What is the end goal for creationists these days?

[DogmaHunter]

Being that creationism is a train of thought, I've provided evidence
that supporters of Creationism have advanced science greatly.

But not as a result of their creationist beliefs.
In fact, their creationist beliefs are about as relevant to these disciplines as the fact if they had mustaches or not.

Newton's laws of motions work, regardless of gods existing or not. Regardless of Newton's beliefs. There's no "god variable" in his equations.

Just stick to the facts, and you can relax.

Indeed, let's..........................................

ps: algebra was developed by muslims. ow no!!!

 

[DogmaHunter]

Wrong. It takes more than that to be a creationist.

Just saying... it's kind of hard to know about X before someone actually comes up with the idea.

 

[dmmesdale]

I’m going to go ahead and keep thinking rape is wrong and leave you to justify rape in whatever sick way you see fit.

You’re a perplexing advert for Christianity.

Your subjective judgments do not align with your objective reality. In other words, you go thru life with comfortable fictions in your head which is typical of a lot of atheists. I will ignore your personal attacks because I have come to the conclusion reporting is not something I will do anymore.

 

[dmmesdale]

There's no moral absolutes,

Then rape is permissible.

I'd even challenge you on having morals that are absolute.

It is wrong for men to force rape females. Females have a right from God to not be force raped by men. This applies to all females at all times because they are image of God and have rights.

I'm also interested to hear your reasons for why atheists position would bring about contradiction and consequences which most of humanity rejects too...

It sounds to me like you would not get it.

Let me wade in here (not that I'm answering for @Larnievc mind you...) - Every person has a right to their own body and what happens to it. This is subject to the capacity of that person to make informed (or capable) decisions to that end. So, pending some unforeseen extreme example you might come up with next, I certainly believe a woman does have a universal right not to be force raped - and for that matter, men also have that universal right, not sure if you intentionally made the distinction for women only... The guards in your Russian Gulag example you mentioned in the post I retrieved your quote from were wrong to do what they did.

On the one hand, you say there are no moral absolutes, and on the other, you assume moral absolutes.You believe every person has a right to their own body when they would not under your system and on the other you believe it was wrong for the Gulag guards to rape females when it was perfectly acceptable. You made assertions and have provided no objective basis for your claims. Because you have none.

All you have is contradictions, and they do not exist. You can't have it both ways. You assume your moral judgments take effect backward in time. News flash, they do not. All suffered the same fate. They died and ceased to exist. The strong dominated the weak. All that is perfectly acceptable with nature absent God.

 

[bhsmte]

Your subject judgments do not align with your objective reality. In other words, you go thru life with comfortable fictions in your head which is typical of a lot of atheists. I will ignore your personal attacks because I have come to the conclusion reporting is not something I will do anymore.

You know what thoughts he has in his head? That is cool!

 

[dmmesdale]

You know what thoughts he has in his head? That is cool!

He reveals them in his post. How hard can all this be?

 

[pitabread]

Then rape is permissible.

I've never understood how some theists go from, "oh, you don't believe in God?" to "YOU MUST THINK IT'S OKAY TO RAPE PEOPLE!"

Yeesh.

 

[Bugeyedcreepy]

On the one hand, you say there are no moral absolutes, and on the other, you assume moral absolutes.

lol! This'll be good...

You believe every person has a right to their own body when they would not under your system...

Why wouldn't they?

...and on the other you believe it was wrong for the Gulag guards to rape females when it was perfectly acceptable.

I just finished telling you it wasn't! How do you get to this far-fetched conclusion?

You made assertions and have provided no objective basis for your claims. Because you have none., All you have is contradictions, and they do not exist. You can't have it both ways. You assume your moral judgments take effect backward in time. News flash, they do not. All suffered the same fate. They died and ceased to exist. The strong dominated the weak. All that is perfectly acceptable with nature absent God.

You have that exactly backwards. Your God and his merry band of genocidal, raping, pillaging tribesman spent the greater part of the old testament doing exactly that! and They were wrong too!

See Numbers 31:16-18, 1 Chronicles 20:3, 1 Samuel 15:2-3, Isaiah 13:15-16, Deuteronomy 2:34, Deuteronomy 3:6-7, Ezekiel 9:5-6 just at the drop of a hat...

Now, as far as my morals are concerned, I have developed a subjective moral criteria against which I make objective moral judgements. That is to say, I accept things that help the health and well-being of humans to be good, and things that harm or kill humans to be bad. To a lesser extent, I can follow this same reasoning for animals, then plants, etc. there's also a hierarchy for humans too, I consider family and friends over strangers for example, so on. Once I have that moral framework in place, I can make objective assessments of actions against that framework all day long.

You on the other hand have to subscribe to justifying the barbaric and immoral carrying-ons of the old testament hebrews for which you want me to believe is somehow objectively superior to my morals. You're also the one in a contradictory position because underneath it all, you know you make subjective decisions to ignore the bible - unless you stone unruly children to death at the edge of the town still or stone people to death for working the Sabbath, etc?

 

[dmmesdale]

You have that exactly backwards. Your God and his merry band of genocidal, raping, pillaging tribesman spent the greater part of the old testament doing exactly that! and They were wrong too!

See Numbers 31:16-18, 1 Chronicles 20:3, 1 Samuel 15:2-3, Isaiah 13:15-16, Deuteronomy 2:34, Deuteronomy 3:6-7, Ezekiel 9:5-6 just at the drop of a hat...

