.

And? You not liking the idea of not being important sounds like a personal problem. I counter that with this statement: you aren't important even if the god you believe in exists. You are so unimportant that this god will leave your salvation to chance, and would be willing to toss you in the lake of fire on the basis of belief. And that goes for pretty much everyone, doesn't it?

Our purpose is to reconcile with God through Jesus and then the gift He gives is eternal life. You could die tomorrow - what would your life mean if that happened?

A lot of wasted time and emotional distress on the part of other people. However, people have meaningless deaths all the time, like people that die trying to save other people only to add one more to the number of victims. Not every aspect of existence suddenly becomes bright and cheery by believing in the same god as you; it makes the death of non-Christians much more depressing.

You can say, we just live to contribute to our children and the next generation, which is admirable and true but they die too. The past generation did all that put this generation seem to not give a hoot about the past, the old ways. Decades go by and the younger generation doesn't even care about history or even the last decade, they are the progressives moving forward, discovering new ways they think are better. And so passing it on is also futile. Solomon said, Everything under the sun is vanity of vanities and chasing after the wind ... without God.

I'm afraid that your entire post was, unfortunately, for naught, because it appeals to a common human desire I personally don't have; the desire to be important. That is, I am entirely content with the idea that none of my actions may matter in the long term. This isn't to say that I demand that I be insignificant in order to be happy, only that I don't need to be significant to be happy.

 

[USincognito]

Sure, creationists can say as many false things as they like.

It's kind of like their thing.

 

[dmmesdale]

I think you may need to look at the statistics of relious affiliation in Russia and China.

Produce documentation where the Chinese government acknowledges universal human rights derived from God. Otherwise, it is the rule of men over men by the use of alleged legit force which is the catalyst for a slave state. Religion is at the courtesy of the Government and can be outlawed anytime for any reason. It is not recognized as a right derived from God. These things are not all that hard to understand.
The government can drag in any Christian or church body for no other reason than existing and has. In the atheist state, they believe their rights come from men, not God. King is law; not law is king. It is primitive, regressive.

 

[Larniavc]

Produce documentation where the Chinese government acknowledges universal human rights derived from God. Otherwise, it is the rule of men over men by the use of alleged legit force which is the catalyst for a slave state. Religion is at the courtesy of the Government and can be outlawed anytime for any reason. It is not recognized as a right derived from God. These things are not all that hard to understand.
The government can drag in any Christian or church body for no other reason than existing and has. In the atheist state, they believe their rights come from men, not God. King is law; not law is king. It is primitive, regressive.

Ooookay....
Human rights are not derived from God.

Unless you mean to suggest the bit in the Bible that talks about keeping slaves? Or how to treata rape victim? Or how to... well you get the idea.

Those human rights?

Or the modern conceptualisation discussed by Locke?

Nothing to do with God, old son.

 

[Ronald]

You seem to be quite the expert on me. How do you square the notion that many more secular countries than the USA (the majority of western democracies) enjoy high standards of living?

Neither myself, my wife, or indeed any of my close friends are religious and we all seem to be doing very well. We all have degrees and good jobs and stable families.

Is that what you mean by ignorant, blind and foolish?

And I think you may need to research when and where democracy was developed: it’s not America.

Europe was not always secular, belief in Christ had a great influence on the many who were inspired to do great things. How many churches are there in Europe? Many still have faith.
But Europe is luke warm now about their faith. They are becoming very anti- Muslim lately - I wonder why? Economies are fragile as is ours. The world is a ticking time bomb about ready to blow. Maybe you think we'll evolve into a peaceful world?
I don't know you, I was making a general statement. Either you are with Christ or you are against Him. Therefore you do not attribute all that you have to Him or give thanks to God ( being an atheist) - you don't have a clue what life is all about, because you ignor and reject God. Isn't that where the word ignorant comes from, to ignor something? God is pretty significant and important to ignor.
I never implied democracy started in America, but our nation was certainly blessed for many generations and we were very thankful, but things have changed haven't they? And just in the last ten years.
You are doing OK, good for now. Remember that evidence you've been looking for is all around you but more is coming.

