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we are fallible. God isn't. We stumble. God doesn't. We are weak. God isn't. We are finite and but dust. God isn't.
Seek Him, not us.
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What is the Christian God's end game?
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we are fallible. God isn't. We stumble. God doesn't. We are weak. God isn't. We are finite and but dust. God isn't.
Seek Him, not us.
There are many texts and many translations. The "book" is really a series of many different books, written by different people in different times, with different purposes. We have no original texts. I couldn't read them, even if we had. I must rely on the best scholarship available to provide a vernacular translation. What I do read includes many incidents or stories describing horrific actions purportedly done by God.
1) This is a forum directly provided here for non-Christians to ask questions of Christians about Christianity. That is what I am doing. Are you suggesting that I should not use this forum to do that?
2) If you personally do not wish to participate, then you are free not to.
3) Human beings are the only ones who answer. So far, God has never answered a single question I have ever asked. Failing that, I thought I would ask the people who claim to know.
You may rely on it.
Precisely. I want to know reality.
I'll overlook this.
Of course. I am endeavoring to understand. Understanding is dependent upon evidence and mental capacity.
Perhaps. If it is not possible for Christians to know about and explain Christianity, then I do not understand the purpose of this forum.
No access to video, but thank you. If you can glean the answers to my questions and post them here, I would very much appreciate it.
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I have read some, but not all, of the Bible.
Do you agree with me that God is not "loving" toward all human beings?
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- Mar 23, 2004
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oh i do apologize, you did tell me you had no access to videos...
i certainly support your efforts to read the Bible, which is what God provides for all of us seekers (for i was once a seeker)...however it is not through man's words and misdirected thinkin'
he/she can convince someone they should ry Christianity out of their sheer power to convince, talk into, gettin another notch on their belt to feel like they've done it on their own and they are responsible for winning souls. They/we are not. It is the work of the Holy Spirit.
I welcome questions, certainly, but there is a limit as to my expreession of why i believe what i do. It depends most certainly on the motivation of the one asking.
It's not within my power to speak what only the Holy Spirit can speak. For the Spirit speaks to the heart. I cannot.
i certainly support your efforts to read the Bible, which is what God provides for all of us seekers (for i was once a seeker)...however it is not through man's words and misdirected thinkin'
he/she can convince someone they should ry Christianity out of their sheer power to convince, talk into, gettin another notch on their belt to feel like they've done it on their own and they are responsible for winning souls. They/we are not. It is the work of the Holy Spirit.
I welcome questions, certainly, but there is a limit as to my expreession of why i believe what i do. It depends most certainly on the motivation of the one asking.
It's not within my power to speak what only the Holy Spirit can speak. For the Spirit speaks to the heart. I cannot.
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- Mar 23, 2004
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and no, i'm not suggesting that you not ask questions. Your motivation in asking them is what i zero in on. If you are seriously seeking i will respond. If not, this will be my last post. You are welcome to PM me as well.
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ANM29
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Done many times. I don't know what else to say. Human beings make many promises on behalf of God.
Thank you for your compassion. THAT is the love I know ... one human being to another. Your sentiments are returned equally.
You are so welcome.
How about you let God reveal himself to you? He will.....
If you want to talk like Brinny said, you can PM me anytime. I am here for you.
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Bible2
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Greetings.
God wants to have some wicked members of his creation thrown into
everlasting fiery torment (Matthew 25:41,46) in order so that he
might be able to show his holy, righteous wrath against evil, and
make his power known (Romans 9:22).
The criterion for the category of the damned is unrepentant
disobedience to God (Romans 2:5-7). The criteria for the category of
the redeemed is faith in Jesus as the Christ, the Son of God (John
3:36, 20:31); faith in his death on the Cross for our sins (Romans
3:25) and his rising from the dead on the third day (Romans 10:9);
and obedience to him (Hebrews 5:9) and God the Father
(Matthew 7:21).
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Bible2
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In the context of God's love for elect humans, love means an emotion
of tender care which one being has for another (Romans 5:8,
John 15:13). In the context of the love of elect humans for God,
true love will entail obedience to God (1 John 5:3, John 14:15).
God doesn't love non-elect humans (Romans 9:13).
In Revelation 3:20, Jesus is referring to those who are already
Christians, but are lukewarm (Revelation 3:16), needing to let him
fully into their hearts and lives (Ephesians 3:17-19) by becoming
obedient to him (John 14:21-24).
God does know the way for elect humans to know him: through his
Son Jesus (John 14:6). He draws the elect to Jesus (John 6:44) by
giving them the miraculous gift of faith in Jesus (Ephesians 2:8,
John 6:65, Acts 13:48b) via their hearing of His Word (Romans 10:17),
the Holy Bible (2 Timothy 3:15).
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Bible2
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God doesn't have tender care for non-elect humans (Romans 9:13),
for they are not his children, but the children of Satan (Matthew 13:38-42).
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Bible2
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The ultimate point of the old round, as in this old earth, is God's
pleasure (Revelation 4:11), which includes ultimately saving elect
humans (Romans 9:23) and damning non-elect humans (Romans 9:22).
The point of the new round, as in the new earth (Revelation 21),
is to take the saved elect humans of the old earth to "the next level"
of the game, as it were (although it's not a game). And to create
a new race of humans (Isaiah 65:17,20) which can be elected and
not-elected as God pleases.
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Bible2
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Repent, in the original Greek, literally means to have a change of
mind about one's sins, from wanting to do them to not wanting to
do them, from thinking they're good to do to thinking that they're not
good to do. In a broader sense, repent means to turn away from
one's sins and make no plans to do them anymore.
Forgiven sins means sins for which God will not cast one into eternal
torment.
Forgiveness keeps sinners from eternal torment for their sins.