Yeah we already know you hate God. All you did here was glean all this from some hate site like evilbible. You are not fooling anybody. If you wish to impress. Provide two explicit examples of force rape from the Bible and the resulting consequences for the rapists.

Now, as far as my morals are concerned,

Who cares? It is not about you.

 

[Bugeyedcreepy]

Yeah we already know you hate God. All you did here was glean all this from some hate site like evilbible. You are not fooling anybody. If you wish to impress. Provide two explicit examples of force rape from the Bible and the resulting consequences for the rapists.

...explicit?? I gave you a handful of scripture just then that described two! Let me quote for you...:

• Numbers 31:18 - "But all the women-children, that have not known man by lying with him, keep alive for yourselves."
• Isaiah 13:16 - "Their infants also shall be dashed in pieces before their eyes; their houses shall be rifled, and their wives ravished."

So, the end result for these rapists was.... well.... God's blessing? And finally, for good measure, some Levitical Law too:

• Deuteronomy 22:28-29 - "If a man happens to meet a virgin who is not pledged to be married and rapes her and they are discovered,he shall pay her father fifty shekels of silver. He must marry the young woman, for he has violated her. He can never divorce her as long as he lives."

In this case, the guy is down 50 shekels and has a wife for his trouble...

Who cares? It is not about you.

So that's a tacit admission you're not intending to challenge my moral framework then? Are you sure you didn't want to run those scenarios through my moral framework to see how it comes out?

 

[Bugeyedcreepy]

Yeah we already know you hate God...

I hate God about as much as I hate the easter bunny, santa clause, and for that matter, unicorns. i.e, I don't hate God.

 

[dmmesdale]

...explicit??

Yeah explicit and none of your examples are. I wrote explicit examples of force rape. Where force rape actually happened and the consequences.

• Deuteronomy 22:28-29 - "If a man happens to meet a virgin who is not pledged to be married and rapes her and they are discovered,he shall pay her father fifty shekels of silver. He must marry the young woman, for he has violated her. He can never divorce her as long as he lives." [/QUOTE]
  
• 
  
• This involves our understanding of statutory (totally different from force) in which the female is not able to give consent. Deut is 2nd law which presupposes 1st law which is Exodus. Spec Ex.22:16-17 involves seduction, not force rape.
• Exodus 22:16-17New American Standard Bible (NASB)
  Sundry Laws
  16 “If a man seduces a virgin who is not engaged, and lies with her, he must pay a dowry for her to be his wife. 17 If her father absolutely refuses to give her to him, he shall a]">[a]pay money equal to the dowry for virgins.
  
  
• That is why they have that never divorce clause in there. He is stuck with the female he seduces and it is all by the consent of the father. If the father does not approve the deal is off. Never married nonvirgins not marriageable in that culture. They had to be virgins.

If you look at the other examples (Dt.22) which you ignored. Cherry picking (again and again and again) you have death for adultery and force rape. That is why you guys do not know what you are talking about and neither do your sources. This lesson is free and you probably still won't get it!

So that's a tacit admission you're not intending to challenge my moral framework then?

This thread is not about your moral framework. It is not about you.

 

[bhsmte]

I've never understood how some theists go from, "oh, you don't believe in God?" to "YOU MUST THINK IT'S OKAY TO RAPE PEOPLE!"

Yeesh.

Some need to think that, to convince themselves, they have superior morality. Quite the crude defense mechanism.

 

[bhsmte]

Yeah we already know you hate God. All you did here was glean all this from some hate site like evilbible. You are not fooling anybody. If you wish to impress. Provide two explicit examples of force rape from the Bible and the resulting consequences for the rapists.

Who cares? It is not about you.

How does one hate a deity, they dont believe exists?

 

[pshun2404]

Scandanavia and other european countries, have much lower beliefs in god than the US and many have; lower crime rates, better education, better healthcare and lower poverty levels. I wonder if Jesus would be for; lower crime rates, education, lower poverty and providing healthcare for all.

Read Matthew 25...When Jesus taught these things it was politically radical to do so...when he taught that we are all one (ontological and social equals), that women were men's equals Socrates taught we should all own one and Plato that they they should all be held in common. A woman's testimony was considered foolishness...if she was raped it was her fault. Like socialist countries (as opposed to Communist countries) Jesus taught his followers to "share" all things in common...to feed the poor, heal the sick, house the homeless. and so on...that is how you can tell genuine followers from the fakes (like Donald Trump) you know them by their fruit!

 

[Larniavc]

You know what thoughts he has in his head? That is cool!

I know, right?

Telepathy is amazing.

 

[pshun2404]

Atheism in Russia runs to about 12-14% of the population. About half of the Russian people are Christian.

And most people, ruled by these atheists, live with a very low standard of living...which was the point.

 

[Larniavc]

I wrote explicit examples of force rape.

Do you mean legitimate rape (as popularised by Godly Todd Akin)?

 

[dmmesdale]

I hate God about as much as I hate the easter bunny, santa clause, and for that matter, unicorns. i.e, I don't hate God.

Right you hate God you do not believe exists. Also contradictions have free rent in your head.

 

[Speedwell]

And most people, ruled by these atheists, live with a very low standard of living...which was the point.

How do you know that it is the atheists doing the ruling? And what would it be like here with creationists doing the ruling? The full creationist political agenda is basically to give free reign to corporate oligarchy. How do you think the working class would fare under those circumstances?