 

[juvenissun]

This is why Evolutionist will not leave Creationists alone.

Nothing new. Good luck.

 

[pitabread]

So, grown up. Leave Creationists alone.

If creationists promise to stop trying to wreck science education, then sure.

 

[Ronald]

The audio didn't come out. I remember that movie. Paul Lind, funny guy, was talking about his daughter, Ann Margaret and the younger generation. You know, it all started to happen around that time. In 1962, they took prayer out if schools, in 67' the Nettles started tripping out on drugs and the drug revolution exploded ( even I was a hippy teenager in the early 70s), in 74' abortion was legalized and before that psychiatrists viewed homosexuality as mental disorder, now gay marriage. And I think that is the last straw that will break the camels back. A lot of junk, immorality, liberalism has tainted this generation ... We are going the wrong way ... I think soon many will all be singing "Bye, bye miss American Pie drove my Chevy to the levy, but the levy was dry and good old boys were drinking whisky and rye singing this will be the day that I die ..."

 

[dmmesdale]

Ooookay....
Human rights are not derived from God.

As an atheist, you believe your rights are from men. You must also reject, as a matter of principle, the DOI justification for Independence which assumes rights are from God and transcends the rule of kings.

Unless you mean to suggest the bit in the Bible that talks about keeping slaves?

What about it? The practice was regulated for the benefit of the so-called slave or indentured servant. Eye for eye is a limitation which forbids two eyes for one.

Or how to treata rape victim? Or how to... well you get the idea.

It sounds to me like you are assuming females have a universal right not to be raped by men? If that is the case and given your paradigm their rights derived from men, then the right does not exist unless ruling authorities deem it. If they allow then on what basis is force rape of women wrong? Is there a contradiction here that has free rent in your head? Contradictions do not exist, and when you have a contradiction then you need to check your premise. If you are assuming all women everywhere have rights not to be forcibly raped, then you are arguing for God so which is it? For one do your judgements take effect backwards in time? Do women have a universal right not to be force raped or do they not? I would like an answer and an explanation.
Do your judgements take effect backwards in time as it relates to slavery and rape? On what natural basis?

Those human rights?

Universal human rights that apply to all persons everywhere. Human rights that transcend the king or ruling authorities. For example the universal human right of women not to be forced raped by men. It applies to all women everywhere. Because it applies to all women everywhere, it transcends the rule of men and is derived from God.

Or the modern conceptualisation discussed by Locke?

Quote.
Among these fundamental natural rights, Locke said, are "life, liberty, and property." ... The purpose of government, Locke wrote, is to secure and protect the God-given inalienable natural rights of the people. For their part, the people must obey the laws of their rulers.

Close enuf. Would add it involves consent of the governed.

Nothing to do with God, old son.

And everything to do with man which is the rule of men over men by use of legit force which is a government fit for slaves, not free men. So, why do you presuppose human rights in the first place when your adherence is to a natural slave state?

 

[Larniavc]

It sounds to me like you are assuming females have a universal right not to be raped by men?

Is this on your ‘welcome to Jesus’ flyer?

This is why a lot of people don’t think morals come from the Bible.

 

[Larniavc]

Do women have a universal right not to be force raped or do they not? I would like an answer and an explanation.

No woman or man or child should be raped.

That you need this explaining is simply baffling.

 

[Larniavc]

Because it applies to all women everywhere, it transcends the rule of men and is derived from God.

That does not follow. It does not have to be derived from God. It could be derived from Allah or not derived but be an emergent property of social living.

 

[Larniavc]

And everything to do with man which is the rule of men over men by use of legit force which is a government fit for slaves, not free men.

Now I understand.

Bet you hate paying taxes, right?

 

[dmmesdale]

No woman or man or child should be raped.

That you need this explaining is simply baffling.