Jesus successfully manifests perfect obedience/sinlessness
(Hebrews 4:15b). And he gives that capability to his followers
(John 8:34-36).
It is possible for Christians to achieve perfect obedience (2 Timothy
3:17), just as Jesus achieves perfect obedience.
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Bible2
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Christians, if they want to, can achieve (by reading the Bible)
perfect knowledge of what obedience means in any particular
circumstance (2 Timothy 3:16-17) in which it is possible to know all
of the pertinent facts. And Christians, if they want to, can achieve
(by praying for wisdom) perfect knowledge of what obedience means
(James 1:5) in any particular circumstance in which it isn't possible
to know all of the pertinent facts.
The capability of Christians not to sin is manifested during periods
of time in which they don't sin (1 John 5:18).
Some Christians are actually able to go for periods of time without
sinning (1 Corinthians 9:27).
There are probably no Christians who don't sin at least every now
and then (Ecclesiastes 7:20).
Jesus never sins (Hebrews 4:15b).
All Christians have the capability to behave noticeably differently
from other humans (Philippians 2:15). But the point is to not look
to any Christians, but only to Christ himself (2 Corinthians 4:5).
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Bible2
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The eternal saved human beings will get to see and hear God in the
New Jerusalem on the new earth (Revelation 21:1-4), just as the
apostles got to see and hear God, through Jesus (John 14:7-9,
1 John 1).
When God gives assignments to the eternal saved human beings in
the New Jerusalem on the new earth, he will tell them what to do
directly, like one person talks to another now, and like Jesus talked
to his apostles at his first coming (Mark 16:15).
Christians-only should do anything God tells them to do (John 15:14),
for they alone know the true God (John 14:6, 1 John 2:23, 2 John 1:9).
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Bible2
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The individual, surviving manuscripts of Hebrew and Greek texts
of the Bible don't differ that much from each other; they all teach
the same doctrine (2 Timothy 3:16).
The Bible is really a series of many different books, written by
different people in different times, but not with different purposes,
insofar as all of the books of the Bible were written under the
inspiration of God (2 Timothy 3:16, 2 Peter 1:21).
We have no evidence, and so no reason to assume, that the
surviving manuscripts of Hebrew and Greek texts of the Bible differ
in doctrine from the original manuscripts. And true Christians can
recognize God's voice (John 10:27, 8:31b) in the doctrine of the
surviving manuscripts of Hebrew and Greek texts of the Bible
(John 8:47).
The Bible describes no horrific actions done by God; all of his actions
in the Bible (and out) are perfectly righteous (Deuteronomy 32:4).
Theological questions are answered by God in the Bible
(2 Timothy 3:15-17).
Any theological answer one gets from people must be checked
against what God himself says in the Bible (Acts 17:11b). This is
why some Christians place Bible references after many of their
statements.
True understanding is dependent upon the evidence of faith
(Hebrews 11:1) and the Holy Spirit (1 Corinthians 2:11-14), both
of which only elect saved people have received miraculously from
God. True understanding is not dependent upon mental capacity,
insofar as it is granted by God to children (2 Timothy 3:15). Those
who think that they have massive mental capacity, and take great
pride in this, must humble themselves as little children if they want
God to miraculously bless them with true understanding
(Matthew 18:3-4).
It is possible for Christians to know about and explain Christianity
(1 Peter 3:15, 2 Timothy 2:25-26), through what the Bible itself
teaches (2 Timothy 3:15-16).
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Indeed, people shouldn't beat around the bush and present God any less than what He actually does.
Many Christians use a thing called exegesis to adamantly stand behind the point their making. Yet when it comes to the following verse they have to explain around the method.
"I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things." (Is 45:7)
To put it simply the above would involve another discussion, but for the purposes of the end game it's also this: God takes ownership and responsiblity for all that He has created, basically the buck stops with Him. It's just like when an elected government official becomes responsible for an specific office or ministry. Some scandal happens which he had no part in actually creating, but he still is required to answer for it.
So why is God allowing for all those past and present day horrific actions to take place?
The verse just before 7 in Isaiah explains it, "That they may know from the rising of the sun, and from the west, that there is none beside me. I am the LORD, and there is none else."
Which seems rather foolish concidering people see these horrific actions that God commands and it does more to alienate them than draw them in. It's sorta like a scene within the comedy, "Monty Python and the Holy Grail". Where the knight charges into the castle to rescue a so called maiden in distress, slaughtering and wounding dozens to get to the prison room in the tower. Then finds out the maiden wasn't really a prisoner nor a maiden and he confronts the ruler of the castle there. He acts as if it was understandable under the circumstances, it was really just a silly little mistake. So he makes up with the ruler of the castle and shakes his hand as if nothing really bad ever happenned. Then he goes back the way he came in, sees the corpses and bloodied survivors and as if he only stepped on someone else's toe, says "sorry, sorry, sorry..." That what he did was just a very small and inconsequential error in judgement.
Indeed when it comes to end game. How will those Eygptians that He slew, the ones that were drowned in the Rea Sea "know that I am the LORD, when I have gotten me honour upon Pharaoh, upon his chariots, and upon his horsemen"? (Ex 14:18)
How can they ever become "Blessed is Egypt My people, and Assyria the work of My hands, and Israel My inheritance."? (Is 19:25)
Paul made an interesting statement in Romans.
For God has committed them all to disobedience, that He might have mercy on all. Oh, the depth of the riches both of the wisdom and knowledge of God! How unsearchable are His judgments and His ways past finding out! "For who has known the mind of the Lord? Or who has become His counselor?" "Or who has first given to Him And it shall be repaid to him?" For of Him and through Him and to Him are all things, to whom be glory forever. Amen. (Ro 11)
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