Don't make it about me. I would like an explanation because every person who rapes believes he has the right. It happened in Russia under Stalin to women entering the Gulags. They were gang-raped by the guards, and it was all legal. So why are you right and they wrong? Why do you assume your judgements take effect backwards in time?

 

[dmmesdale]

That does not follow. It does not have to be derived from God. It could be derived from Allah or not derived but be an emergent property of social living.

LOL! There is no emergent property of social living. Everything you have is by the grace of those who do not take it from you by force. I don't think you can deal with the consequences of your paradigm.

 

[Speedwell]

As an atheist, you believe your rights are from men. You must also reject, as a matter of principle, the DOI justification for Independence which assumes rights are from God and transcends the rule of kings.

Even so, what makes you think that the God they are from is necessarily the God of Bible-believing Christianity and its literal Genesis?

 

[Larniavc]

So why are you right and they wrong?

Are you honestly asking if it is not wrong to rape women?

Are you now, or have you ever been a monster?

 

[Larniavc]

LOL! There is no emergent property of social living.

Yes there is.

Air conditioning is an emergent property of social living.

 

[Ronald]

To Psycho Sara,

An eight year old painted this from a vision she had when she was four. She started seeing visions of heaven and Jesus and both her parents were atheists! Akiane Kramirik

The media twists things about reality as we have all seen. It's interesting how the boys father was skeptical about his son's experience and he would ask many questions about things he never taught him about but the boy seemed to know theology way beyond any boy could have attained at his age. He was curious, since he saw Jesus, what he looked like, so his father would keep showing the boy images, paintings from all eras and centuries of Jesus and asked. "Does he look like this ... is this him?" Todd would look and shake his head no. This went on and dozens of rejections came up. He then came across this story of Akiane and her visions and saw her painting - which is something a prodigy could only paint at her age. He showed his son, "Is this him?" His son looked and said yes, that's him!"

Jesus died and came back and over 500 people witnessed his ascension as well.

Btw, you are misunderstanding me. Most of us are insignificant, unimportant ... maybe to our families for awhile and then maybe the wisdom or fond memories last and stories are told, bla, bla, bla. You are right, God doesn't need us, if we don't accomplish what He wants, he'll get someone who will. But it's interesting how His plan is perfect and is right on schedule. All who have been written in the Book of Life are accounted for ... a few more to go. It works out to about 1/3 of the population of the world. There are about that right now, 2.3 -2.4 billion Christians and so "the gospel of this kingdom will be preached in all the world as a witness to all the nations, and then the end will come." Matt. 24:14 And that is the final sign of the end of the age, the return of Christ, The Great Tribulation. Scholars have agreed we have accomplished this in the last few years, the gospel has been preached throughout the entire world.
The common answer for purpose in life without God is contributing something to society and leaving something behind. I was refuting that idea and gave the reasons. My point was your gain in life and your loss, the importance to you. Don't you think it's a shame to lose all your life ... that it comes to an end, with nothing beyond? That's the futility of life without God. I'll take eternal life, thank you very much. Salvation is not to chance, since chance has no power, no influence, no message and is nothing. Salvation is a gift. He knocks on your door and if you open it, He comes in and sups with you. If you keep your door closed, that's not chance, that's your choice!
The meaningless deaths you presume may have some purpose you do not see or understand. The wages of sin is death and so it has it's consequences. But what if that person you think sacrificed his life for someone else and only to add to the list of dead actually went to a better place? Wouldn't that be a reward. Actually soldiers would be fools to risk their lives especially for foreign people in Afghanistan or Iraq, if they didn't have faith in life after death. Their faith propels them and gives them courage. When you believe, you perceive death differently. When someone close to you dies, you grieve differently, you aren't devastated because you know you will see them again.
Don't you want to see your loved ones again ... and forever?[/QUOTE]

 

[juvenissun]

If creationists promise to stop trying to wreck science education, then sure.

I don't think so. That is an easy excuse.